SA-TX
Centurion
imported post
Hello all,
I throw this out to this esteemed group as the executive summary with the details presented later in the post: you can openly carry, in public, in Texas, right now so long as your firearm was manufactured before 1899 (1898 and earlier). :celebrate
I am NOT a lawyer and don't rely on me. Read it yourself or have your legal counsel do it. Legal and "not gettting arrested" are two different things. If you do this, you will probably get arrested. I don't do it because I don't want to be the test case. Police officers (almost certainly) and even prosecutors will probably NOT understand this initially. I doubt is comes up very often. The adage that "you can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride" applies! In the end, I think such charges would never stick but I'm admitting up front I'm not willing to chance it myself. That doesn't make is any less legal; I just don't have a wallet that let's me fight the government. :banghead:
DETAILED REASONING
The place to begin is at Penal Code section 46 which is entitled "Weapons". Here it directly from the State of Texas website at http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.010.00.000046.00.htm#46.01.00:
PENAL CODE
TITLE 10. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY, AND MORALS
CHAPTER 46. WEAPONS
§ 46.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(3) "Firearm" means any device designed, made, or
adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy
generated by an explosion or burning substance or any device
readily convertible to that use. Firearm does not include a firearm
that may have, as an integral part, a folding knife blade or other
characteristics of weapons made illegal by this chapter and that
is:
(A) an antique or curio firearm manufactured
before 1899; or
(B) a replica of an antique or curio firearm
manufactured before 1899, but only if the replica does not use rim
fire or center fire ammunition.
(4) "Firearm silencer" means any device designed,
made, or adapted to muffle the report of a firearm.
(5) "Handgun" means any firearm that is designed,
made, or adapted to be fired with one hand.
Notice the definition offirearm and thenhandgun which inherits from firearm. It certainly appears to me that if your firearm was manufactured before 1899, whether or not it possesses a knife or other feature (the word may is crucial there), it is NOT considered a firearm for the purposes of this section. To post all of the relevant sections would be unwieldy, so having posted the exact language of the most crucial section, I am going to resort to references. Using the link above you can access any of them.
Carrying a handgun is generally illegal in Texas because of seciton 46.02 Unlawful Carrying of a Weapon (UCW). There are exceptions in 46.15 and this is how peace officers and CHL-holders, among others,are able to do so. The key point is that Section 46 contains the key language that regulates weapons including how and where they can be carried.
If a pre-1899 handgun truly is exempt from all of the prohibitions of section 46, then there is no regulation of how or where you can carry such a weapon that I am aware of (with the possible exception of the "disorderly conduct" statute which I believe isn't serious problem but I can address itif anyone is interested). Why? Because you are exempt from 46.02 which says you can't carry a handgun and 46.03 which defines "Places Weapons Prohibited" as well as every other subsection of section 46! Forget all of the CHL stuff with 51% and 30.06 and court offices, etc. If your sidearm is exempt from all of section 46, none of these areas are prohibited by law. See above about getting arrested as the officer doesn't know this!
Bottom line summary (again, IANAL): section 46 contains all of the restrictions on carrying weapons (that I am aware of) and your firearm is exempt from scope of section 46. Given this, I don't see any restriction on how or where you carry. It is NOT a coincidence that a pre-1899 weapon is also not considered a firearm for the purposes of federal law. Any FFL should be able to confirm this. These are "antiques" and not subject to the usual procedures. You can buy one, across state lines, sent directly to your door without an FFL being involved. This MIGHT (I have NOT researched this) mean that national parks, post offices, etc. are no longer legally off-limits (to whatever extent they are now). The real point is that by carrying a pre-1899 firearm, you are exempt from many, if not all, restrictions not just from Texas law but from federal law as well!
My personal opinion is that having one or two pre-1899 handguns would be a good thing and just might save your bacon if you found yourself in a situation not covered by your CHL. Openly carrying them, while legal, will earn you a quick trip to the pokey and until there is a court case or AG's opinion confirming the legality of it, I won't do it but that doesn't mean others shouldn't know the option is available. Hopefully someone out there can slay that dragon for us. Anyone?
Thoughts?
