Looking for a cheap handgun

[Leatherneck]

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Batousaii wrote:

For an inexpensive reliable pistol, i will tip my hat to the Makarov too. They are excellent compact firearms with respectable firepower. Double action, good safety, easy to use and maintain.

Let me add, there are models of the Makarov that have a tendency to cut your thumb open if you aren't careful. Some models took that into consideration in the design.

 

[oneeyeross]

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The pistols that do that are usually NOT Makarovs, but the Polish P64 and the Hungarian Pa63. Dealers often call them "Makarovs" so they can use the good name of the Mak without really having one, just because they shoot 9x18.

It'd be like calling a High Point in .45 ACP a Colt .45.

 

[Leatherneck]

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That's a nice little tid-bit I didn't know.
My friend told me about it, so I incorporated that into my search.

 

[oneeyeross]

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It's a common ploy among gun sellers. Go to GunBroker, AuctionArms, etc....type in Makarov and see how many are REALLY P64 or Pa63s. They try to call them "Polish Makarovs" or "Hungarian Makarovs" but they aren't.

The only reason it's an issue is that people try to buy parts, mags, holsters, & co., and can't figure out why parts don't fit....

Eh, salesmen.

 

[Batousaii]

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Leatherneck wrote:

Batousaii wrote:

For an inexpensive reliable pistol, i will tip my hat to the Makarov too. They are excellent compact firearms with respectable firepower. Double action, good safety, easy to use and maintain.

Let me add, there are models of the Makarov that have a tendency to cut your thumb open if you aren't careful. Some models took that into consideration in the design.

Yes true - i should have commented that it should say Baikal "made in Russia" on the side - thats the real deal.

Check it out: http://www.baikalinc.ru/eng

 

[Metalhead47]

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Batousaii wrote:

Leatherneck wrote:

Batousaii wrote:

For an inexpensive reliable pistol, i will tip my hat to the Makarov too. They are excellent compact firearms with respectable firepower. Double action, good safety, easy to use and maintain.

Let me add, there are models of the Makarov that have a tendency to cut your thumb open if you aren't careful. Some models took that into consideration in the design.

Yes true - i should have commented that it should say Baikal "made in Russia" on the side - thats the real deal.

Check it out: http://www.baikalinc.ru/eng

LOL interesting variety of products they make... guns, powertools, & medical devices :what:

 

[Dem0072]

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kchau wrote:

1. if you are planning on carrying, i dont understand why you would want to cut corners on something that you would want to trust your life with. personally i dont know many handguns under 250. and i would save up a bit more for a tried and true carry piece.

2. get a caliber you are comfortable shooting with, round size and stopping power has nothing when compared to shot placement. 3 well placed 9mm JHP's to the chest is going to bring down a bad guy just as well as 3 well placed .45 JHP's to the chest, and if you cant hit the target with .45, dont get .45

3. 3? day waiting period, background check. pretty much it. just get your CPL first. makes the buying process easier.

It's not necessarily that I want to cut corners. But I don't have several years of hundreds/thousands of rounds of experience with pistols. So in my mind, if I find something thats functional and competent, then I can begin learning on something without breaking the bank on it. (sort of like the first car principle) I've tried .45 so far, and its nice. I haven't compared it to 9mm, .357 or any of the other common calibers yet. But I hope to do so, that way I can find something that does work well for me. I'm thinking of getting my CPL before actually buying one, just to keep it a smooth process and to remove the complications of carrying in a vehicle (which is how just about everybody gets around these days, pointless law. Thank you for your quick response

Hammer wrote:

You can get a Hi-Point for cheap. I expect you could find one new for under $250, used for less. They won't win any popularity contests (beauty either!) but they are functional guns.
Caliber advice is get the biggest you can shoot accurately. I shoot a 10MM auto, and have for years. I got used to recoil at an early age and continue to practice with what I will carry in the mag.
How much handgunning experience do you have? Maybe we oughta go out and bust some caps sometime. I have a variety to choose from, .22 to .44 Mag and other fun stuff.
checked Gunbroker and here's a Hi-Point for $179.99 BIN
 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=171057050
Look around, they may be cheaper elsewhere....

