Franky
Regular Member
Disagree. I believe Chowda just wants people to exercise common sense.
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NOT the way to Open Carry....
- Thread starter Interceptor_Knight
- Start date
Disagree. I believe Chowda just wants people to exercise common sense.
BB62
Accomplished Advocate
OC of longarms may not have helped, but I don't think it's fair to lay all the blame there.
Let's face it, SBUX never had warm and fuzzy feelings about ANY gun carriers (except LEOs), and when the "Appreciation Days" and counter-"Appreciation Days" put them in the middle, they looked for the nearest exit.
Interceptor_Knight
Regular Member
AR15s invoke alot of emotion for those who are not part of our gun culture. This emotion is strong enough to compel them to act against Starbucks. The antis are far more organized in the propaganda war than are we. They more readily act on perceived issues. Quite often, we are too busy arguing among ourselves to accomplish anything substantial. We can't even get ALOT of hunters and sport shooters on our side to support Constitutional Carry, how are we going to get antis to accept Open Carry of the most evil weapon on the planet in their eyes?
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
The antis do not fight among themselves as much as gun owners do. The problem with gun owners most only care about what is their personal bias or use of firearms. Many gun owners, unfortunately, are also anti firearm rights. They are probably also anti constitution, unless it affects them personally.
Interceptor_Knight
Regular Member
Unfortunately they are in denial. They are acting as antis and have no problems infringing on our 2A rights right up to the point that it would ban their 12ga trap gun or lever action deer rifle. Their line in the sand is so useless that all would be lost by the time things digressed to that point.
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
OK. You're right. It was the SADs, and not long gun OC per se, that led to the decision.
However, those non-regular OCers who stages the SADs were trying to attract as much attention to their gloating, nose-rubbing stunt as possible, and they irresponsibly carried AR15s in hand to ensure this result.
So, it wasn't the AR15s per se, they were merely the catalyst.
papa bear
Regular Member
if you will notice you can still carry in Starbucks. nothing has changed except the antis. both gun owners and non gun owners think they have won
common sense is anything but common. common sense is to allow carry of fire arms the very basic of born rights.
the way to get the sheeple used to a firearm is to let them see it. it is just like OC. very common a couple of decades ago. but then we started CC and sheeple lost the common sight of OC. we are now bringing it back. that is the very existent of the forum. a few decades ago it was common to see people carrying a long gun. hell in high school we commonly carried our hunting rifles, so to hunt before and after school
the ANTIs both gun owners and non gun owners are never going to like us they are eleutherophobes, that hate the freedom to carry, and freedom period.
if you are against OC, you are an anti
if you are for LE having more power you are an anti
if you are against how CC you are an anti.
if you are for registration and confiscation you are an ANTI
just for sake of the arguement. the evil black rifle, is nothing more then a semi-auto modern sporting rifle.if you believe it is evil then you are a victim of the leftist media propaganda
CHOWDA if you want a private chat room then you should pay for it. until then this is an open forum that i can say any dam thing i want, well until the moderators kick me off:banana::banana:
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Outstanding post! Great to see big picture thinking. I would truly LOVE to see the day when 30% of the average joe and jane walk around public places in wisconsin with a pistol on their belt...and no one would give it a second thought either to do it or when someone else does it.
Big picture.
http://nrawomen.tv/home/video/new-energy-trailer
Ain't you the professional victim. If it's not the government, then it's the cops, and now it's the moderators that are all out to get you.
Congratulations. You are the anti-firearm, liberal/progressive stereotype of the firearm community.
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
In my book, an "anti" is someone who wants to enact gun control.
Just sayin'...
Just sayin'...
Interceptor_Knight
Regular Member
It is precisely those victims whose minds we need to change through our own propaganda war. The way to change their minds and have them accept the AR15 is not by carrying them in public. Unfortunately historically doing this has inspired them to push for more anti legislation.
Yeah, nothing like putting something in someone's face to get them deprogrammed.
That nra trailer is an outstanding link and will do more to normalize firearms, and modern sporting rifles, than wandering around any shopping areas could ever.
I've been working with a few people who didn't like guns and didn't want to be around them. Little bit at a time and now they both are OK with them--and these people know me.
OC for ME
Regular Member
By definition a anti can not be swayed to our side. We must work to sway the ambivalent. I don't carry a rifle/shotgun on my shoulder unless I stop at a "country store" to get a coffee and a sticky bun on the way to a tree stand or duck blind. In that venue a rifle/shotgun is not "noticed" by the ambivalent.
