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New obama quote regarding guns

Teej

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The Donkey wrote:
Thank you!

Fascinating:

So the President is -- under the 1968 law (by EO) -- free to ban the importation of any firearm not used in his opinion for a "Sporting" purpose, and the expiration of the 1994 firearms ban is irrelevant to this?
Yes and no.

Yes, the president has the authority to ban the importation of anything he wants. It has nothing to do with the "sporting purpose" test, nor the 1994 AWB.

An EO is only limited by what the president thinks he can politically survive and what the congress won't have the votes to veto.

The president could order the imprisonment of anyone not wearing a plaid shirt at midnight on April 1st.

Politically it would be a really bad move, and if congress could meet in time they would surely veto it...but until they do it has force of law.
 

tarzan1888

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The Donkey wrote:
.....So the President is -- under the 1968 law (by EO) -- free to ban the importation of any firearm not used in his opinion for a "Sporting" purpose, and the expiration of the 1994 firearms ban is irrelevant to this?

The President under the guise of Executive Order, is able to do almost anything he wants.



Pres. Clinton took away personal property and ignored government contracts with his executive order creating the Grand Staircase Monument in Utah some years back.

Mostly because Indonesia payed him to do so.



"Executive order
[/b]

U.S. Presidents have issued executive orders since 1789. Although there is no Constitutional provision or statute that explicitly permits executive orders, there is a vague grant of "executive power" given in Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution and the statement "take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed" in Article II, Section 3. Most executive orders are orders issued by the President to US executive officers to help direct their operation, the result of failing to comply being removal from office.

Department of State instituted a numbering scheme for executive orders in 1907, starting retroactively with an order issued on October 20, 1862, by President Abraham Lincoln. That order became necessary when Union forces captured New Orleans; Lincoln issued the order to establish military courts in Louisiana. Today, only National Security Directives are kept from the public.

Until the 1950s, there were no rules or guidelines outlining what the president could or could not do through an executive order. However, the Supreme Court ruled in Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, 343 US 579 (1952) that Executive Order 10340 from President Harry S. Truman placing all steel mills in the country under federal control was invalid because it attempted to make law, rather than clarify or act to further a law put forth by the Congress or the Constitution. Presidents since this decision have generally been careful to cite which specific laws they are acting under when issuing new executive orders.

Wars have been fought upon executive order, including the 1999 Kosovo War during Bill Clinton's second term in office. However, all such wars have had authorizing resolutions from Congress. The extent to which the president may exercise military power independently of Congress and the scope of the War Powers Resolution remain unresolved constitutional issues, although all Presidents since its passage have complied with the terms of the Resolution while maintaining that they are not constitutionally required to do so.

integration of the armed forces under Harry Truman and the desegregation of public schools under Dwight D. Eisenhower.

One extreme example of an executive order is Executive Order 9066, where Franklin D. Roosevelt delegated military authority to remove all people (used to target specifically Japanese Americans and German Americans) in a military zone. The authority delegated to General John L. DeWitt subsequently paved the way for all Japanese-Americans on the West Coast to be sent to internment camps for the duration of World War II. Thousands of German Americans and Italian Americans were also sent to internment camps under executive order.

Executive Order 13233, which restricted public access to information was more recently criticized by the Society of American Archivists and other groups, stating that it "violates both the spirit and letter of existing US law on access to presidential papers as clearly laid down in 44 USC. 2201-2207," and adding that the order "potentially threatens to undermine one of the very foundations of our nation."

