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O.C. Vigils on January 8th?

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
Let me answer GoGodawgs question. There is only one gun control law that I don't have a problem with, it comes from california. If you leave a gun out and a kid gets it and hurts himself or someone else, the gun owner goes to prison for 2 years. I'm cool with that. And thats it. <snip>

How do the authorities know if you 'left' the gun out? How do the authorities 'prove' you left the gun out? What defines it as being left 'out'? Perhaps it was in a safe and the kid peaked over dad's shoulder too many times to get the combo? Perhaps it was in a strong box and the kid and his buddy broke into it? How old is the 'kid' in this law? 12? 14? 16? 17?

Your cool with a person becoming a felon (2 year sentence indicates felon) for something that at the outset of you presenting it is full of holes?

-------------------------------------

Eric and others, you did a nice job at the vigil. While I would restate, I personally would not attend this particular event, you did a very nice job. Perhaps I am wrong in my approach, but I would rather not unravel what OC has done in the state by taking a chance of appearing confrontational by the media.
 

dadada

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
112
Location
Edge of the woods
How do the authorities know if you 'left' the gun out? How do the authorities 'prove' you left the gun out? What defines it as being left 'out'? Perhaps it was in a safe and the kid peaked over dad's shoulder too many times to get the combo? Perhaps it was in a strong box and the kid and his buddy broke into it? How old is the 'kid' in this law? 12? 14? 16? 17?

Your cool with a person becoming a felon (2 year sentence indicates felon) for something that at the outset of you presenting it is full of holes?

-------------------------------------

Eric and others, you did a nice job at the vigil. While I would restate, I personally would not attend this particular event, you did a very nice job. Perhaps I am wrong in my approach, but I would rather not unravel what OC has done in the state by taking a chance of appearing confrontational by the media.

My guess is they would use the statements of the grieving parents. "I shouldn't have left it out...", "I only set it down for a minute...", "I didn't think they'd find it...". One more reason not to speak to an officer without an attorney. Attorneys make them prove it, your statements help them!
 

badkarma

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
333
Location
Duvall, Washington
It wouldn't be that hard to have our own event there. We can do exactly the same set up. Notify the media a month ahead of time once we have our permit. Invite the media to participate in the event. Have dedicated public speakers on an agenda. This isn't that hard to put on and I bet we could get more than 19 people.
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
It wouldn't be that hard to have our own event there. We can do exactly the same set up. Notify the media a month ahead of time once we have our permit. Invite the media to participate in the event. Have dedicated public speakers on an agenda. This isn't that hard to put on and I bet we could get more than 19 people.

The last 2 years we have had an event, the 2nd Amendment Rally, held in Olympia on the capital grounds. Both events have had several hundred people attend. The media has been invited, but we have had very little coverage. We have had speakers, singers, and other groups lined up and the event has been very successful.

There is some consideration for moving the event to both a different venue (Westlake...) and a different month (April) where the weather may cooperate more.
 

badkarma

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
333
Location
Duvall, Washington
The last 2 years we have had an event, the 2nd Amendment Rally, held in Olympia on the capital grounds. Both events have had several hundred people attend. The media has been invited, but we have had very little coverage. We have had speakers, singers, and other groups lined up and the event has been very successful.

There is some consideration for moving the event to both a different venue (Westlake...) and a different month (April) where the weather may cooperate more.

Your right. I totally forgot about them and had a conflict with the last one.

I think it would be nice to have it in the belly of the beast. You guys have addressed so many items regarding OCing(on public transportation, on city streets, in public and private businesses) that it would be great to exercise those rights in the most anti-gun city in our state. I also bet you get some HUGE media coverage. Eric has also started by planting the seed with the WCF group for an open discussion about gun violence.
 
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gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
Your right. I totally forgot about them and had a conflict with the last one.

I think it would be nice to have it in the belly of the beast. You guys have addressed some many items regarding OCing(on public transportation, on city streets, in public and private businesses) that it would be great to exercise those rights in the most anti-gun city in our state. I also bet you get some HUGE media coverage. Eric has also started by planting the seed with the WCF group for an open discussion about gun violence.

The media coverage is hum ho as to cover us. That is their bias.

I exercise my right to OC in downtown Seattle on a regular basis, and I post about it frequently on the South Sound and other threads. I have never had an issue in Seattle.

What 'open discussion' abut gun violence would you want to talk about with WCF? Their position is unreasonable and they will not budge on it, to think anything else is naive.
 