The ambivalent do not notice our pistols and if they do they are more curious it seems than alarmed. Those are the voters I attempt to sway.....if they notice at all that is.
The goal is to not have the ambivalent vote for anti-gun legislators. Anti-gun folks will always vote for anti-gun legislators.
RR_Broccoli
Regular Member
Both the firearms discussed (AR-15 and 1911) have a failure mode where an acceleration spike (i.e. dropping or bumping it, but usually more like "slamming" it) on the muzzle can cause it to fire.
In the 1911 it's a weak or old firing pin spring of some models, and I think for very old models it's free-floating. Newer or upgraded ones the issue has been fixed, however a drop from as little as three feet onto a hard surface muzzle down can cause a 1911 to fire while on safe, and without the grip safety, etc. being activated. (If you own one, you should do some research on how yours works so you know the risks or make sure you have a TI firing pin and a good spring in it.)
On the AR-15, there is a free float firing pin that with a round in the chamber, could theoretically fire with a bump to the muzzle, and with certain types of wear and dirt, it becomes more likely. Likewise for chambering a round by pulling the charging handle and releasing the bolt / bcg. In a house when preparing an AR-15 for home defense, it's recommended to "ride" the bolt home and use the forward assist to lock the chamber closed.
As far as "walking around with it slung, bumped a tree and it fired" accidents, I don't know of any. Generally the "it just went off" stories are usually someone lying about actually having booger hooks on bang button. The risk of a vehicle coming off the roadway and running the pedestrian over is much higher. I wouldn't worry about it.
That said, it's rude to muzzle sweep someone period. Don't do it unless you are trying to be rude or engaging them in some way.
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
I agree, and from what I hear it takes considerable distance for a 1911 to discharge by dropping.
I have never heard of a AR discharging by being bumped. In heavy brush it could be possible for any firearm to be discharged by brush, but the person in question was not in heavy brush, not even near trees. AFAIK 1911 are inertia FP's. But to be fussy wussy I would not know if a carrier FP spring was in good condition. One of the aspects of the AR is the rotating lugs, that until they rotate the FP cannot reach the primer. And the action of the lugs decelerates the bolt, and the FP has already been pushed forward upon the lugs making contact with the matching lugs at the chamber. So it is unlikely even if the bolt were to slam forward, if being carried with bolt locked back, that it would fire. I don't know many people who carry a AR with the bolt locked back. Though some carry with a empty chamber because they were taught to in the military.
No matter which direction a firearm is pointed if it discharges it can cause injury. The only way to completely prevent such is outlawing firearms, which I am completely against, as the rest of us should be. These wild claims and stories that basically imagination and fears, gives fuel to Brady Bunch, and MOMS, and politicians. Over the past this is how we ended up with such brown laws to begin with.
Emotions have no place with old fashioned liberals and modern day conservatives. Common sense is not a trait that is exclusive to politics, though politics gets in the way of it.
IMO the person in the video was NOT sweeping anyone, that takes hands on the weapon. Otherwise it would be rude to carry period, and that just is not the case.
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marshaul
Campaign Veteran
You're certain about this? You were there, each time? Clothing or twigs never snags the trigger?
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
The holster did it... :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
Hah! I do agree with you, that was a dumb one.
Law abider
Regular Member
The holster did it...
And let that not be 'an act of God' either.
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papa bear
Regular Member
most would say i am "Paranoid", of course it ain't paranoid if it's true. the government IS out to get me, and the LE's job is to arrest people, anyway they can. so far i don't think the Moderators have had a problem with me. but if they do it is their forum, they can kick me off at anytime. i do talk to them in person from time to time.
don't really think you could call me an anti. since i think everybody should have a fire arm,and carry them, even long ones. true i am a liberal, boy you ought to see the eyes when i tell them that at VT and UV. but i am definitely not a progressive by any stretch. BTW do you know what a "progressive" is?
again i would point out that your name calling and trying to be insultive, just makes you look like a silly fool, and will make your words useless.
INTERCEPTOR, the hopolophobes and the eleuthrophobes are not going to be changed no matter what. they think you are demented for wanting a gun in the first place. but i will have to totally disagree with you on the hiding of your guns. the only way you are going to get the public to except the MSR, IS to let them see them and show that there is no reason to be afraid. it is just like the carry of a handgun. around here no one even looks twice at me, and i get a lot of positive comments when someone does see it.
historically the more people carry, the more the sheeple get used to it, the more lax legislation gets
i will bet you that new states like MS. will get used to it pretty quick and hopefully TX will not be far behind