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Is Probable Cause at Risk? Is this a win or a setback?

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,539
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Wrong again. A tick is a form of an arachnid.

Oh, wait, that is a non-sequitur, designed only to distract, much like yours. Never mind.
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
657
Location
Kentucky
The stop of a person himself is a “seizure”. A Terry stop, and the allowed searches during one, are 4A issues.

Eye you know better than what you are arguing about the 4A as written in the COTUS.
You can read and type so I have to come to the conclusion that you would rather climb a tree upside down and argue, than stand on the ground and simply agree with anyone even about a blatantly obvious fact.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,539
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
No, actually, I don’t want to argue this point further. Another wrote a rational post that helped me make the precise point I was trying to make. So, have at it. Continue to argue the point if you wish.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
11,818
Location
White Oak Plantation
When a cop does a Terry stop he has seized a citizen, unlawfully in my view, and a search (a separate unlawful act) is excused only if a cop can justify (always after the rights violation), that the unlawful search was okie dokie cuz he saw a bulge down there (liars all of them).

When Terry was "shoehorned" into our legal system the 4A became but a footnote to our individual liberties. Of course, a cop is not required to do a search...but when has that happened...not very often I must say.

Heien is not about eminent domain, it is about a cop acting on what he thinks the laws says. Kinda like OC is unlawful where it is/was clearly lawful...see US v. Black. https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-4th-circuit/1624096.html and St John https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/2417423/st-john-v-mccolley/

The topic at hand is clear to me, exigent circumstances is but another nail in the coffin of the 4A. Cops could just as well not immediately invade a home to stop a violent crime if they believed doing so would pose a risk to themselves or the occupants...see Warren v. DC https://law.justia.com/cases/district-of-columbia/court-of-appeals/1981/79-6-3.html
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
4,503
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
OC for ME, A very good post. You make very clear that you are presenting your opinion. Then you go on and explain why your belief is what it is with case law citings.

Now, where the problem will be is someone will argue with you and it will become obvious they didn't read the cases you cited. But, they will insist your wrong.

I will add one caveat, if a cop stops you to ask directions to the nearest doughnut shop, that is not a seizure.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
11,818
Location
White Oak Plantation
OC for ME, A very good post. You make very clear that you are presenting your opinion. Then you go on and explain why your belief is what it is with case law citings.

Now, where the problem will be is someone will argue with you and it will become obvious they didn't read the cases you cited. But, they will insist your wrong.

I will add one caveat, if a cop stops you to ask directions to the nearest doughnut shop, that is not a seizure.
Thanks...as to your last statement, that would be a unlawful seizure cuz every cop knows how to get to a doughnut shop, like birds flying south for the winter, it's in there DNA...or, it's a fella posing as a cop. ;)
 

FreedomVA

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
366
Location
FreedomVA
Krispy Kreme has a big azz NEON sign flashing "HOT DONUTS" and they can smell it miles away and @ 5pm it's a instinctive reaction to migrate to KK

13636
 
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