Critics fear that the president could make himself a de facto dictator by side-stepping the other branches of government and making autocratic laws. See National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive signed by United States President George W. Bush on May 4, 2007 as an example. The Italian philosopher Giorgio Agamben in particular has criticized the generalization since World War I of the use of executive orders or decrees by all Western democracies, declaring that this tends toward the constitution of a "permanent state of exception." The presidents, however, cite executive order as often the only way to clarify laws passed through the Congress, laws which often require vague wording in order to please all political parties involved in their creation.

strike-breakers on the payroll. Congress may overturn an executive order by passing legislation in conflict with it or by refusing to approve funding to enforce it. In the former, the president retains the power to veto such a decision; however, the Congress may override a veto with a two-thirds majority to end an executive order. It has been argued that a Congressional override of an executive order is a nearly impossible event due to the supermajority vote required and the fact that such a vote leaves individual lawmakers very vulnerable to political criticism. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order_%28United_States%29



It would take laws passed by Congress to stop him and he can Veto them. It is very Scary.





Tarzan
 

Grapeshot

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Other types of executive orders are:Just imagine the opportunities that might exist here.

Critics fear that the president could make himself a de facto dictator by side-stepping the other branches of government and making autocratic laws. See National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive signed by United States President George W. Bush on May 4, 2007 as an example. The Italian philosopher Giorgio Agamben in particular has criticized the generalization since World War I of the use of executive orders or decrees by all Western democracies, declaring that this tends toward the constitution of a "permanent state of exception." The presidents, however, cite executive order as often the only way to clarify laws passed through the Congress, laws which often require vague wording in order to please all political parties involved in their creation.

Yata hey
 

longwatch

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JoeSparky

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The Donkey wrote:
Orygunner wrote:

The video is worth watching, because Obama is misquoted above:

He pledges to uphold 2A for self protection as well as sports,

And that he will not, and does not want to, take guns away from anyone but criminals and the mentally ill.

Then, referring to "your gun"he says:

"By the way, here's another thing you got to understand:

Even if I wanted to take it away, I couldn't get it done. I don't have the votes in Congress. . .

This can't be the reason not to vote for me; because your guns, we're not going to mess with them."

IMHO:

1. there is no difference between what Obama says about his opinions on guns in this video, and McCain's declared positions on guns;

2. what Obama says about votes for gun control in Congress is correct.:)


This comment is specific to the bolded and underlined portion...

So, he has polled the congressional members about this already? Seems like he isn't being truthful again.... but watching the video I did see his lips move when he talked so I shouldn't be suprised!:cuss::cuss::cuss:

That makes me even more afraid of him and for America if he gets elected.

Joe Sparky
 
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Huck wrote:
Not the only reason. Besides being anti second ammendment how about being anti-American, communist, racist, terrorist coddling, and totally unsuited to even be a community organizer let alone POTUS as reasons not to vote for nObama?

We need a leader, not someone who's only "present" when something needs to be done.


Would you happen to have... Say a link to back up your accusations? Didn't think so!
 

cccook

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Dukester wrote:
Would you happen to have... Say a link to back up your accusations? Didn't think so!
I've gotta hand it to you Dukester, this has to be the most palatable post of yours I've read. Quippy and succinct. I like it. Hope it's a trend.
 

Infidel

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The Donkey wrote:
The point: this entire topic is based on a misquotation of what Obama actually said.

You are welcome to disbelieveObama: approaching all candidateswithskepticism is a good idea. . . . ButtheDonkey is not moved whencommentators misquoteanyone to serve their own unique realities.

IMO, whatObama actuallysays about his policy position in the video is genuine.

BTW, I searched the anti-Obama site for evidence that Senator Obama voted against law abiding citizens having a CCW permit, and could not find anything to support this claim. Instead, it was mostly about what former DC DA Eric Holder might believe. Do you have the citation?

I'm not sure if he has or has not voted against CCW?, as of YET! However ho has voted against many rifles, shotguns, and handguns while in the Illinois Senate. This is the link for a ban he voted for, I copied it from the gunbanobama website. If you read the statute as written it bans any handgun, shotgun, or assault rilfewith a magazine!! Sorry that's not entirely true, you can have shotgun with an internal magazine OF NO MORE THAN 5 ROUNDS! I'm glad I don't live in Illinois, that would nix all of my weapons, but my shotgun!

