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Lawsuit filed for illegal open carry stop of forum member RCall

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
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Aug 17, 2006
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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
...Should, under the law, have Roy cooperated?...

...Should, as a matter of practicality, have Roy cooperated? Yes, to an extent...
What is cooperation, and did Roy Call cooperate or not? How do we really know?

No shot at you, but I just want to point out for those who may not have followed this matter closely that except for the fairy tale (I mean police report) Sgt. Jones and his partner-in-crime wrote, the incomplete videotape of the encounter, and the text of the lawsuit (which in itself is not a full description) there is no definitive information I've seen in the public realm or is a result of depositions or testimony about just what ACTUALLY happened between Call and the officers.

I believe there are LOTS of suspect things about the whole matter, which is why I've encouraged people (especially LOCAL people) to do some records requests about things they find troubling/conflicting - then post the results. I keep hoping...

IMHO, the media at all levels has put out biased and inaccurate information, and they sure as heck aren't going to do the digging that ought to be done.

Ohio's sunshine law is a REALLY nice tool to turn up information which can then be delivered to and publicized regarding the bias, dishonesty and laziness which exists in the media.
 

eye95

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Messages
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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Eventually, he did cooperate--at least to an extent.

At one point he did not cooperate fully. (It turns out he was under no legal obligation to do so, as the stop was unlawful.)

Both of the above are documented on the tape.

However, that is all beside the point I was endeavoring to make. The point of my post was: Even if we don't legally have to identify ourselves when stopped solely for OC, we should anyway. We should do so because, at the time of the stop, we have no way of being certain that the stop is not lawful.
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
My rule is to consider every stop by a cop as a lawful detention. I immediately ask if I am free to leave. I await a answer.

1. If I receive a affirmative response, I extend a heart felt "good day to you officer" and leave.

2. If no affirmative response to my question is forthcoming, or I receive deflection or obfuscation, I am being detained.

3. While detained I do not consent to any search or any seizure, I also do not provide any identification documents. I provide my name and address only to avoid a charge of "failure to obey."

4. Citizen believe we must provide a identification document, no where does it state that a citizen must provide a identification document. Driving a car is different. I will not going down that road again.

SECTION 210.145: FAILURE TO OBEY POLICE

It shall be unlawful for any person to willfully and knowingly fail to obey a lawful command of any Police Officer of the City duly authorized in executing or attempting to execute and carry into effect any provision of this Code or other ordinance or order passed or made by the proper authorities of this City, or in serving or attempting to serve any legal writ, warrant, process or order issued by the Mayor or other officer of the City. (R.O. 2006 §210.020; CC 1988 §15-16; Ord. No. 347 §20, 7-2-63; Ord. No. 355 §7-504, 1-8-64)
One of those lawful commands may be to provide identifying information.

Unfortunately the lawfulness of the command will only be determined later, in court.

Example from experience:

Background: A neighbor's daughter was giving my son and her brother a ride home from middle school. She turned into traffic and hit a vehicle (fender bender, no injuries). I got a call from my son and went to pick them both up. I greeted the cop, freely provided my name and relationship to the occupants. We even shook hands. I checked on all threes health then directed them to get their things and ask the officer for permission to ride home with me. I then backed away from the immediate area to my truck and waited for the boys to gather their belongings and get into my truck. The cop then approaches me and the following exchange takes place.

Cop: Excuse me sir, could I see your ID?
Me: Am I being detained officer?
Cop: No sir, I just need to see your ID because you are taking those two boys.
Me: Was not me providing my name, and my son and his friend confirming my identity sufficient to justify my "taking" those two boys with me?
Cop: Well, we have a policy to request ID in this type of situation.
Me: I understand officer. As much as I desire to assist you, and depart your accident scene with my son and his friend, I respectfully request that a supervisor be summoned.
Cop: That will not be necessary sir, asking for ID is nothing more than a matter of policy, you understand. We don't want children to be taken by unsavory types.
Me: With all due respect officer, your request is unlawful, especially so after I identified myself and those two boys asked you for permission to depart with me, which you gave. Unless you can justify the lawfulness of your command, now or later, I will be on my way or I will await your supervisor to determine the next step in this process.
Cop: (looks peeved) You are free to go.
Me: Thank you officer.
Cop: (walking away) Thanks, have a good day.

I later stopped by the station and requested a brief chat with the chief or assistant chief. I was granted a audience and related my praise for that officer's professionalism and efficiency. I also related my concern regarding the departments' higher-ups training their officers to apply policy that is clearly beyond the scope of the law.

