Open Carry odyssey from Del-Rio to Virginia

[rushcreek2]

According to Section 46.15, the MPA provision added to Section 46.02 in 2007(handgun in plain view inside vehicle) is NOT APPLICABLE "if traveling", and fails to negate the fact that 46.02 is nonapplicable -period - "if traveling" .

Nothing in Section 46.02 (a-1) serves to define, qualify, or otherwise limit the provision of section 46.15 (b-2) that "if traveling" 46.02 is nonapplicable.

The 900 lb gorilla in Texas establishing that OC is illegal is Section 46.035 (a) - failure to conceal a handgun by a CHL holder. No reference under Texas law pertaining to concealed carry applies "if traveling" UNLESS there's a valid Texas CHL in your wallet.

 

[Gunslinger]

The issue appears to be moot. Having a gun in your car under any circumstance is legal, per the bill Perry signed. Travel is no longer required. Out of the vehicle, OC is still unlawful.

 

[MR Redenck]

The issue appears to be moot. Having a gun in your car under any circumstance is legal, per the bill Perry signed. Travel is no longer required. Out of the vehicle, OC is still unlawful.

Wrong! Read the law your commenting on.

Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to:

(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

(2) is traveling;

(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

This means when " YOU DECIDE" your traveling you may carry a handgun without a license.
(3) means you can carry a hangun of any kind if you going to the range. If hunting you may carry the type used for hunting, " I still carry my 1911 because I carry that when im also hunting".
Taveling is not defind in the penal code so the law on traveling is silent! I exercise my traveling right when I simply go to the next town!
If I get arrested, then the fight is on. Any POS liberal court system that attempts to convict me of unlawful carrying under section 46.15 will get a fight they cant win!
The law is in Black and White. What some cop thinks doesnt matter, and how some libtard judge feels about traveling is worthless.
When the law is silent and does not define it, it cant be enforced.

 

[()pen(arry]

When the law is silent and does not define it, it cant be enforced.

When I was at university, my constitutional law professor asked the class, "Is there anything that you can't be sued for?" After a number of suggestions from members of the class, the professor answered, "No. You can be sued for anything. Whether the party bringing suit will win or not is irrelevant. Anyone can sue anyone (other than the federal government) for anything, and the better lawyers will likely win."

Similarly, any LEO can detain or arrest you under any pretense he or she pleases. Not only are there blanket pretexts they can use to justify their actions, such as "disorderly conduct" and "disturbing the peace", even if they have no excuse whatsoever, they will be successful in arresting you, meaning that they can "enforce" their every whim. The outcome of a legal dispute arising from the arrest is irrelevant to an LEO's de facto ability to deny you your freedom.

When a matter of law is in question, the determination of "enforceability" is retroactive with respect to the judicial determination at the end of legal proceedings. Even if a court determines that an LEO was in error when detaining or arresting for a particular reason, this does nothing, in and of itself, to stop LEOs from detaining or arresting you for the very same reason in the future. It merely colors future, succeeding legal disputes.

So, by all means, be the standard-bearer. Do not, however, presume that you won't lose a lot of time and money defending yourself because you consider the law to be on your side. Not only might it not be (a judge has unlimited power in his or her court room), but there is no legal standard requiring the remuneration of legal costs in Texas. Recovering them might be part of a settlement, but in Texas there is no statutory grant of legal expenses to an offended party.

Finally, realize that there is all but zero reason for an LEO to adhere to law. Even when they are egregiously in the wrong, and would, in a just world, be considered guilty of false arrest, they face almost no legal consequences, thanks to the standard and statute of qualified immunity (academically defined at the federal level, but universally applied at the state and local level).

 

[()pen(arry]

thanks to the standard and statute of qualified immunity

Oh, and the prosecutor almost certainly has absolute immunity, even when knowingly falsifying evidence against you.

 

[()pen(arry]

Oh, and the prosecutor almost certainly has absolute immunity, even when knowingly falsifying evidence against you.

And woe be to you if the prosecutor's office chooses to pursue asset forfeiture against you. The chances of you getting anything they seize back are nearly zero.