Thanks for the recommendation. I like the price, it does look a bit funny but I've seen weirder ideas. My knowledge/experience consists of several articles, reading about the differences, exploring the design and feel of different models at the counter, I've shot 2 mags of .45 (one out of a sig 229 and the other out of a HK I believe it was). Then lastly theres all the wonderful video game hours logged (I usually stick to the ones that make an honest effort towards realism). Thank you for the offer, where are you located again?

Metalhead47 wrote:

<evil grin>


HI POINTS!!!

I'm probably known as the HiPoint guy around here (or more likely, "THAT <expletive> HiPoint guy) since I never miss a chance to throw my two pennies in on the subjet.  I've got four, two compact 9mms, a .45 & 9mm carbine, and these are wonderful little guns if you're on a budget.  Yes, THEY ARE HEAVY AND UGLY!  They also go bang every single time.  Several hundred rounds thru each of them without a single malfunction that was not user error.  They're built like AKs: simple, cheap, functional, low maintenance, indestructible (and if you do somehow manage to destroy one, or have any single problem what so ever with the gun, the factory will fix or replace it FREE FOR LIFE.  Shoot the barrel out?  They fix free.  Drive your truck over it?  They fix free.  Leave on the bottom of the Sound for a year?  They fix free.)

My Tanfoglio .45 is my primary carry gun now, but when I just need to run up to the store real quick I grab my HP 9mm in a Fobus paddle holster.  Heavy as it is, it's still smaller & lighter than the TF.

They are as accurate as anything else out there for self defense needs (it could be argued that since they have a fixed barrel, they are inherently more accurate).  Very simple blowback action, very easy to understand, easy to operate (only controls are trigger & safety).

As far as caliber, I like .45 better.  I find the 9mm compacts have "snappier" recoil.  Not uncomfortable, just seems more noticeable to me.  Also, the HiPoint .45 is, well, a BRICK.  I think there are rifles that weigh less than this thing.  That helps mitigate recoil, but it's a hard gun to carry.  I tried to carry it for a little while but gave up, it's just too heavy.  Makes a great nightstand gun/blunt object though.

I think I paid $150 for each of the 9mms, about $200 for the .45 with crummy lazer sight.  Buds Gun Shop in KY currently lists them for $169 & $159 (!) delivered, respectably. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/21_268  Discount Gun Sales (local place) lists them both for $199. http://www.discountgunsales.com/hi-point-c-716.html

If you need something for self defense AND still need to pay your rent at the end of the month, HPs make great lil guns.  They're not perfect, they're not race guns, but they are accurate and reliable, which is 90% if what you need in a gun anyway.

I'll throw this out too:  If you wanna try before you buy, hit me up with a PM and I'll be happy to take you out to my range out here on Whidbey and let you see for yourself.

Thank you for the information. From what I can tell 9mm seems to be just north of half the cost of .45 ammo. So being something to practice on, its nice to be able to have fun on $20 rather than $45. I haven't compared pricing on the 9x18 ammo but if its anything close to the same price as vanilla 9x19 then a Makarov might be a decent idea. I like the price of the Hi-Points, the Makarovs seem to be about $100 more on average. The main difference I notice is where the chamber ejects the brass on the HP c9 it looks like it would throw it immediately to my right. With the Makarov, it seems like it would eject it up and towards the right. The grips appear very comparable, the slide on the HP looks to be about 1/4-1/2" taller, but for the price its hardly a point of dispute. All in all the HP 9mm series for being under $200 MSRP doesn't look that horrible at all.

Also, you have you own range on Whidbey? That must be nice & convenient lol. How long is it?

tyguy808 wrote:

David is it?

Look into Taurus' Millenium PRO line. They have a variety of calibers (9mm, .38, .40 and .45) available for around 350 out the door. I own the 9 and 45, I love them both. Hit me up to try them out.

As for buying.... If you have a CPL its buy now, take home now. Otherwise there is a five business day waiting period. If you don't have it, go pick one out on a Sunday, its the shortest you'll have to wait (you can he shooting by the following weekend).

Thanks for the invite, I might have to take you up on it on one of these nice sunny summer days (which we're lacking this summer... ):banghead: ). I was reading up on another forum, a guy was saying his Taurus was having issues with hollow points and one of the problems might have been clip related but its probably a manufacturing blip or something similar. I see you're local in Bellingham here, which is a nice plus.