DEROS72

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,817
Location
Valhalla
I think some who are fairly new aren't aware of how many big events we have had.We had 80 at our willow lake last August our 4th and I gave away 2 guns. Dave Workman was at 2 of them and KING5 and and KIRO were at the first Last April we had our 2nd 2nd amendment rally on the capital grounds with senator Pam Roach as key note and Dave Workman talking from Pittsburg.We have been in the media many times already.As GoGo said we go downtown quite often.We met Rob Mckenna downtown.I have been OC to several tea party rallys there.Many have laid the ground work along time ago as I said I didn't think appearing at the anti gun rally would accomplished a lot. I do have issue with someone saying we will meet them half way and putting out there what seems to be a will to give in on some issues.No one I know is willing to negotiate away any of the rights we have.Personally I don't think giving the media the impression we are in favor of some controll is acceptable and does not speak to who we are. Did you change their minds? Again as GOGO said we had a lot of coverage at first and I invited them to all these events but we don't get the coverage of late because there is no contraversy.We had at the OCT 29th parks gun ban rally at Dinos resturant about 50 or 60 and KIRO and KOMO streamed it live.we Were covered on the Starbucks issue.I have talked to a couple others and will start putting things in motion for a rally at Westlake. It won't happen over night and those I talked to agree august would be good time.Better weather and closer to the elections.We will also pull in some of the those aready down town. Unless the anti's get support in the state house for any of their ideas ,then we may be ralling again at the capital for a hearing.Like we did at the assault weapons baan hearing..I am going to contact some of those we had at the past April 2A rally and see about participation.I also would like to have the Navy color guard like we had at the 2A.We have had alot of coverage and attention in the past but I would agree that A Westlake rally would be good.If any of you haven't seen the past news vids PM me and I'll send them.
 
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jsanchez

Regular Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
499
Location
seattle
Lets take a moment and reflect. Sunday could have turned out bad. I think we should all go over to the KOMO news website, look up the story, and leave a big thank you for being fair, giving us an even shot, for letting us tell our side. After they interviewed me I thanked them alot for talking to us, and thanked then for there past support and fair coverage that they gave Deros at all, and there have been alot of things that Deros has done, arranged, and planned that has made open carry what it is today, and gun rights in this state. I left those reporters feeling that they were the greatest thing since slice bread, because without them, our life could be harder.

It would be nice to do that to the Seattle Times article too.

One I want you all to study those three video's I put up. I want you to understand where the antigunners are coming from, why they are coming, and what is the fear that is motavating them. When you think you have the answer to those three questions post them.

You see if you understand what the problem is then solve it and we don't have to worry about anyone taking our gun rigthts away ever again.

Oh and the first one with the right answers gets $25 from me.

I will be posting the right answers in 48 hours, so good luck and may the smartest and quickest OCer win.
 
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FMCDH

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
2,037
Location
St. Louis, MO
SNIP...

You see if you understand what the problem is then solve it and we don't have to worry about anyone taking our gun rigthts away ever again.

...SNIP

See...
http://www.vcdl.org/new/raging.htm

Specifically, but not limited to...

Identity as Victim

If I were to summarize this article in three sentences, they would be:

(1) People who identify themselves as "victims" harbor excessive amounts of rage at other people, whom they perceive as "not victims."

(2) In order psychologically to deal with this rage, these "victims" utilize defense mechanisms that enable them to harm others in socially acceptable ways, without accepting responsibility or suffering guilt, and without having to give up their status as "victims."

(3) Gun owners are frequently the targets of professional victims because gun owners are willing and able to prevent their own victimization.

Thus the concept of "identity as victim" is essential. How and why do members of some groups choose to identify themselves as victims and teach their children to do the same? While it's true that women, Jews, and African- Americans have historically been victimized, they now participate in American society on an equal basis. And other groups, most notably Asian-Americans, have been equally victimized, and yet have transcended the "eternal victim" mentality.

Why, for example, would a 6'10" NBA player who makes $10 million a year see himself as a "victim"? Why would a successful, respected, wealthy, Jewish physician regard himself as a "victim"? Conversely, why might a wheelchair bound woman who lives on government disability NOT regard herself as a victim?

I would argue it's because the basketball player and the physician believe that their identities are dependent on being victims - not because they have actually been victimized, but because they're members of groups that claim victim status. Conversely, the disabled woman was probably raised to believe that she is responsible for her own success or failure.