 

[KBCraig]

The issue appears to be moot. Having a gun in your car under any circumstance is legal, per the bill Perry signed. Travel is no longer required. Out of the vehicle, OC is still unlawful.

Being inside a car is not the only way to travel, you know.

 

[MR Redenck]

When I was at university, my constitutional law professor asked the class, "Is there anything that you can't be sued for?" After a number of suggestions from members of the class, the professor answered, "No. You can be sued for anything. Whether the party bringing suit will win or not is irrelevant. Anyone can sue anyone (other than the federal government) for anything, and the better lawyers will likely win."

Similarly, any LEO can detain or arrest you under any pretense he or she pleases. Not only are there blanket pretexts they can use to justify their actions, such as "disorderly conduct" and "disturbing the peace", even if they have no excuse whatsoever, they will be successful in arresting you, meaning that they can "enforce" their every whim. The outcome of a legal dispute arising from the arrest is irrelevant to an LEO's de facto ability to deny you your freedom.

When a matter of law is in question, the determination of "enforceability" is retroactive with respect to the judicial determination at the end of legal proceedings. Even if a court determines that an LEO was in error when detaining or arresting for a particular reason, this does nothing, in and of itself, to stop LEOs from detaining or arresting you for the very same reason in the future. It merely colors future, succeeding legal disputes.

So, by all means, be the standard-bearer. Do not, however, presume that you won't lose a lot of time and money defending yourself because you consider the law to be on your side. Not only might it not be (a judge has unlimited power in his or her court room), but there is no legal standard requiring the remuneration of legal costs in Texas. Recovering them might be part of a settlement, but in Texas there is no statutory grant of legal expenses to an offended party.

Finally, realize that there is all but zero reason for an LEO to adhere to law. Even when they are egregiously in the wrong, and would, in a just world, be considered guilty of false arrest, they face almost no legal consequences, thanks to the standard and statute of qualified immunity (academically defined at the federal level, but universally applied at the state and local level).

Mike, you hit some very good topics. Im not going to go into much detail about the " disorderly conduct and disturbing the peace" crap because I get very worked up on those issues.
LEO's in Texas arresting people based on their own pretense is as much of a violating of Constitutional Rights as Restricting a persons right to carry. In either case, it doesnt mean a person has done anything wrong.
I will leave you with another idea for thought.
Who do you get involved when local and state law Enforcement doesnt operate within the rights of citizens. I know some of those people and have discussed this railroading issue already. The law is written and I could care less what some cop thinks about my right to exercise it. Jail, been there done that several times. There is only one way to get case law.

 

[rushcreek2]

TEXAS LAW as presently WRITTEN , PASSED BY THE TEXAS LEGISLATURE, AND SIGNED BY A TEXAS GOVERNOR says that the Texas Penal Code Section 46.02 establishing the carrying of a handgun as a criminal offense DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU IF YOU ARE TRAVELING .

99.999999999999 % of us folks KNOW when we are "traveling". It isn't some unfathomable, mysterious concept far above the pay-grade of the average ANGLO-oriented inhabitant of these United States. When "traveling" most folks ....ahhh...maybe pack a bag...... a suitcase, change of clothes, ....an overnight case with toothpaste, tooth brush, deordorant, hair brush, etc. This is probably why the "intellectuals" presiding over the Texas courts have pretty much backed off from feeble attempts to define "traveling".

"If traveling" in Texas, and not otherwise prohibited, we may carry on or about our person- a HANDGUN nothwithstanding the provision of TPC 46.02 (a). This does not mean a person SHOULD necessarily OC that handgun in McDonald's - while enroute IF TRAVELING - anymore than a .30/.30, or an AR-15. "COMMON" sense hopefully clicks in at some point when armed.

There will probably be circumstances CONDUSIVE TO OC while traveling in Texas, just as there will be circumstances CONDUSIVE TO OC while traveling in COLORADO. Then again - there will also be circumstances where DISCRETION may suggest CONCEALMENT when traveling in Texas (which is perfectly legal with or without a permit/license), but NOT LEGAL IN COLORADO without a license/permit.

