OC no longer welcome at Pike Place Market

[MAC702]

They are drinking STARBUCKS....lol Which is funny since Starbucks is OC friendly...

Starbucks is not "OC friendly." They are completely neutral on the issue. Which is how it should be, of course, and what you meant; I don't mean this as a correction, just a clarification. We often call them "friendly" if they are unopposed, but Starbucks has gone on record saying they do not support either position. They simply allow it when legal and want to be left out of the debate.

 

[waynejr253]

Was it a Tactical Assault Stroller?

Its funny, I've never met u bill but I can see you pushing that along the streets of seattle or any street in this state.

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[Trigger Dr]

Well, Bill was an Army Tanker / gunner. I hope he drove the stroller a bit differently.

 

[gogodawgs]

Well, Bill was an Army Tanker / gunner. I hope he drove the stroller a bit differently.

Don't count on it!

 

[()pen(arry]

Well, Bill was an Army Tanker / gunner. I hope he drove the stroller a bit differently.

You don't drive a Stroller. You riiiiiiiide a Stroller.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Sounds like an impromptu, unorganized, leaderless, sterile-carry tour of the market by many people who don't know each other is in order.

Yep, well except they read these forums.

But this is a good idea.

 

[Freedom1Man]

I am thinking I will be drinking coffee/tea, at some time between 1200 and 1300 on Saturday at beverage serving place. If others would like to enjoy coffee at the same time in the same area, that would be fine with me. :idea:

 

[BigDave]

The Sequin case dealt with a contractual agreement between the city and a company wanting to have firearms sold, it did not address any issue of a private citizen being in possession of a firearm.

I believe this is still property owned by the city and group running it it's nothing more then a subsidiary of the city, not a private entity.

 

[GreatWhiteLlama]

I have to admit, I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this one. I've attempted to approach it from the direction that the security guard was correct, but it simply contradicts so many other situations that have been proven wrong. For example, the claim that because it is being run by a third party, the rules can be written by that third party. If that were true, wouldn't the Seattle aquarium be able to do the same? I believe gogo dealt with that exact situation not too long ago. Also, the streets would surely have to be a public thoroughfare because of the layout and acces to other public accommodations.

There are a couple other examples I can think of but I'm stuck typing on this smart phone which pisses me off. I'll write more later.

 

[jeeper1]

There are a couple other examples I can think of but I'm stuck typing on this smart phone which pisses me off. I'll write more later.

That wasn't a very smart thing for the smart phone to do.:lol:

 

[Jeff Hayes]

I have to admit, I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this one. I've attempted to approach it from the direction that the security guard was correct, but it simply contradicts so many other situations that have been proven wrong. For example, the claim that because it is being run by a third party, the rules can be written by that third party. If that were true, wouldn't the Seattle aquarium be able to do the same? I believe gogo dealt with that exact situation not too long ago. Also, the streets would surely have to be a public thoroughfare because of the layout and acces to other public accommodations.

There are a couple other examples I can think of but I'm stuck typing on this smart phone which pisses me off. I'll write more later.

If a third party was the answer why would the City of Seattle not lease out all the parks and city buildings?

 

[Vitaeus]

If Seattle transfers all the city property, then someone will likely have standing to show a pattern of behavior. The intent to subvert pre-emption would likey not sit well with them and would cost the city a fair bit of change.

 

[rapgood]

looks like I found the info I wanted, now to see how long it takes them to get me the same info......

The Pike Place Market Preservation & Development Authority (PDA) is a not-for-profit, public corporation chartered by the City of Seattle in 1973 to manage the properties in the nine-acre Market Historic District. The PDA is required to preserve, rehabilitate and protect the Market's buildings; increase opportunities for farm and food retailing in the Market; incubate and support small and marginal businesses; and provide services for low-income people.
PDA activities are governed by an all-volunteer, 12-member PDA Council. Council members serve as volunteers and are not compensated. Of the 12 members, four are appointed by the Mayor, four are elected by the Constituency, and four are appointed by the PDA Council. All Council members must be confirmed by the Seattle City Council and typically serve a four year term.
The PDA Council is the policy-making and oversight body that sets the direction for the activities of the PDA. The PDA Executive Director carries out the policies of the Council and directs the staff of the PDA. The Executive Director is appointed by and reports to the PDA Council. The PDA Council's policy-making and administrative oversight role is governed by the PDA Charter, PDA Rules and Regulations, the Historical Commission Ordinance, the Agreement with the City of Seattle for operation of the Daystalls, and City ordinances and state laws pertaining to the powers, responsibilities, and requirements of Public Development Authorities. The fundamental public purpose of the PDA is reflected in the PDA Charter. Read or download the PDA Charter.

I read it. I don't see that it provides the mall cop with any authority to prohibit OC. In fact, pg. iii specifically deals with disallowing any loss of control by the "public." Moreover, the charter specifically states, "The powers of the PDA are limited by state and federal law and regulations, ordinances of the City of Seattle, and other elements of the local regulatory scheme" (read: preemption). The mall cop was way off base (and he knew it). They want to protect the "public interest" while asserting "private rights" (which do not exist here). They can't have it both ways.

I sounds like the City of Seattle has hired the PDA to maintain the property in no way does that convey property rights, without property rights they have no authority to kick you out. This would be just like the lawn maintenance company telling you to leave the Capitol Grounds.

PNWSA only effects the tenant if you read PNWSA you will also notice that it says they may not make any rules or laws that affect the general public, since Pikes Place is open to the public without a fee they can not regulate firearms.

Even assuming for the sake of argument that they can prohibit OC in the stalls area (which I do not believe they can do), kicking you off the street was utterly without legal authority and was only in furtherance of some private agenda.

 

[Freedom1Man]

SNIP


Even assuming for the sake of argument that they can prohibit OC in the stalls area (which I do not believe they can do), kicking you off the street was utterly without legal authority and was only in furtherance of some private agenda.

And unequal enforcement as I was in about the same area on the same day.

 

[Jeff Hayes]

Even assuming for the sake of argument that they can prohibit OC in the stalls area (which I do not believe they can do), kicking you off the street was utterly without legal authority and was only in furtherance of some private agenda.

Agreed

 

[Flopsweat]

And unequal enforcement as I was in about the same area on the same day.

Maybe. I'm betting that there are additional criteria that must be met. I couldn't name them though.

 

[Bill Starks]

Issue Resolved !

Kelly Lindsay <Kelly.Lindsay@pikeplacemarket.org>	10:10 AM
to me

Mr. Starks –

Thank you very much for letting us know about your experience here at the Pike Place Market. We do honor RCW 9.41.290, and have reviewed this policy with our security staff.

I hope that the rest of your visit to the Market was enjoyable.

Best regards,
Kelly Lindsay


Kelly Lindsay
Director of Programs & Marketing
Pike Place Market Preservation & Development Authority (PDA)
85 Pike Street, Room 500 | Seattle, WA 98101
P: 206 774 5225 | M: 206 786 7317

 

[golddigger14s]

Good job, double thumbs up!!

 

[Stretch]

Way to get r done.

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[Knowledge]

Issue Resolved !

Nice!