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Open Carry experience thread.

The Trickster

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Sep 21, 2012
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216
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Arizona
Brings to mind these gun shows whereby no one is supposed to bring in a loaded firearm, as is demanded by a plethora of signs. Disturbingly ironic that a gun show is a quasi gun-free zone.
 

azcdlfred

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Dec 10, 2006
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905
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Tucson, Arizona, USA
Was it a condition for entry into the event?
No. It was one of those things that didn't come up unless you asked the GRPC folks. Plenty of people open carried, but if someone asked ahead of time they were told that the hotel had a no open carry policy. If you asked the hotel they would say they didn't want open carry.

Litigation is the strong suit of SAF. They don't get involved in open carry activism and probably want to be low key about it at their conferences which are held all over the country. Most states don't have the open carry freedom we have in Arizona. I doubt if it even crossed their mind to demand it as part of holding their conference.

Since there were no signs posted prohibiting weapons (a trespassing issue in Arizona) I opened carried throughout the hotel. Saturday afternoon I was asked by GRPC not to open carry citing hotel policy. I wasn't about to cut off my nose to spite my face.

Fred
 
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azcdlfred

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905
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Tucson, Arizona, USA
Brings to mind these gun shows whereby no one is supposed to bring in a loaded firearm, as is demanded by a plethora of signs. Disturbingly ironic that a gun show is a quasi gun-free zone.
Gun show empty gun carry is more of a safety issue.

I worked the AzCDL table at gun shows throughout Arizona for several years and got a lot of "unloaded" guns pointed at me as folks picked up guns on dealer tables and waved them around while pulling the triggers. I'm of the mindset that there is no such thing as an "unloaded" firearm and that you only point guns at things you are willing to destroy.

And, bad things do happen at gun shows when "empty" guns are waved around. A few years back at an Atlanta show where all the guns were supposed to be empty, a gun on a dealer's table had a round chambered and fired and a kid was shot.

I personally feel less stressed when the odds of someone popping off a live round in a room full of hundreds of people playing around with hundreds of guns are reduced by the absence of available ammunition.

Fred
 

The Trickster

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Sep 21, 2012
Messages
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Location
Arizona
Gun show empty gun carry is more of a safety issue.

I worked the AzCDL table at gun shows throughout Arizona for several years and got a lot of "unloaded" guns pointed at me as folks picked up guns on dealer tables and waved them around while pulling the triggers. I'm of the mindset that there is no such thing as an "unloaded" firearm and that you only point guns at things you are willing to destroy.

And, bad things do happen at gun shows when "empty" guns are waved around. A few years back at an Atlanta show where all the guns were supposed to be empty, a gun on a dealer's table had a round chambered and fired and a kid was shot.

I personally feel less stressed when the odds of someone popping off a live round in a room full of hundreds of people playing around with hundreds of guns are reduced by the absence of available ammunition.

Fred

And then you have guys like me, whose .45 on his hip isn't for sale and won't be shared with anyone, who is expected to disarm because of other idiots. Sounds strikingly similar to the logic used by a group of folks we collectively loathe.
 

FreeInAZ

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Oct 15, 2012
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Secret Bunker
The world isn't a perfect place, sometimes the gains are worth "bending" with irrational policy.

While I don't agree with ever being disarmed, I do understand that at times, it is a price worth cautiously paying. AZCDL has over 12,500 members. Most of them as I understand it, were recruited at gun shows.
 
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The Trickster

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Sep 21, 2012
Messages
216
Location
Arizona
The world isn't a perfect place, sometimes the gains are worth "bending" with irrational policy.

While I don't agree with ever being disarmed, I do understand that at times, it is a price worth cautiously paying. AZCDL has over 12,500 members. Most of them as I understand it, were recruited at gun shows.

No argument there, though I became a member via learning about AZCDL through this forum and as far as I'm concerned, renewing my membership every year is money that is very well spent.

I've only been to the gun shows a couple of times and quite frankly, I didn't think it was worth my time or the fifteen bucks to get in. Last (and I do mean last) time I went was right after the Sandy Hook incident and, as expected, virtually everyone was overcharging for the same things that were available at normal pricing six months later. I also just ignored the disarmament signs and carried my loaded .45 anyway. Whoops.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Jul 12, 2011
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3,308
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northern wis
Brings to mind these gun shows whereby no one is supposed to bring in a loaded firearm, as is demanded by a plethora of signs. Disturbingly ironic that a gun show is a quasi gun-free zone.

