Explanation of Reciprocity Bill passed by House.

[LouKYccguy]

I came across a really good explanation of the reciprocity bill. Good things, bad things. It adds to the discussion.

https://mylegalheat.com/blog/concea...ct-passed-by-u-s-house-what-you-need-to-know/

Richard

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

A lot of what if's in that article.

Or what might states might try to do to get around it.

I didn't find it very informative.

 

[gutshot II]

I came across a really good explanation of the reciprocity bill. Good things, bad things. It adds to the discussion.

https://mylegalheat.com/blog/concea...ct-passed-by-u-s-house-what-you-need-to-know/

Richard

It is pretty hard to explain a law that has not been finalized yet. There can, and certainly will be numerous changes to what exists now. Who knows what will come out in the final draft? Who knows what the Senate version will look like? Who knows what changes will be made during reconciliation? At this point, all is speculation.

 

[Bikenut]

Regardless of the final draft that gets voted into law the result of Federal national reciprocity is handing the Federal government the power to regulate concealed carry nationwide.

Don't think so? Just having a Federal law that controls reciprocity from State to State IS already REGULATING! and is just the beginning of being able to use that power to regulate concealed carry permits in many different ways.

Now image someone like "Mr. and Mrs. America turn them all in!" Diane Feinstein looking at a Federal law that gives the power to regulate concealed carry through using the Commerce Clause to allow national reciprocity and guess what happens next.

Be careful of having your attention drawn to the shiny object called national concealed carry while the real objective of future federal control is sneaking up in the shadows.

 

[color of law]

If we need someone to explain to us what the law says then it's void for vagueness.

 

[solus]

bikenut, tisn’t a shining object, tis a bear, (government), is in plain sight as shown in ths experiment, the citizenry refuse to see it!

 

[gutshot II]

Regardless of the final draft that gets voted into law the result of Federal national reciprocity is handing the Federal government the power to regulate concealed carry nationwide.

Don't think so? Just having a Federal law that controls reciprocity from State to State IS already REGULATING! and is just the beginning of being able to use that power to regulate concealed carry permits in many different ways.

Now image someone like "Mr. and Mrs. America turn them all in!" Diane Feinstein looking at a Federal law that gives the power to regulate concealed carry through using the Commerce Clause to allow national reciprocity and guess what happens next.

Be careful of having your attention drawn to the shiny object called national concealed carry while the real objective of future federal control is sneaking up in the shadows.

I, too, have reservations about the federal government getting into an area that has been, up 'til now, a state issue. It will have few benefits for me. My Ky. CCDW is already accepted in 34 states and we accept all other permits and licenses here. I have no desire to visit the states that don't accept a KY. CCDW. If you are as adamantly opposed to this "national reciprocity" as you claim to be and the dangers are as serious as you, color of law and solus think them to be, what are you doing about it and what do you suggest that others do about it, besides howl into the emptiness that OCDO has become? Do you expect the movement of this bandwagon to halt, just because you posted your opposition here? Who here, with he exception of Nightmare of course, has the political clout and high government contacts to do anything to prevent passage of this? This will pass or not pass independent of the approval or disapproval of the few people that remain on the carcass of OCDO. We are irrevalant.

 

[Bikenut]

I, too, have reservations about the federal government getting into an area that has been, up 'til now, a state issue. It will have few benefits for me. My Ky. CCDW is already accepted in 34 states and we accept all other permits and licenses here. I have no desire to visit the states that don't accept a KY. CCDW. If you are as adamantly opposed to this "national reciprocity" as you claim to be and the dangers are as serious as you, color of law and solus think them to be, what are you doing about it and what do you suggest that others do about it, besides howl into the emptiness that OCDO has become? Do you expect the movement of this bandwagon to halt, just because you posted your opposition here? Who here, with he exception of Nightmare of course, has the political clout and high government contacts to do anything to prevent passage of this? This will pass or not pass independent of the approval or disapproval of the few people that remain on the carcass of OCDO. We are irrevalant.

If you think you are irrelevant then you are and they have won without your having even farted in their general direction.

What have I done? I have argued/exposed national reciprocity for the federal power grab 2nd Amendment neutering boondoggle it is on this and other forums and in real life for one thing. I've done the other usual, and generally useless, writing of letters and making phone calls also.

But if you want me to spend 7 or 8 million bucks in an anti national reciprocity campaign in order to be considered credible then I'm out of luck because I don't have the bucks. Wish I did though so I could spend them so the only thing I really can do is to show people, people like you, just how much of a bull crap anti 2nd Amendment right to bear arms idea national reciprocity is in the hopes they too will spread the word and get enough folks educated/worked up that those mostly useless letters and phone calls start having an effect.

Unfortunately entirely too many people take the position of ecstatically jumping up and down knowing they will have a brand new privilege or they take the other view that they really don't much care because it doesn't change their carrying abilities at all. Neither of which understand they are handing Daddy Fed the power to regulate concealed carry out of existence throughout the entire nation in the future.

How could that possibly happen? All an anti gun Daddy Fed Congress/Administration need do is to set the standards for qualifying for that permit. Standards that include how much the permit itself costs that could be anything Daddy Fed decides prices out the "deplorables", and to set the standards for how much training is necessary, where that training must be had (only one or two places in the country limiting the availability pretty much to only the elite?), and who are acceptable trainers.

By the way.. setting standards is regulating and some folks say the current reciprocity bills don't set any standards for permit qualification but those same folks don't understand that requiring all States to recognize carry permits from other States IS.... regulating carry permits and is setting the precedent of Daddy Fed having the power to .... regulate... even further.