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/93/SB/PDF/09300SB1195lv.pdf
 
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cccook wrote:
Dukester wrote:
Would you happen to have... Say a link to back up your accusations? Didn't think so!
I've gotta hand it to you Dukester, this has to be the most palatable post of yours I've read. Quippy and succinct. I like it. Hope it's a trend.

Who knows, I could be a changed man... ;)

But don't count on it!:uhoh:
 

1st freedom

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Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammo, July 2,2005 S.397

Obama voted for the prosecution of people who use firearms in self defense, March 25, and May 5,2004 Illinois SB.2165

Obama supports ban on gun stores within 5 miles of ANY school or park, one gun a month restrictions,mandatory training for ALL gun owners anda ban on gun ownership for anyone under 21 years of age.Chicago Defender, December 13, 1999

Obama voted against lowering Firearms Owners ID card minimum age from 21 to 18 so that our young military personal could own a firearm. Illinois Senate, March 25,2003 SB 2163

Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines. April 22, 2007 Radio Iowa

Obama supports Mandatory micro-stamping. February 15, 2008 Chicago tribune

" As President Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment". Obama web site

'I think that local jurisdictions have the capacity to institute their own gun laws, such as Washington DC and Chicago". February 15, 2008 Baltimore Sun.

So Donky,, as a supporter of the 2A and a gun owner, which of the above are you ok with?
 

The Donkey

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1st freedom wrote:
So Donky,, as a supporter of the 2A and a gun owner, which of the above are you ok with?

Add to the above that McCain:

:arrow:favors outlawingwhat Congress would decide should be called "Saturday night specials";

:arrow:favors mandating safety locks and/or secure storage;

:arrow:rallied Senate Republicans behind a Democratic measure requiring background checks at gun shows;

:arrow:has repeatedly supported closing the so called "gun show loophole";

:arrow:supported another bill that would prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of "armor piercing" ammunition, and set a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations;

:arrow:voted yes on The Hatch amendment that would increase mandatory penalties for the illegal transfer of firearms;

Donkey would say that none of the above are "ok."

The question is, how much does all of itreally matter given that: a. Presidents probably can't do alot of this stuff right now; and b. Presidents can do alot of other important stuff.

Thats why I am paying alot of attention to the posts by the experts above on what can and cannot be done by Executive Order.

Initially, I think that alot of this stuff would be undone by judges -- if not by the legislature -- if el Presidente decided to act alone.

But the limits of executive power here seems to be a complicated and difficult issue: so I am listening carefully . . . .
 

Deanimator

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The Donkey wrote:
1st freedom wrote:
So Donky,, as a supporter of the 2A and a gun owner, which of the above are you ok with?

Add to the above that McCain:

:arrow:favors outlawingwhat Congress would decide should be called "Saturday night specials";

:arrow:favors mandating safety locks and/or secure storage;

:arrow:rallied Senate Republicans behind a Democratic measure requiring background checks at gun shows;

:arrow:has repeatedly supported closing the so called "gun show loophole";

:arrow:supported another bill that would prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of "armor piercing" ammunition, and set a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations;

:arrow:voted yes on The Hatch amendment that would increase mandatory penalties for the illegal transfer of firearms;

Donkey would say that none of the above are "ok."

The question is, how much does all of itreally matter given that: a. Presidents probably can't do alot of this stuff right now; and b. Presidents can do alot of other important stuff.

Thats why I am paying alot of attention to the posts by the experts above on what can and cannot be done by Executive Order.

Initially, I think that alot of this stuff would be undone by judges -- if not by the legislature -- if el Presidente decided to act alone.

But the limits of executive power here seems to be a complicated and difficult issue: so I am listening carefully . . . .