I guess if every body that attends gun shows had perfect firearms handing skills as every buddy proclaims to have the signs would not be needed.
 

The Trickster

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Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
216
Location
Arizona
I guess if every body that attends gun shows had perfect firearms handing skills as every buddy proclaims to have the signs would not be needed.

Sounds like the same rhetoric we hear from the gun grabbers. After all, none of us would argue that signs/policies prohibiting firearms will stop criminals but somehow they will stop stupidity? I think it would make more sense to set the conditions so that guns that will not be handled, sold, exchanged, etc. are okay to be loaded but anything else is fair game.
 
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Liberty-or-Death

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23235
I thought the point of carrying was to be prepared, because we never know when or where we'll need to defend ourselves.

Sure, I'm insulted by the signs at shows, and I may zip-tie my OC to show it's unloaded, but isn't that really just security theater when the CC BUG is not unloaded?
 
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The Trickster

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Sep 21, 2012
Messages
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Location
Arizona
Do you plan to stop stupidity with your gun? Is a bullet your solution to a negligent discharge at a gun show? Have there been a lot of assaults, rapes or robberies inside your local gun shows? If you were armed and a careless gun owner at a gun show muzzle sweeps you with a gun that he picked up off one of the tables, are you going to draw on him? Shoot him? How do you expect to differentiate between the unloaded guns that can be handled and the loaded ones that can't? What do you do if a person offers you a really good price for your loaded and therefore "unhandelable" gun? What if you see just the gun that you've been looking for for years, but it is a loaded gun and therefore "unhandelable"? How do you convert these unhandelable guns into handelable guns so you can conduct business on them or do you just refuse to do so? Do you think someone there will "just snap" and start shooting people or do you contemplate a planned mass shooting at the gun show? Exactly, what scenario do you expect to defend yourself against inside a gun show. Is it just the possibility of some unknown and unpredictable "something" or is it that you just don't like to be told what to do?

You seem to be missing the point, which is that evil knows no boundaries and the point of carrying is to be prepared to meet that evil when it confronts us. Are gun shows the genuine, magical, and enigmatic gun-free zones that the grabbers keep talking about? Your what-if scenarios are reminiscent of the mostly absurd and emotionally-charged hypotheticals which are constantly reverberated by the gun grabbers except rather than applying them on the national, state, or local level, your borders are the perimeter of the gun shows. Well, "what if" nothing happens? I don't know about you, but I don't carry a gun to flaunt the fact that I'm carrying a gun; rather, it serves a particular purpose as a tool to be used under certain exigent circumstances and any of those circumstances could very well occur at a gun show. Maybe Obama will read your post and send you a PM lauding your, as he would surely describe them, "common sense" gun controls. :rolleyes::banghead:
 

The Trickster

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Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
216
Location
Arizona
I thought the point of carrying was to be prepared, because we never know when or where we'll need to defend ourselves.

Sure, I'm insulted by the signs at shows, and I may zip-tie my OC to show it's unloaded, but isn't that really just security theater when the CC BUG is not unloaded?

Someone gets it.
 

The Trickster

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
216
Location
Arizona

Using your implied logic, then why carry at all? Statistically speaking, the odds that any of us will truly need a firearm to defend ourselves/families is slim to none. Yet, those of us on here who do carry prefer to be prepared despite the odds. Well, except at gun shows, because nothing could happen there. :rolleyes:
 

Rusty Young Man

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Jun 19, 2013
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1,548
Location
Árida Zona
May I propose a solution? :)

Perhaps this sign would be enough notice to cover the liability side, and its enforcement could also help dissuade unsafe and/or reckless behaviour? Yep, double meaning there. :)
Alamo_Tactical_gun_shop_rules_02.jpg

Trickster, truth be told, I have the same problem with two gun ranges I used to visit in the Tempe/Mesa area of the state: Caswells and C2 Tactical (both owned by the same folks, the latter is newer).* Kind of the reason I stopped patronizing them, even when I am in the area. Seems like the bad behaviour of some is used to excuse the punishment of all. :(


On topic:
Have OCed at Fry's (various times), Bobo's Restaurant (cozy, always busy, and have some great food that the GF and I enjoy), Bookman's, Albertson's, Yogurtland (GF likes it, and I don't mind ice cream stuff), and several 7-11s around Tucson (still don't really like going there without a buddy to cover my back:uhoh:)