Metalhead47 wrote:

For the same price as what some would call a "real gun" you can get a HP and a few hundred rounds of ammo to become competent with it.  Hell, for the price of what some would call a real gun you could buy a small ammo factory.

Speaking of reloading your own rounds, what would be the cost of reloading 9mm and .45? I've seen a couple sources where you can get 50 rounds for about $15-$30 depending on caliber and quality, is it possible to have someone who does reloading push the price of pistol ammo down towards $0.15-$0.20 a round? Even if its just cheap lead bullets.


killchain wrote:

1. Yes. If you're looking for budget prices, I would go towards the companies Taurus and Hi-Point. Taurus makes quite a bit of popular handgun "clones", and Hi-Point makes about the cheapest handgun you will find.

However, most of the time price is what you pay for in a pistol. I highly recommend looking into an FN, Glock or Beretta. Models I recommend looking at are the FN FiveseveN or FNP series, a Glock 17, 19, or 26, and the Beretta PX4 or 92F series. Most of these pistols are going to run you $400-$550 new, depending on the pistol.

 A 1911-style pistol (made by Springfield, Rock Island Armory, Kimber, etc.) is very popular and would be a good choice if you wanted to draw form a wide base of users for advice. Half of the guys here either carry and/or own a 1911 style pistol (me not included. But someday!) The lowest 1911 style pistol I have seen was about $429 new. But models such as certain Kimbers can run as much as $1,500.

2. The 9mm vs. 45ACP debate is one I'm not going into, save that the 9mm is a smaller round going at ~1,400fps and the .45ACP is a larger round going about ~900fps (on average. Loads and stuff like +P rating will change this.) However, a 9mm pistol vs. a 45ACP will almost definitely have a magazine capacity difference, due to the larger size of the .45ACP round. You should try both at a gun range and make your decision there. You can have the ultimate round for the application and if you don't know how to shoot it, it won't work for you.

3. In Washington you will be submitted to a NICS background check, and fill out a couple of documents at the gun store counter. Any competent gun store will give you the documents (don't remember the specific names) and show you how to fill them out. If you have a Concealed Pistol License, you can do what is nicknamed "cash and carry" where if you pass the phone NICS check, you can buy it and leave right then. If you do NOT have a CPL, then you will have to wait a 5 business day period before you can pick it up from the store.

Hope this all helps!

Yes the information does help. What is required to get a CPL anyways? Sounds like it might be of advantage/less hassle if I went that route.

Though I've only fired .45 I'm almost leaning towards 9mm for the cost benefit and the factor that though I don't want a featherweight gun, some of the .45 options could be extremely large and burdensome if I chose to carry. I've fired a Sig P229, and it was a very comfortable feel, smooth too. But I don't believe Taurus makes a .229 replica do they?

nofoa wrote:

If your willing to wait for a good deal or a specific gun i always watch.

www.seattleguns.net

They are totally for private sales, very very little gun stores posting.  So you always get the fair reasonable prices.

Im buying a gun from a post this coming week.

Thanks for the link, I've bookmarked it What are you buying?

Mainsail wrote:

Visit Mary's Pistols in Tacoma.  Mary always has good used guns that were traded in.  You'll get good advice and the best prices around.

www.maryspistols.com

Thanks, bookmarked the link Tacoma is a bit south from me (almost 2.5 hrs) but if I ever needed something special it would be worth the trip.

Leatherneck wrote:

Batousaii wrote:

For an inexpensive reliable pistol, i will tip my hat to the Makarov too. They are excellent compact firearms with respectable firepower. Double action, good safety, easy to use and maintain.

Let me add, there are models of the Makarov that have a tendency to cut your thumb open if you aren't careful. Some models took that into consideration in the design.

I'll heed that warning about knockoff Makarovs. Actually met a guy (Veteran) that had part of his thumb taken off from an M1 Garand. Ever since seeing that one I have always aired on the side of caution of any mechanical part with lots of force behind it.

Batousaii wrote:

Leatherneck wrote:

Batousaii wrote:

For an inexpensive reliable pistol, i will tip my hat to the Makarov too. They are excellent compact firearms with respectable firepower. Double action, good safety, easy to use and maintain.

Let me add, there are models of the Makarov that have a tendency to cut your thumb open if you aren't careful. Some models took that into consideration in the design.