The beauty in Texas- presently at least- is that a license or permit is not required to carry concealed - if traveling - except for the inside vehicle/not in plain view provision. - Texas needs to keep it that way. Criminalizing otherwise lawful unlicensed concealed carry would be a mistake at this point - even if licensed OC was the price to be paid - for now.

You probably have to be just a little "bull-headed" to tackle OC. That's probably why some of us are so prone to engage in "sparring contests " on this forum.

 

[()pen(arry]

Mike

My name isn't Mike

 

[rushcreek2]

I have been a respectful "rabble-rouser" most of my life. When I determine to my own satisfaction that any agency of government is operating outside of its established lawful parameters - I invariably endeavor to "mow their lawn" as close to the ground as I can without "keeping up dirt" in my own face. I don't water "weeds" , and I don't extend a "live & let live" policy to encroaching fire ants.

Every "tug- of- war" over a period of time has winners and a loosers. This "tug- of- war" is still a work in progress. If your individual opponent is more powerful than you - you have to overcome that strength with superior persistence, innovation, and more effective application of effort, and tactics.

Even after existing handgun restrictions are relaxed in Texas, the contest will continue. It will never end. Then - just as in Colorado -citizens in Texas will have to deal with the preferences, "druthers", and individual "comfort-zones" impinging upon the free exercise of civil rights rather than the LAW.

 

[Gunslinger]

Wrong! Read the law your commenting on.

Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to:

(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

(2) is traveling;

(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

This means when " YOU DECIDE" your traveling you may carry a handgun without a license.
(3) means you can carry a hangun of any kind if you going to the range. If hunting you may carry the type used for hunting, " I still carry my 1911 because I carry that when im also hunting".
Taveling is not defind in the penal code so the law on traveling is silent! I exercise my traveling right when I simply go to the next town!
If I get arrested, then the fight is on. Any POS liberal court system that attempts to convict me of unlawful carrying under section 46.15 will get a fight they cant win!
The law is in Black and White. What some cop thinks doesnt matter, and how some libtard judge feels about traveling is worthless.
When the law is silent and does not define it, it cant be enforced.

That was my point. "Traveling" can now be from your home to the Walgreens, as it is not delineated by crossing counties or any other measure. An affirmative defense is "I was going to Waco, but changed my mind."

 

[Freeflight]

Also, just a side note...this is for Free Flight...I think the only way you were able to get by OC'ing without recourse was because of the small West Texas town mentality. Which is great! But...why did you avoid the big cities and cover your weapon in certain areas for fear of the cops being called if you felt you were in the right?

Desert Doc

In a word or two..

You are correct, I was left alone because of where I oced...

The answer is complex as to why I covered in the big cities, Mostly because I was traveling with the admiral (wife) and didn't want a big show down with some idiot big city cop.

and I was testing the waters, A little bit at a time...

I'm in texas now... I will be oc in Marshall, Lufkin, and on the way to DFW to fly back to Virginia.

Also will be heading back to del-rio OC All the way. Will keep you all posted.

 

[Freeflight]

According to Section 46.15, the MPA provision added to Section 46.02 in 2007(handgun in plain view inside vehicle) is NOT APPLICABLE "if traveling", and fails to negate the fact that 46.02 is nonapplicable -period - "if traveling" .

Nothing in Section 46.02 (a-1) serves to define, qualify, or otherwise limit the provision of section 46.15 (b-2) that "if traveling" 46.02 is nonapplicable.

The 900 lb gorilla in Texas establishing that OC is illegal is Section 46.035 (a) - failure to conceal a handgun by a CHL holder. No reference under Texas law pertaining to concealed carry applies "if traveling" UNLESS there's a valid Texas CHL in your wallet.

Nope, No Valid TEXAS CHP in my wallet....

 

[denwego]

Reading the last few posts here makes me wish I had gone up to Waco from Houston this weekend instead of staying in town. I haven't travel-OC'd in a few months now and I'm missing it!