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Federal lawsuit filed against Cleveland Heights police for harassing open carrier

Deanimator

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TheFuzz wrote:
When you sue a LE agency for civil rights violations your suing the government entity they represent not the individual officers.
When an LEO steps outside of the normal parameters of his duties, he pierces his qualified immunity and may be found PERSONALLY liable. In Chicago, individual officers are PERSONALLY liable for punitive damages. Ask Detective Alvin Weems, who, along with the city, is PERSONALLY responsible for some portion of the $12.5 million judgment for his having fatally shot Michael Pleasance in the face and lied about it. I'm sure he'd appreciate whatever help you can spare. I think he and his family can be reached at his new address in a dumpster behind city hall.
 

Mike

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Deanimator wrote:
When an LEO steps outside of the normal parameters of his duties, he pierces his qualified immunity and may be found PERSONALLY liable. In Chicago, individual officers are PERSONALLY liable for punitive damages.
Good point - even if a locality picks up the damage award for officers found personall liable, thewhole concept serves as a deterrent to police misconduct - but only if people sue for damages.
 

Notso

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In exchange for the monetary damages, I'd probably be willing toaccept thejobs of the officers involved, theirsupervisor and the head of the department. Something like that might make sure it doesn't happen again. Other than that, loss of money is about the only pain you can inflict upon them and pain is the only way it will be remembered.
 

Deanimator

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Notso wrote:
Other than that, loss of money is about the only pain you can inflict upon them and pain is the only way it will be remembered.
Taking of money from the city isn't a deterrent to the LEOs. If they've still got jobs when the suit is filed, that's proof that the department didn't think they did anything wrong in the first place. Taking money from the LEOs is the deterrent.

Any LEO who calls a crime or intentional tort against a citizen a "mistake" or who doesn't want to be accountable for his or her own voluntary actions needs to find another job. Any LEO who falls into that category does nothing but harm to society and gets paid for the privilege. There will always be criminals in society. It's foolish to pay their salaries.
 

Notso

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Hiring practices and training needs to change. Inflict enough pain on the city/management and those things will change.
 

okboomer

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As I am not a lawyer, but a Private Investigator/Security Guard, I did have to learn the state and federal laws governing arrest and handcuffing.

If you will look closely, he is suing the Police officers individually as Plaintiffs "John Doe 1-5", the City Manager by name, and the Chief of Police by name.

And as I read the wording, he is suing "in excess of $150,000.00" on each complaint

As for suing for monetary damages, if it comes out of the City and Police department, then they are in a budget crisis and you had better believe that there will be major efforts to remedy this issue.

After listening to the video (audio), it seems to me that the city is going to have to answer for the wrong information that the officers stated and then for their attitude about violating his civil rights. This is an egregious breech of civil rights based on their ignorance of the law. And ignorance of the law is not a defense.

I do agree that the lawyer's use of the first amendment statement could be distracting, but it supports the violation of civil rights, which is one of the mainstays of the suit.

I sure hope someone has sent a link to this video to the Ohio Attorney General. The officer's statement probably won't go over very well in the AG's office.

As for the talking you did, I disagree that you "talked too much" in this case. You probably did have to notify them that they were being recorded. (I loved their statements about that!) Then, trying to get them to tell you why they were detaining you was a good move. It shows that either the law in Ohio needs to be more specific about LEO/OC contacts, or the blatent disregard by the officers of state law. And their statements concerning why they were detaining you only holds water if that area is a "hotbed" of gun use. This might be something to bring up with your lawyer. Did they have a reasonable belief that you might be a bad guy due to other criminal activity in that neighborhood. It will come down to a litmus test of whether the officers had a reasonable belief of whether or not you were a bad guy and whether their or the public's safety was endangered.

After having been involved in a couple of legal matters, I would like to bringa couple of issues to your attention that I found in the past:

1. Your lawyer needs to anticipate the respondents areas of attack/defense

2. The handcuffing is a non-issue, the "get on the ground" is probably going to be a non-issue - both of these are covered under "officer safety" - Levin v City of New York and Martin v Swift

3. The pat down and search are also probably non-issues - Terry v Ohio and Chemel v California

4. Your civil rights were violated when the officers didn't know the law, not that they stopped you, handcuffed you and searched you (hence the wording of the charges).

5. I do believe the assault and battery did occur when they demonstrated that they didn't know the law and proceeded "under the color of law" to verbally assault you and I believe they battered you also "under the color of law"

I think you will be lucky if you get anything out of this at all. You were not arrested. Has there been a show-cause hearing? You probably won't get past that.

Good luck and I hope this does go further.
 

Mike

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okboomer wrote:
2. The handcuffing is a non-issue, the "get on the ground" is probably going to be a non-issue - both of these are covered under "officer safety" - Levin v City of New York and Martin v Swift

3. The pat down and search are also probably non-issues - Terry v Ohio and Chemel v California

4. Your civil rights were violated when the officers didn't know the law, not that they stopped you, handcuffed you and searched you (hence the wording of the charges).
um, huh?

Absent RAS ("reasonable articulable suspicion") of crime being afoot, police cannot seize people, pat them down, or cuff them.

Please read the cases you cite.
 

simmonsjoe

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in Terry v. Ohio the officer was able to articulate (explain with detail) why he had reasonable suspicion unlawful activity was happening.

This brings up a good point. Everyone needs to be very observant and be able to ARTICULATE what they saw / experienced whenever an event occurs that may result in legal action. Having a recorder is good. Being able to give a play-by-play of the body language etc. of the persons involved is awesome. Preferably if you can explain what raised your suspicion and made you start recording in first place.