Yes true - i should have commented that it should say Baikal "made in Russia" on the side - thats the real deal.

Check it out: http://www.baikalinc.ru/eng

I'll keep that in mind, thanks

& thank you all for the very thorough discussion, I now have a solid place to start doing homework & field tests :celebrate

 

[Leatherneck]

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oneeyeross wrote:

It's a common ploy among gun sellers. Go to GunBroker, AuctionArms, etc....type in Makarov and see how many are REALLY P64 or Pa63s. They try to call them "Polish Makarovs" or "Hungarian Makarovs" but they aren't.

The only reason it's an issue is that people try to buy parts, mags, holsters, & co., and can't figure out why parts don't fit....

Eh, salesmen.

Okay, now I'm bummed.
I pulled mine out of the safe and... PA63.
PISSED! :banghead:

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

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Leatherneck wrote:

oneeyeross wrote:

It's a common ploy among gun sellers. Go to GunBroker, AuctionArms, etc....type in Makarov and see how many are REALLY P64 or Pa63s. They try to call them "Polish Makarovs" or "Hungarian Makarovs" but they aren't.

The only reason it's an issue is that people try to buy parts, mags, holsters, & co., and can't figure out why parts don't fit....

Eh, salesmen.

Okay, now I'm bummed.
I pulled mine out of the safe and... PA63.
PISSED! :banghead:

Don't be to pissed, you are not alone from what I hear. If people want to buy a military surplus they need to read, read, read and know what they are looking for and what to look for.

 

[Metalhead47]

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Dem0072 wrote:

Thank you for the information. From what I can tell 9mm seems to be just north of half the cost of .45 ammo. So being something to practice on, its nice to be able to have fun on $20 rather than $45. I haven't compared pricing on the 9x18 ammo but if its anything close to the same price as vanilla 9x19 then a Makarov might be a decent idea. I like the price of the Hi-Points, the Makarovs seem to be about $100 more on average. The main difference I notice is where the chamber ejects the brass on the HP c9 it looks like it would throw it immediately to my right. With the Makarov, it seems like it would eject it up and towards the right. The grips appear very comparable, the slide on the HP looks to be about 1/4-1/2" taller, but for the price its hardly a point of dispute. All in all the HP 9mm series for being under $200 MSRP doesn't look that horrible at all.

Also, you have you own range on Whidbey? That must be nice & convenient lol. How long is it?



Speaking of reloading your own rounds, what would be the cost of reloading 9mm and .45? I've seen a couple sources where you can get 50 rounds for about $15-$30 depending on caliber and quality, is it possible to have someone who does reloading push the price of pistol ammo down towards $0.15-$0.20 a round? Even if its just cheap lead bullets.

LOL not my own private range (not yet, that's Priority #2 when we finally buy a house), the Central Whidbey Sportsmans Asc, near Coupeville. Very low-key, informal place that kinda makes it feel like one's own. 7, 25, 50, & 75 yrd runs on the pistol range. Yes, the HP's eject directly to the side, so the brass won't clock you on the head like my wife's KelTec. On the two 9mms we have, one has a simple slip-on grip and the little "ghost ring" sight that HP includes, the other is "stock."

As far as reloading, once you've got equipment it really brings the cost down. A box of 250 45-cal plated bullets from Berrys mfg runs like $35 +/-, lead a little less. That's your biggest cost. Cast your own & you can shoot practically for free, but that's more work than I want to get into. Primers are $35-$40 per thousand, pound of powder (enough for about a thousand rounds, give or take) $20-$30. IIRC I figured I could reload a thousand rounds of 9mm for around a hundred bucks or so, .45 for a little more. The equipment can be cheap or pricey, depending on how much speed & convenience you want. I've got a Hornady locknload progressive, probably ran me around 500-600 for everything, but I can belt out several hundred rounds per hour if I really get my groove on. A basic single-stage press kit can be had for around $100, good deals on used ones usually (someone was giving one away free not too long ago). Will certainly get the job done and save you money, but you trade some time there. Be happy to show you my reloading setup too if you're interested.

Also, if you buy in bulk online you can save alot over the LGS for ammo. Cabelas has decent prices and every so often they do free shipping deals which really makes it worthwhile.