In Tempe (two weeks back): AM/PM gas station and Joe's Italian Ice. No issues, and I took a photo at Joe's that I will post later on to prove it happened. OCing there, I mean. :p

The usual glances (especially Bobo's, where some college girls pointed my carry out to their friends) and a few saucer eyes, but no problems anywhere. :) I keep expecting someone to scream, or for my sidearm to escape the confines of its holster and start shooting people as I watch helplessly, but it never happens? I suppose my 1911 must be super lazy. :confused:

Did have two people ask me what I was carrying: one at Fry's commented on my Kimber (I carry a Springfield) and how rare stainless 1911s were, reminiscing about how his grandfather had carried one. The second was a guy who was glad I carried and was trying to have his carry Rights restored. He even shook my hand right there in front of his children and better half... and the (unarmed) security guy who is always surprised to see that I'm OCing.
Both of these men were of Latino heritage, so I hope this is a sign that the antis' false claims of "only white men...yada yada... carry guns in public" are being recognized as such by the masses (I am Hispanic, for those who I haven't had the chance to meet up with).

There you go, two weeks of carry and the most "eventful" thing was a guy shaking my hand in front of his kids as a way to show approval of me carrying.

*Back story:
At Caswells I've been asked to unload my sidearm or leave, this after patronizing the place various times. Not saying she is a control freak or has less common sense, just that it's only been the elderly woman who says anything and is downright rude about it. The other staff have never said anything. perhaps due to the fact that I never unholster unless it is at the firing line and they've noticed it. C2 employees were greener in every sense of the word, but at least tried to remain professional and courteous about asking me to unload next time I visited.
Haven't been back since I decided to stay down here (behind enemy lines:p) in the Tucson area. I was fortunate enough to be invited to the Scottsdale Gun Club by FreeInAZ for the "Duel in the Desert" OC lunch and range day... where I learned to appreciate the Hi Point pistol, but that is another story.:p
 
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The Trickster

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
216
Location
Arizona
Perhaps this sign would be enough notice to cover the liability side, and its enforcement could also help dissuade unsafe and/or reckless behaviour? Yep, double meaning there. :)
View attachment 12826

Trickster, truth be told, I have the same problem with two gun ranges I used to visit in the Tempe/Mesa area of the state: Caswells and C2 Tactical (both owned by the same folks, the latter is newer).* Kind of the reason I stopped patronizing them, even when I am in the area. Seems like the bad behaviour of some is used to excuse the punishment of all. :(


On topic:
Have OCed at Fry's (various times), Bobo's Restaurant (cozy, always busy, and have some great food that the GF and I enjoy), Bookman's, Albertson's, Yogurtland (GF likes it, and I don't mind ice cream stuff), and several 7-11s around Tucson (still don't really like going there without a buddy to cover my back:uhoh:)

In Tempe (two weeks back): AM/PM gas station and Joe's Italian Ice. No issues, and I took a photo at Joe's that I will post later on to prove it happened. OCing there, I mean. :p

The usual glances (especially Bobo's, where some college girls pointed my carry out to their friends) and a few saucer eyes, but no problems anywhere. :) I keep expecting someone to scream, or for my sidearm to escape the confines of its holster and start shooting people as I watch helplessly, but it never happens? I suppose my 1911 must be super lazy. :confused:

Did have two people ask me what I was carrying: one at Fry's commented on my Kimber (I carry a Springfield) and how rare stainless 1911s were, reminiscing about how his grandfather had carried one. The second was a guy who was glad I carried and was trying to have his carry Rights restored. He even shook my hand right there in front of his children and better half... and the (unarmed) security guy who is always surprised to see that I'm OCing.
Both of these men were of Latino heritage, so I hope this is a sign that the antis' false claims of "only white men...yada yada... carry guns in public" are being recognized as such by the masses (I am Hispanic, for those who I haven't had the chance to meet up with).

There you go, two weeks of carry and the most "eventful" thing was a guy shaking my hand in front of his kids as a way to show approval of me carrying.