For example:
"The guy was acting funny and scared me and got real close"
READ: "I AM SCARED OF BLACK/HOMELESS/WHATEVER PEOPLE"

versus
"The man was looking around furtively, as he approached me I noticed his right arm was held tucked to his side and he kept feeling at the seam of his jeans. His gate appeared unnatural and forced. He invaded my personal space by getting closer than normal conversation distance from me."
READ: level headed guy who pays attention to his surroundings.

If you ever find yourself in court as a witness / defendant / claimant this will make a huge difference.
 

okboomer

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Their premise from what I heard on the video was that he had a gun in plain sight ... their argument will probably be that they "didn't know" if he was a criminal or not.

As for the citations all fall under "officer safety" and are Supreme Court citations:

Levin v City of New York: handcuffs must be: 1) placed at the proper point, 2) properly adjusted, 3) double locked

Martin v Swift: Male/Female pat down of opposite sex

Terry v Ohio: pat down authorization w/out arrest

Chemel v California: search authorization during handcuff w/out arrest

If you have different definition of these would like to hear
 

Mike

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okboomer wrote:
Their premise from what I heard on the video was that he had a gun in plain sight ... their argument will probably be that they "didn't know" if he was a criminal or not.
So what - police don't get to check people out just to see if they are criminals.
 

simmonsjoe

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okboomer wrote:
Their premise from what I heard on the video was that he had a gun in plain sight ... their argument will probably be that they "didn't know" if he was a criminal or not.
This is silly.:p If you don't know if someone is a criminal than you have no right to even ask them to stop walking. The only reason you can stop someone is if you have REASONABLE SUSPICION a criminal act is CURRENTLY UNDERWAY. The OC of a firearm is a LAWFUL act and therefor CAN NOT be reasonable suspicion of a CRIMINAL ACT.:banghead:

I don't know how cops keep getting away with this trash. The department puts it in their files and even reports it to the media as reasonable cause, then the Judge eventually tells them they are full of shit and none of that reasoning is OK. Then the police continue to justify their actions.:banghead:

I wish we could stop fighting this in civil court. We should be able to fill out afidavits and file with the magistrate, forcing the DA to file charges whether he wants to or not. This selective prosecution things gotta be defeated somehow
 

84Cork

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IANAL, but I will attach a recent case (Link)which might give us all hope!

http://www.gunslot.com/pictures/alamogordo-police-pay-21000-settle-open-carry-lawsuit

okboomer wrote:
After having been involved in a couple of legal matters, I would like to bring a couple of issues to your attention that I found in the past:

1. Your lawyer needs to anticipate the respondents areas of attack/defense

2. The handcuffing is a non-issue, the "get on the ground" is probably going to be a non-issue - both of these are covered under "officer safety" - Levin v City of New York and Martin v Swift

3. The pat down and search are also probably non-issues - Terry v Ohio and Chemel v California

4. Your civil rights were violated when the officers didn't know the law, not that they stopped you, handcuffed you and searched you (hence the wording of the charges).

5. I do believe the assault and battery did occur when they demonstrated that they didn't know the law and proceeded "under the color of law" to verbally assault you and I believe they battered you also "under the color of law"

I think you will be lucky if you get anything out of this at all. You were not arrested. Has there been a show-cause hearing? You probably won't get past that.

Good luck and I hope this does go further.
 

Deanimator

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Ohio's a one party consent state for audio recording. As long as you're a party to the conversation, you can record to your heart's content, and completely without anyone else's knowledge or consent. This has of course worked to the detriment of a number of bad cops in recent years.
 
M

McX

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Good Pics! Looking at them, I don't see much of a threat there to anyone. Except criminals. Children play in the background, and once again: NOTHING HAPPENED! An average looking joe should not have to put up with this!
 

Citizen

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Grapeshot wrote:
SNIP I feel confident that you will seek your council's advice before posting.
I counsel not talking to his council. They probably passed this silly ordinance in the first place. :):p
 

Citizen

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TheFuzz wrote:
What I think you fail to see is that with today's litigation happy society is that personal responsibility is longer important as long as I can blame someone else and then demand a fortune in compensation

As long as money is the equation to skews the objective.
Huh!?!

People have been blaming others for their own mis-responsibility for millenia. Whether they could recover money or not. Just ask the husband who leaves the seat up.
 

okboomer

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Outstanding link Cork ... this is exactly what the attorney needs.

As for Mike's comment, you are right, if not 1, then not 2 ... that is why I suggested looking at the crime figures for the particular neighborhood. If there had been a recent rash of gun violence, even reports of shots fired, then the officers may have had a reasonable suspicion of danger from him open carrying.

And I have been instructed that handcuffing for officer safety without a crime being committed is accepted while a background check is run. Now, whether they overstepped by putting him on the ground first, well, that will be up to the judge and I don't see him overrulling the officer concerning his concern for his safety. Hope it turns out to be different in Ohio.

Would be another item for the attorney to look into ... the performance of all the officers involved to see if there were any complaints of unnecessary force.

I know I bookmarked the link Cork posted in my Gun/Legal file for future reference :lol:
 

JoeSparky

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Mike wrote:
okboomer wrote:
Their premise from what I heard on the video was that he had a gun in plain sight ... their argument will probably be that they "didn't know" if he was a criminal or not.
So what - police don't get to check people out just to see if they are criminals.
Same principle that prohibits officers from stopping ANY driver they see to check if said driver has a license to operated a motor-vehicle!

So, you can't stop ANY gun carrier you see just to determine if he is a criminal!

edited to add the " 't " behind "can" so it would actually say what I thought I typed the first time..... silly rental typing fingers!
 
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