1. I'm not a fan of McCain on gun control. Compared to Obama, he's Neal Knox. You didn't address the specific issues of Obama's voting record pointed out to you, ALL of which are FAR worse than ANYTHING McCain's ever advocated or supported. And that doesn't count Obama's support for:

  • A nationwide BAN on handguns
  • A nationwide BAN on concealed carry
2. I'm from Chicago. Obama comes out of the most corrupt political machine in the nation, with the most racist, corrupt, and brutal police department in the United States. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Obama EVER publicly criticizing the loathesome Chicago Police Department, or Mayor Richard M. Daley who was Cook County State's Attorney when that same Chicago Police Department had it's own functioning torture chamber which it used to extract "confessions" from suspects using suffocation, beatings, burnings and electrical shocks to genitalia. He doesn't seem like much of a "community activist" to me. Apparently "torture" against "unlawful combatants" is wrong at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, but just peachy against US citizens in Chicago. If he's got no complaints against how the Chicago PD is used against US citizens, will he run the FBI and the BATFEin the same way?
 

The Donkey

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Deanimator wrote:
The Donkey wrote:
1st freedom wrote:
So Donky,, as a supporter of the 2A and a gun owner, which of the above are you ok with?

Add to the above that McCain:

:arrow:favors outlawingwhat Congress would decide should be called "Saturday night specials";

:arrow:favors mandating safety locks and/or secure storage;

:arrow:rallied Senate Republicans behind a Democratic measure requiring background checks at gun shows;

:arrow:has repeatedly supported closing the so called "gun show loophole";

:arrow:supported another bill that would prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of "armor piercing" ammunition, and set a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations;

:arrow:voted yes on The Hatch amendment that would increase mandatory penalties for the illegal transfer of firearms;

Donkey would say that none of the above are "ok."

The question is, how much does all of itreally matter given that: a. Presidents probably can't do alot of this stuff right now; and b. Presidents can do alot of other important stuff.

Thats why I am paying alot of attention to the posts by the experts above on what can and cannot be done by Executive Order.

Initially, I think that alot of this stuff would be undone by judges -- if not by the legislature -- if el Presidente decided to act alone.

But the limits of executive power here seems to be a complicated and difficult issue: so I am listening carefully . . . .
1. I'm not a fan of McCain on gun control. Compared to Obama, he's Neal Knox. You didn't address the specific issues of Obama's voting record pointed out to you, . . .
2. I'm from Chicago. Obama comes out of the most corrupt political machine in the nation, with the most racist, corrupt, and brutal police department in the United States. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Obama EVER publicly criticizing the loathesome Chicago Police Department, or Mayor Richard M. Daley who was Cook County State's Attorney when that same Chicago Police Department had it's own functioning torture chamber which it used to extract "confessions" from suspects using suffocation, beatings, burnings and electrical shocks to genitalia. He doesn't seem like much of a "community activist" to me. Apparently "torture" against "unlawful combatants" is wrong at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, but just peachy against US citizens in Chicago. If he's got no complaints against how the Chicago PD is used against US citizens, will he run the FBI and the BATFEin the same way?

1. I am just not able to take the time to research every claim made against Obama regarding guns. Theclaim relied on above in this topic was an obvious misquote (read lie)that was designed to makeObama look bad by folks at the NRA who have no interest in being fair. But Obama and I obviously would disagree on issues, as I would with McCain. What is important to me is whether the disagreement matters. So much of the discussion about candidates in elections is static and is not at all important once they take office. (Remember Bush/Gore and the "Lockbox?")

2. Obama didn't really come out of the Daley machine, but was part of the reaction to theChicagoof mayor Harold Washington -- and just after --when gangstershad free reign in black neighborhoods, which were falling apart, not so much because of police brutality, but because of crack, lackluster policing, owner neglect and a general decline in city services. The idea that EITHER McCain OR Obama would put up with torture or the other kinds of crap you refer to from federal police fundamentally misjudges the kinds of men these candidates are.
 

Deanimator

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The Donkey wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
The Donkey wrote:
1st freedom wrote:
So Donky,, as a supporter of the 2A and a gun owner, which of the above are you ok with?