The gravity of that situation was very minor, the implications of that situation are very profound. I am very fond of resolving minor issues at the lowest level possible. This approach rarely results in bruised egos.
 

NeverHere

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Jan 11, 2014
Messages
6
Location
Dayton, Ohio
Question(s)

I noticed someone had mentioned Randolph Township and Sgt. Jones. But no one has any other information. When I try to do a google search for Randolph Township and Sgt. Jones, I get nothing.
Does anyone know precisely when this happened, what happened and why and which state Randolph Township is in? And if possible, how to find the specific information on what happened with Sgt. Jones in regard to Randolph Township.

Also does a person have to physically go into the city building to request public records or can they write or call?

And does anyone else have information regarding any other Riverside officer abusing their power or engaged in misconduct?
I recently learned that Mayor Bill Flaute has his own dark secret that he's covered up. Check out Dayton Daily News and search for Bill Flaute Arrest
 

Grapeshot

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Valhalla
I noticed someone had mentioned Randolph Township and Sgt. Jones. But no one has any other information. When I try to do a google search for Randolph Township and Sgt. Jones, I get nothing.
Does anyone know precisely when this happened, what happened and why and which state Randolph Township is in? And if possible, how to find the specific information on what happened with Sgt. Jones in regard to Randolph Township.

Also does a person have to physically go into the city building to request public records or can they write or call?

And does anyone else have information regarding any other Riverside officer abusing their power or engaged in misconduct?
I recently learned that Mayor Bill Flaute has his own dark secret that he's covered up. Check out Dayton Daily News and search for Bill Flaute Arrest
If this isn't OC or RKBA related, then it is off-topic for OCDO.

Randolph Township
, Portage County, Ohio - Wikipedia, the free ...


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randolph_Township,_Portage_County,_Ohio
Randolph Township is one of the eighteen townships of Portage County, Ohio, United States. The 2000 census found 5,504 people in the township.

There is no "Jones", Sgt. or otherwise, on the current personnel list.
http://www.randolphnj.org/police/contact/
 
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eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,539
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I noticed someone had mentioned Randolph Township and Sgt. Jones. But no one has any other information. When I try to do a google search for Randolph Township and Sgt. Jones, I get nothing.
Does anyone know precisely when this happened, what happened and why and which state Randolph Township is in? And if possible, how to find the specific information on what happened with Sgt. Jones in regard to Randolph Township.

Also does a person have to physically go into the city building to request public records or can they write or call?

And does anyone else have information regarding any other Riverside officer abusing their power or engaged in misconduct?
I recently learned that Mayor Bill Flaute has his own dark secret that he's covered up. Check out Dayton Daily News and search for Bill Flaute Arrest
Hi, welcome to the site. I don't think this thread has anything to do with Randolph Township. The Jones mentioned is an officer in the Riverside PD.

We have a Social Lounge for non-OC related stuff.

Although not readily identified as such, the person who posted just above me is a moderator. Thought you'd like to know.
 

NeverHere

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Jan 11, 2014
Messages
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Location
Dayton, Ohio
Related Topic

If this isn't OC or RKBA related, then it is off-topic for OCDO.

Randolph Township
, Portage County, Ohio - Wikipedia, the free ...


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randolph_Township,_Portage_County,_Ohio
Randolph Township is one of the eighteen townships of Portage County, Ohio, United States. The 2000 census found 5,504 people in the township.

There is no "Jones", Sgt. or otherwise, on the current personnel list.
http://www.randolphnj.org/police/contact/
The reason I believe my question is related to this topic is already mentioned in my original posting. I merely wanted to find out more about what went on there so I can provide that information to a lawyer. Something more to show concerning Riverside's Sgt. Harold Jones.
 

NeverHere

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Jan 11, 2014
Messages
6
Location
Dayton, Ohio
Thanks

Three minutes of searching.

Randolph Township merged with the Village of Clayton in 1998 now the City of Clayton, P.O. Box 280, Clayton, OH 45315.
Thanks for the information. It was easy for you to find, because you had more information to go by than me.
It would have been useful if the original poster mentioned this, or at least gave a county and state, instead of using just the old town name. lol

That's all I will say about this, because I don't want this to really get off topic.
 
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NeverHere

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Messages
6
Location
Dayton, Ohio
Off Topic?

NeverHere...

Lance? Is that you?