*Back story:
At Caswells I've been asked to unload my sidearm or leave, this after patronizing the place various times. Not saying she is a control freak or has less common sense, just that it's only been the elderly woman who says anything and is downright rude about it. The other staff have never said anything. perhaps due to the fact that I never unholster unless it is at the firing line and they've noticed it. C2 employees were greener in every sense of the word, but at least tried to remain professional and courteous about asking me to unload next time I visited.
Haven't been back since I decided to stay down here (behind enemy lines:p) in the Tucson area. I was fortunate enough to be invited to the Scottsdale Gun Club by FreeInAZ for the "Duel in the Desert" OC lunch and range day... where I learned to appreciate the Hi Point pistol, but that is another story.:p

I've also noticed that particular sign at Caswell's but haven't seen it enforced. In my opinion, I think it sends a poor message to people when you sell firearms and ammunition but don't want to allow the two in your very own store, even by the person to whom you just sold them. I've also witnessed it used as fodder by the gun grabbers on numerous occasions.
 

The Trickster

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Sep 21, 2012
Messages
216
Location
Arizona
I didn't write any "what ifs" and I didn't take any position for or against anything. And I certainly suggested no "gun controls", common sense or otherwise. I don't know where you read that, but I suggest you reread my post. You may have me confused with some other poster. I just asked for some information and your thoughts. So I just wanted to know how many deliberate shootings you have seen or heard about at gun shows and what danger you want to defend yourself from. Is it assault, assassination, robbery or rape? What danger are you concerned about? I know that there are dangers at gun shows, because I have seen them. There is danger from some gun show attendees being negligent in a room full of people, dangerously handling firearms, pointing firearms at other people, multiple muzzle sweeps and just general carelessness. Does the danger that you want to defend yourself from exceed the danger these careless and negligent people exhibit? I have never seen or heard of a deliberate shooting at a gun show or the need of a gun show patron to defend themselves with a gun at a gun show, but I have seen and heard of negligent discharges and careless handling of guns at gun shows and I just wonder which of these dangers you think is the most likely to injure or kill you or a member of your family. I have never been attacked at a gun show, but I don't know everything that ever happened at a gun show. I just want to learn from your experiences and find out where these things have happened and how often they occur. If there continues to be more negligent discharges and other careless dangers at gun show, how long do you expect it will be before there are no more gun shows to attend or that most reasonable people will refuse to attend gun shows entirely?

Actually, your rhetoric contained several what-if scenarios but if you'd prefer, we could rename them to hypotheticals. Or are you suggesting that you did no such thing based on the fact that you did not use the words "what if" specifically? Furthermore, as to your claim that you didn't take a position one way or another, your position on the matter is quite clear based on the context of the questions you asked and your dismissiveness of the desire for someone to carry a loaded firearm into a gun show; there's no need to beat around the bush and drop hints as to your opinion. What is this, a game of Clue? It was Gutshot in the Arizona forum with flaunted opinions which are never expressly stated yet easily inferred by his other favorite game: 20 Questions. Also, your logic whereby "...if anything has happened before, it can happen again and if something has never happened, it is unlikely to happen now," is silly. Using your logic, I have no need to carry a firearm since I have never been in a situation during which I would have needed it, nor should I have fire extinguishers or smoke detectors since I've also never lived in a home that has caught fire. Hell, I suppose I ought to drop my car insurance coverage down to that absolute minimum coverage my state allows since I've never been involved in a vehicular accident either. :rolleyes: And concerning your denial of being an advocate for gun controls, the mere fact that you are indirectly and not-so-cleverly patronizing my stance on the matter and as such, you clearly believe that no one should be allowed to carry a loaded firearm into a gun show is a form of a gun control.
 

OC for ME

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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,453
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White Oak Plantation
Using your implied logic, then why carry at all? Statistically speaking, the odds that any of us will truly need a firearm to defend ourselves/families is slim to none. Yet, those of us on here who do carry prefer to be prepared despite the odds. Well, except at gun shows, because nothing could happen there. :rolleyes:
I was clearly contributing to what gutshot posted regarding a mass shooting at a gun show.

The Trickster: ... I also just ignored the disarmament signs and carried my loaded .45 anyway. Whoops.
Your respect for the rights of a private property "owner" is noted.
 

OC Freedom

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Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Messages
646
Location
ADA County, ID
Someone gets it.

So do I.

I have been following this discussion and in this one persons opinion, TRICKSTER you are right about gun show carry. I stopped going to gun shows because of the no carry policies most have in place, besides the dang entry fees.

As for the "respecting private property rights" as OC for ME has brought up, this will open a whole new can of worms. If you have a business open to the public, a commercial property designed for profit generation, then restricting someones right to carry a Personal Safety Device is a form of discrimination for the owner is inviting the public to come. If a business now has to serve homosexuals, not a race based issue, then they should also have to serve personal safety advocates (open carriers).
 
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