Add to the above that McCain:

:arrow:favors outlawingwhat Congress would decide should be called "Saturday night specials";

:arrow:favors mandating safety locks and/or secure storage;

:arrow:rallied Senate Republicans behind a Democratic measure requiring background checks at gun shows;

:arrow:has repeatedly supported closing the so called "gun show loophole";

:arrow:supported another bill that would prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of "armor piercing" ammunition, and set a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations;

:arrow:voted yes on The Hatch amendment that would increase mandatory penalties for the illegal transfer of firearms;

Donkey would say that none of the above are "ok."

The question is, how much does all of itreally matter given that: a. Presidents probably can't do alot of this stuff right now; and b. Presidents can do alot of other important stuff.

Thats why I am paying alot of attention to the posts by the experts above on what can and cannot be done by Executive Order.

Initially, I think that alot of this stuff would be undone by judges -- if not by the legislature -- if el Presidente decided to act alone.

But the limits of executive power here seems to be a complicated and difficult issue: so I am listening carefully . . . .
1. I'm not a fan of McCain on gun control. Compared to Obama, he's Neal Knox. You didn't address the specific issues of Obama's voting record pointed out to you, . . .
2. I'm from Chicago. Obama comes out of the most corrupt political machine in the nation, with the most racist, corrupt, and brutal police department in the United States. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Obama EVER publicly criticizing the loathesome Chicago Police Department, or Mayor Richard M. Daley who was Cook County State's Attorney when that same Chicago Police Department had it's own functioning torture chamber which it used to extract "confessions" from suspects using suffocation, beatings, burnings and electrical shocks to genitalia. He doesn't seem like much of a "community activist" to me. Apparently "torture" against "unlawful combatants" is wrong at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, but just peachy against US citizens in Chicago. If he's got no complaints against how the Chicago PD is used against US citizens, will he run the FBI and the BATFEin the same way?

1. I am just not able to take the time to research every claim made against Obama regarding guns. Theclaim relied on above in this topic was an obvious misquote (read lie)that was designed to makeObama look bad by folks at the NRA who have no interest in being fair. But Obama and I obviously would disagree on issues, as I would with McCain. What is important to me is whether the disagreement matters. So much of the discussion about candidates in elections is static and is not at all important once they take office. (Remember Bush/Gore and the "Lockbox?")

2. Obama didn't really come out of the Daley machine, but was part of the reaction to theChicagoof mayor Harold Washington -- and just after --when gangstershad free reign in black neighborhoods, which were falling apart, not so much because of police brutality, but because of crack, lackluster policing, owner neglect and a general decline in city services. The idea that EITHER McCain OR Obama would put up with torture or the other kinds of crap you refer to from federal police fundamentally misjudges the kinds of men these candidates are.
1. Feel free to tell everyone how much BETTER Daley's Chicago is than Washington's.

In which administration was there a home invasion ring operating INSIDE of the Chicago Police Department?

There have been weekends in Chicago THIS YEAR when more than thirty people were shot. You just about can't go to a large public gathering in Chicago without somebody getting shot. There is simply NO screening or disciplinary process inside the Chicago PD, NONE.

Tell me how city services have IMPROVED under Daley?

2. One more time, are you aware of ANY criticism of Daley OR his Tonton Macoutes in blue from Obama? I didn't think so. I think he'd tolerate a LOT if it got him what he wanted.
 

The Donkey

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For refutation, see:

http://www.obamapolitics.com/node/117

See also:

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/28/how_chicago_shaped_obama_a_look

"Obama joins a law firm that is sort of defined by its opposition to the Daley political machine. So, in other words, he was making a sort of a political statement.
. . . .

And it’s about this time that he starts to sort of look around for an office to run for, and that happens in 1995. He gets his first chance to run for office. And do you want me to—Juan, do we have enough time to sort of tell that story of his first run?

JUAN GONZALEZ: I think it’s—yes, it is critical, in terms of being able to understand how he forms his political vision, yes.