Sgt. Harold Jones is the officer that was involved in the Roy Call open carry harassment in Riverside, OH. He's probably not employed there any longer.

Sgt. Jones was also involved in the Lance Videen arrest. That one made it to the SCO:
http://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/rod/docs/pdf/2/2013/2013-ohio-1364.pdf
Don't you think that posting that link may give people a false impression of the person? Since it does not show everything?
Why is it my post is mentioned as being off-topic, despite the fact it brings up something already mentioned by someone else, yet no one seems to think yours is off-topic.
Just mentioning.
 
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MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
So, does anyone know if RCall will be at the Guns Across America event this coming Sunday?

It's at the statehouse in Columbus from noon to 4pm.

Bring guns. Bring signs. Bring people!
 

eye95

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Joined
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Messages
13,539
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
The reason I believe my question is related to this topic is already mentioned in my original posting. I merely wanted to find out more about what went on there so I can provide that information to a lawyer. Something more to show concerning Riverside's Sgt. Harold Jones.
Your reason in your first post is not clear. It still isn't. Are you even talking about the same Sgt. Jones? Why does it matter to you? Did you have a run-in with a Sgt Jones that may (or may not) be the same Sgt Jones? If so, why not share the details? They may be of use to Roy's lawyer.

Anyway, all the details of this case are in the suit that was filed which is linked in an above post.
 

NeverHere

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Location
Dayton, Ohio
Your reason in your first post is not clear. It still isn't. Are you even talking about the same Sgt. Jones? Why does it matter to you? Did you have a run-in with a Sgt Jones that may (or may not) be the same Sgt Jones? If so, why not share the details? They may be of use to Roy's lawyer.

Anyway, all the details of this case are in the suit that was filed which is linked in an above post.
I thought wanting a simple question answered would have been enough. Now you expect me to explain myself just to give me an answer, which makes me feel that I have to explain myself, when I do not. Do I not have the right to ask a simple question and get a simple answer? And aren't you smart enough to figure out that I would not be asking about Sgt. Jones if it was not the same one?

I've been here before, but considering the way I have been treated, decided to change my id, and because I am not reacting the same as I did back then to things. Now I am simply trying to gather information with which to add to my own amount of evidence against Riverside police. As I will be speaking with a lawyer in March. I had hoped to add the situation in Randolph Township to that evidence. I had also hoped to be able to speak with Makarov's neighbor, the retired Riverside cop and see if I could have him as a witness.

"What you see and hear depends a good deal on where you are standing: it also depends on what sort of person you are".
--C.S. Lewis
 
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MyWifeSaidYes

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Dec 29, 2009
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Location
Logan, OH
Anybody remember PoliceVictim1?

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...p-of-forum-member-RCall&p=2027132#post2027132

I am trying everything I can to get the word out. But he's been doing more than just making stuff up. I have copies of the police reports on two different cases in which he is directly involved. I also have witnesses and statements. But unfortunately too poor to sue the police and so far have gotten no help from anyone. So I am doing all I can to warn people about him. Get the truth out about him and other officers who are corrupt.
Officers Sullivan, Schmidt, Brewer and Sgt. Jones are all guilty of traumatizing innocent citizens to gain false statements. One citizen has ended up in the emergency room three times because of what they did to that person.
Sgt. Harold Jones is also guilty of theft, falsifying documents used in a court case, altering evidence used in a court case, lying on the witness stand multiple times (contradicting himself if you want to look at it that way). He is guilty of enlisting a neighbor with a grudge and having that person help traumatize another person, as well as keeping an eye on their neighbor so the police can do an illegal search and seizure when that person is gone.
I have enough to help bury him, but would be nice if others would help. I want to simply warn others of what's really going on in Riverside. I'm afraid of telling my name for valid reasons, and because people would judge me and think I am lying.
But I do have police reports, witnesses and statements proving what I am saying.
I just want to make sure this does not continue.
Don't look for the chief Mark Reiss to help. He's ignored four attempts to complain against such officers above. He's even covered up their crimes.
How do I know this? Someone I know goes to church with Detective James Vance. Who has admitted that he used to be a beat cop, knows all their tricks, yet won't come forward because he cares more about his job than what he's supposed to be doing. This makes him an accessory as well as aiding-and-abetting.
He has also admitted that the entire precinct has been told to keep quiet about a case and not speak to anyone. I doubt that anyone but the chief has the authority to hush up an entire precinct.
 
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