SA-TX
Hello all,
I throw this out to this esteemed group as the executive summary with the details presented later in the post: you can openly carry, in public, in Texas, right now so long as your firearm was manufactured before 1899 (1898 and earlier). :celebrate
I am NOT a lawyer and don't rely on me. Read it yourself or have your legal counsel do it. Legal and "not gettting arrested" are two different things. If you do this, you will probably get arrested. I don't do it because I don't want to be the test case. Police officers (almost certainly) and even prosecutors will probably NOT understand this initially. I doubt is comes up very often. The adage that "you can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride" applies! In the end, I think such charges would never stick but I'm admitting up front I'm not willing to chance it myself. That doesn't make is any less legal; I just don't have a wallet that let's me fight the government. :banghead:
DETAILED REASONING
The place to begin is at Penal Code section 46 which is entitled "Weapons". Here it directly from the State of Texas website at http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.010.00.000046.00.htm#46.01.00:
PENAL CODE
TITLE 10. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY, AND MORALS
CHAPTER 46. WEAPONS
§ 46.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(3) "Firearm" means any device designed, made, or
adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy
generated by an explosion or burning substance or any device
readily convertible to that use. Firearm does not include a firearm
that may have, as an integral part, a folding knife blade or other
characteristics of weapons made illegal by this chapter and that
is:
(A) an antique or curio firearm manufactured
before 1899; or
(B) a replica of an antique or curio firearm
manufactured before 1899, but only if the replica does not use rim
fire or center fire ammunition.
(4) "Firearm silencer" means any device designed,
made, or adapted to muffle the report of a firearm.
(5) "Handgun" means any firearm that is designed,
made, or adapted to be fired with one hand.
Notice the definition offirearm and thenhandgun which inherits from firearm. It certainly appears to me that if your firearm was manufactured before 1899, whether or not it possesses a knife or other feature (the word may is crucial there), it is NOT considered a firearm for the purposes of this section. To post all of the relevant sections would be unwieldy, so having posted the exact language of the most crucial section, I am going to resort to references. Using the link above you can access any of them.
Carrying a handgun is generally illegal in Texas because of seciton 46.02 Unlawful Carrying of a Weapon (UCW). There are exceptions in 46.15 and this is how peace officers and CHL-holders, among others,are able to do so. The key point is that Section 46 contains the key language that regulates weapons including how and where they can be carried.
If a pre-1899 handgun truly is exempt from all of the prohibitions of section 46, then there is no regulation of how or where you can carry such a weapon that I am aware of (with the possible exception of the "disorderly conduct" statute which I believe isn't serious problem but I can address itif anyone is interested). Why? Because you are exempt from 46.02 which says you can't carry a handgun and 46.03 which defines "Places Weapons Prohibited" as well as every other subsection of section 46! Forget all of the CHL stuff with 51% and 30.06 and court offices, etc. If your sidearm is exempt from all of section 46, none of these areas are prohibited by law. See above about getting arrested as the officer doesn't know this!
Bottom line summary (again, IANAL): section 46 contains all of the restrictions on carrying weapons (that I am aware of) and your firearm is exempt from scope of section 46. Given this, I don't see any restriction on how or where you carry. It is NOT a coincidence that a pre-1899 weapon is also not considered a firearm for the purposes of federal law. Any FFL should be able to confirm this. These are "antiques" and not subject to the usual procedures. You can buy one, across state lines, sent directly to your door without an FFL being involved. This MIGHT (I have NOT researched this) mean that national parks, post offices, etc. are no longer legally off-limits (to whatever extent they are now). The real point is that by carrying a pre-1899 firearm, you are exempt from many, if not all, restrictions not just from Texas law but from federal law as well!
My personal opinion is that having one or two pre-1899 handguns would be a good thing and just might save your bacon if you found yourself in a situation not covered by your CHL. Openly carrying them, while legal, will earn you a quick trip to the pokey and until there is a court case or AG's opinion confirming the legality of it, I won't do it but that doesn't mean others shouldn't know the option is available. Hopefully someone out there can slay that dragon for us. Anyone?
Thoughts?
SA-TX