RYAN LIZZA: Yeah. So, what happens, it’s very interesting. He—1995, which, if you think about it, is really not all that long ago, there’s a woman named Alice Palmer, and Alice Palmer is a longtime local community leader, an education expert, someone with a lot of ties to the African American leadership of Chicago. Her husband, a guy named Buzz Palmer, he had actually started a reform group in the notoriously racist Chicago Police Department, a sort of group to sort of—of African American police officers. So, the Palmers were a family who had a lot of ties to the black establishment in Chicago. They were longtime activists, older than Obama.

Alice Palmer decides to run for Congress, and she decides to leave her—excuse me, she decides to leave her State Senate seat. And Obama decides that he’s going to make a run for that State Senate seat, since Alice Palmer is leaving. He starts going around to all of the key Democratic political operators on the South Side of Chicago and lining up support, and eventually he gets the blessing of Alice Palmer herself, and she endorses him as the replacement for her State Senate seat. And she goes off and runs for Congress.

Now, what happens is, she loses her congressional race very badly. She loses the primary to Jesse Jackson, Jr., who holds the seat to this day. She garners only about ten percent of the vote. And she decides that—she has second thoughts, and she decides that now that she’s forced—she’s, you know, looking at being out of politics altogether, she decides she wants her State Senate seat back. And a group of her supporters tell Obama that he now needs to back down, because Alice Palmer, even after she’s endorsed Obama for the seat, she’s going to return and represent the South Side in the State Senate again.

So, Obama is faced with this incredible dilemma: does he back down, does he bow to the support—to Alice Palmer and her supporters or not? And this really split—this just divided the political community on the South Side of Chicago in half. Some of the people who had backed Obama decided to go back to Palmer. Some of Palmer’s old supporters decided to stick with Obama. And there was a lot of pressure on Barack Obama to back down.

And what happens is, Obama decides to stay in the race. And not only does he decide to stay in the race, but he sends some of his political operatives down to the Board of Elections in Chicago to look at the petitions that Alice Palmer used to get on the ballot. They realize they’re filled with irregularities. They challenge these signatures. And Barack Obama gets Alice Palmer and all of his other opponents kicked off the ballot, and he wins his first race unopposed. . . ."
 
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Rattrapper wrote:
Mean while hanging out with known DOMESTIC TERRORIST WILLIAM AYERS, WEATHER UNDERGROUND SDS

He never hung out with Ayers, met him once see http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8630.html...

Besides during the radical time of the Weatherunderground Obama was kind of young, say 6 years old!

Kind of pales in comparison with McCains involvement in the huge Keaton-5 Savings & loan Scandal...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080613103202AAN1SCB

Surely defines the term CONservative doesn't it?
 

MetalChris

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Dukester wrote:
Rattrapper wrote:
Mean while hanging out with known DOMESTIC TERRORIST WILLIAM AYERS, WEATHER UNDERGROUND SDS
He never hung out with Ayers, met him once see http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8630.html...

Besides during the radical time of the Weatherunderground Obama was kind of young, say 6 years old!

Kind of pales in comparison with McCains involvement in the huge Keaton-5 Savings & loan Scandal...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080613103202AAN1SCB

Surely defines the term CONservative doesn't it?
How's that Kool-Aid tasting?
 
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MetalChris wrote:
Dukester wrote:
Rattrapper wrote:
Mean while hanging out with known DOMESTIC TERRORIST WILLIAM AYERS, WEATHER UNDERGROUND SDS
He never hung out with Ayers, met him once see http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8630.html...

Besides during the radical time of the Weatherunderground Obama was kind of young, say 6 years old!

Kind of pales in comparison with McCains involvement in the huge Keaton-5 Savings & loan Scandal...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080613103202AAN1SCB

Surely defines the term CONservative doesn't it?
How's that Kool-Aid tasting?

Don't know, how about you telling me? Facts to live by, its great watching McCain & Palin crash and burn.
 
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