In fact, many people who have been victims of actual violent crime, or who have survived war or civil strife, support the right of self-defense. The old saying is often correct: "a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged."

Special Treatment and Misleading Leaders

Two reasons for these groups to insist on "victim" status seem likely. First, by claiming victim status, members of these groups can demand (and get) special treatment through quotas, affirmative action, reparations, and other preferential treatment programs.

Second, these people have been indoctrinated to believe that there is no alternative to remaining a victim forever. Their leaders remind them constantly that they are mistreated in every imaginable way (most of them imaginary!), attribute every one of life's misfortunes to "racism" or "sexism" or "hate crimes", and dream up ever more complex schemes for special treatment and favors.22 These leaders are the ones who preach that the entire Black experience is slavery and racism, or that Jewish history before and after the Holocaust is irrelevant,23 or that happily married women are really victims of sexual slavery.24

Likewise, the NAACP is suing firearms manufacturers to put them out of business,25 and is especially opposed to the inexpensive pistols that enable the poor to defend themselves in gang-ridden inner cities. The Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) proposed evicting anyone who dares to keep a tool of self-defense in any of its crime-infested housing projects. Jewish leaders, especially those in the politically correct "Reform" branch, preach that gun control is "a solemn religious obligation",26 contrary to the teachings of their sacred scriptures and their own history.27 Law enforcement agencies falsely teach women that they are safest if they don't resist rapists and robbers,28 while women's organizations advocate gun control, thus rendering women and their children defenseless.

Victimhood is good business for organizations that foster victim status. As victims, the members depend upon the organization to protect them, and the organization in turn relies on members for funding and political power. In the interest of self-preservation, these organizations work hard at preserving hatred and bigotry and at keeping their members defenseless - and therefore dependent.

Anti-gun groups love victims!

From my observations, pro-victimhood is a feature of all of the anti-gun special interest groups, not just the ones mentioned here. Every organization that supports gun control apparently wants its members to be helpless, terrified and totally dependent on someone else to control every aspect of their lives. It doesn't matter whether it's a religious, racial, ethnic, political, social, or charitable group. From Handgun Control, Inc. to the Anti- Defamation League to the Million Mom March, they all want you to live in fear. In this scheme, soccer moms are "victims" just as much as are inner-city minorities.

If these organizations truly cared about the people for whom they claim to speak, they would encourage safe and responsible firearms ownership. They would help people to learn how to defend themselves and their families so that they wouldn't have to live in fear. They would tell everyone that one of the wonderful things about being an American is that you have the right to keep and bear arms, the right to defend yourself, and how these rights preserve the right to be free.

The psychological price of being a victim

In our current society, victimhood has many perceived benefits, but there are some serious drawbacks. Victims tend to see the world as a scary and threatening place. They believe that others treat them differently, unfairly, and even maliciously - and that they are helpless to do anything about it. This belief, that they are being mistreated and are helpless to resist, generates tremendous rage, and often, serious depression.

But for victims to show rage openly can be dangerous, if not outright suicidal. For example, a battered woman who screams at or hits her attacker may provoke worse beatings or even her own murder. And a person who successfully defends himself loses his status as "victim." For someone whose entire identity is dependent on being a victim, the loss of victim status is just as threatening as loss of life.

So, unable psychologically to cope with such rage, people who view themselves as victims: (1) use defense mechanisms to displace it into irrational beliefs about neighbors killing each other, and the infallibility of police protection, and (2) attempt to regain control by controlling gun owners, whom they wrongly perceive as "the enemy".

Keep your money.
 
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jsanchez

Regular Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
499
Location
seattle
After reading FMCDH answer, I feel I have recieved a SHOCKABOOKOO: A swift kick to the head that alters your concousness. Thank you for that.

And to answer GOGODAWGS question, ABSOLUTLY NOTHING!

FMCDH at least let me pay for the first round of coffee at our next East Side Meeting.
 

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
In the interest of fairness, he DID actually beat me to the Starbucks last meet. So did BoostedDreams!

A pox on that Starbucks for having such lousy parking. ;)

Wow, must have been a fluke. I expected Boosted to beat everyone, after all she lives just down the street from where the last one was. Wish I could have made it, I have an itch for some coffee :).

[/ThreadHijack]
 

Elimsitna

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
33
Location
West Seattle
I have an email out to the guys on the fatal injuries chart, cause I'm pretty sure if someone dies from vehicle exhaust(intentional or otherwise) its called poisoning.
 
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