 

[Metalhead47]

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Sylvia Plath wrote:

Leatherneck wrote:

oneeyeross wrote:

It's a common ploy among gun sellers. Go to GunBroker, AuctionArms, etc....type in Makarov and see how many are REALLY P64 or Pa63s. They try to call them "Polish Makarovs" or "Hungarian Makarovs" but they aren't.

The only reason it's an issue is that people try to buy parts, mags, holsters, & co., and can't figure out why parts don't fit....

Eh, salesmen.

Okay, now I'm bummed.
I pulled mine out of the safe and... PA63.
PISSED! :banghead:

Don't be to pissed, you are not alone from what I hear. If people want to buy a military surplus they need to read, read, read and know what they are looking for and what to look for.

Bugger that, just go to your local Big 5, snag a 90$ Mosin-Nagant, & never look back

 

[Leatherneck]

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I got one of those in 1999. It needs the sights fixed, but it's fun to shoot!
Just saw it was one of the rifles used on TOP SHOT last night. I almost got proud for a second. almost.

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

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Metalhead47 wrote:

Bugger that, just go to your local Big 5, snag a 90$ Mosin-Nagant, & never look back

I like the way you think

 

[1245A Defender]

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my take!!
dont buy anything NEW,, untill youve shot lots of different guns, and know lots about them!!
study around untill you know what you like/want in a gun..
CDNN sports sells a CZ-82 in the catalog,, average condition, 12 rd. double stack,
double/single action,, in 9x18 makarov for 160 bucks!!
they have all the modern safety features, plenty of power, ammo is available about the same cost as 9mm luger.

 

[Metalhead47]

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Sylvia Plath wrote:

Metalhead47 wrote:

Bugger that, just go to your local Big 5, snag a 90$ Mosin-Nagant, & never look back

I like the way you think

No, I mean literally. You can't move anything north of the ribcage for a few days after shooting one of those :what:

 

[Bookman]

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Mainsail wrote:

Visit Mary's Pistols in Tacoma. Mary always has good used guns that were traded in. You'll get good advice and the best prices around.

http://www.maryspistols.com

Mary's is my 2nd choice for buying a pistol. My #1 is Federal Way Discount Guns (not to be confused with Discount Gun Sales). They generally undercut Mary's price-wise and are much closer to me (I live in Seatac).

My suggestion is to visit the shops and look for a good used handgun that feels good to you; and don't forget the pawn shops, either.

 

[k.rollin]

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My typical recommendation is to buy the largest gun you can possibly use in your application as it minimizes perceived recoil, and to buy a firearm in the largest caliber that you can shoot comfortably and accurately. However, since you are on a budget, I would suggest going for a 9mm because the ammunition is cheaper, meaning more practice ammo.

As for specific guns on a budget, try to find police trade-ins. They are usually reasonably priced and haven't seen much use, just holster wear. Former PD Glocks can be had for $300 on up, and right now on AIM Surplus, you can find police trade-in Smith & Wesson 5906s for $329.95. Surplus handguns are also a good option and can be had for $250 or less. Aim has CZ-82s for $220 and Polish P-83 Wanads for $200. Both use the 9x18mm Makarov round.

 

[Metalhead47]

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Not to get off on a tangent (like that ever happens around here :uhoh, I see the 9x18 Makarov round being thrown around alot on this thread. I've read a couple of things that say it's behind even the .380 in terms of performance. Thoughts on this?

 

[k.rollin]

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Metalhead47 wrote:

Not to get off on a tangent (like that ever happens around here :uhoh, I see the 9x18 Makarov round being thrown around alot on this thread. I've read a couple of things that say it's behind even the .380 in terms of performance. Thoughts on this?

.380 ACP and 9x18 Makarov may not be ideal for self defense, but any gun is better than no gun. However, both rounds ought to suffice when carrying as long as the weapon is loaded with FMJs as they will penetrate better than JHPs in the same round. In my earlier post, I was careful to note that my weapon/caliber recommendations weren't inline with my typical advice because cost was a limiting factor.

Edited to correct the auto-correct feature on my iPod, which often inserts the wrong word while typing quickly.

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

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k.rollin wrote:

.380 ACP and 9x18 Makarov may not be ideal for self defense, but any gun is better than no gun.

This is an redundant as the .45 v. 9mm aguement. Placement of shot is paramount. Consider the reality that each perp respondes differently to being shot, regardless the caliber.