Does all that sound like paranoia? Think about Diane Feinstein's "Mr and Mrs. America. Turn then all in!" comment and consider the make up of a future Congress and Administration. Then ask yourself if Daddy Fed ever EVER passed up any opportunity to use it's power to enact, or at least try like hell to enact, more gun control?

Ok... now you have seen an example of what I do in this, and many other forums, along with talking to folks in real life and those mostly useless letters and phone calls. Now, since you challenged me..... what exactly are YOU doing about it? No animosity in that question... I'm just wondering if you are actively doing something or just howling into the emptiness of OCDO.

 

[wabbit]

Bikenut, you mentioned setting ‘standards’, a bit of history when NM legislature set up their CCW program for their citizens, the live fire standard initially established was significantly higher than those qualifying or in-service training for LEs.

Knowledgeable citizens complained and the standard was lowered.

As it stands today, NM’s citizens initial ccw training is approximately 15 hours in length, certs initally issued for citizens are for one caliber only, citizens may only carry one firearm, and citizens must reaccomplish live fire every two years.

NM administrative code: 10.8.2

 

[gutshot II]

If you think you are irrelevant then you are and they have won without your having even farted in their general direction.

What have I done? I have argued/exposed national reciprocity for the federal power grab 2nd Amendment neutering boondoggle it is on this and other forums and in real life for one thing. I've done the other usual, and generally useless, writing of letters and making phone calls also.

But if you want me to spend 7 or 8 million bucks in an anti national reciprocity campaign in order to be considered credible then I'm out of luck because I don't have the bucks. Wish I did though so I could spend them so the only thing I really can do is to show people, people like you, just how much of a bull crap anti 2nd Amendment right to bear arms idea national reciprocity is in the hopes they too will spread the word and get enough folks educated/worked up that those mostly useless letters and phone calls start having an effect.

Unfortunately entirely too many people take the position of ecstatically jumping up and down knowing they will have a brand new privilege or they take the other view that they really don't much care because it doesn't change their carrying abilities at all. Neither of which understand they are handing Daddy Fed the power to regulate concealed carry out of existence throughout the entire nation in the future.

How could that possibly happen? All an anti gun Daddy Fed Congress/Administration need do is to set the standards for qualifying for that permit. Standards that include how much the permit itself costs that could be anything Daddy Fed decides prices out the "deplorables", and to set the standards for how much training is necessary, where that training must be had (only one or two places in the country limiting the availability pretty much to only the elite?), and who are acceptable trainers.

By the way.. setting standards is regulating and some folks say the current reciprocity bills don't set any standards for permit qualification but those same folks don't understand that requiring all States to recognize carry permits from other States IS.... regulating carry permits and is setting the precedent of Daddy Fed having the power to .... regulate... even further.

Does all that sound like paranoia? Think about Diane Feinstein's "Mr and Mrs. America. Turn then all in!" comment and consider the make up of a future Congress and Administration. Then ask yourself if Daddy Fed ever EVER passed up any opportunity to use it's power to enact, or at least try like hell to enact, more gun control?

Ok... now you have seen an example of what I do in this, and many other forums, along with talking to folks in real life and those mostly useless letters and phone calls. Now, since you challenged me..... what exactly are YOU doing about it? No animosity in that question... I'm just wondering if you are actively doing something or just howling into the emptiness of OCDO.

And what results have come from your work? As I said originally, this will pass or not pass independent of what anyone on OCDO, including you, does. Any efforts on this are futile.

 

[OC for ME]

And what results have come from your work? As I said originally, this will pass or not pass independent of what anyone on OCDO, including you, does. Any efforts on this are futile.

Nice dodge.

 

[Bikenut]

Originally Posted by Bikenut

If you think you are irrelevant then you are and they have won without your having even farted in their general direction.

What have I done? I have argued/exposed national reciprocity for the federal power grab 2nd Amendment neutering boondoggle it is on this and other forums and in real life for one thing. I've done the other usual, and generally useless, writing of letters and making phone calls also.

But if you want me to spend 7 or 8 million bucks in an anti national reciprocity campaign in order to be considered credible then I'm out of luck because I don't have the bucks. Wish I did though so I could spend them so the only thing I really can do is to show people, people like you, just how much of a bull crap anti 2nd Amendment right to bear arms idea national reciprocity is in the hopes they too will spread the word and get enough folks educated/worked up that those mostly useless letters and phone calls start having an effect.

Unfortunately entirely too many people take the position of ecstatically jumping up and down knowing they will have a brand new privilege or they take the other view that they really don't much care because it doesn't change their carrying abilities at all. Neither of which understand they are handing Daddy Fed the power to regulate concealed carry out of existence throughout the entire nation in the future.

How could that possibly happen? All an anti gun Daddy Fed Congress/Administration need do is to set the standards for qualifying for that permit. Standards that include how much the permit itself costs that could be anything Daddy Fed decides prices out the "deplorables", and to set the standards for how much training is necessary, where that training must be had (only one or two places in the country limiting the availability pretty much to only the elite?), and who are acceptable trainers.

By the way.. setting standards is regulating and some folks say the current reciprocity bills don't set any standards for permit qualification but those same folks don't understand that requiring all States to recognize carry permits from other States IS.... regulating carry permits and is setting the precedent of Daddy Fed having the power to .... regulate... even further.

Does all that sound like paranoia? Think about Diane Feinstein's "Mr and Mrs. America. Turn then all in!" comment and consider the make up of a future Congress and Administration. Then ask yourself if Daddy Fed ever EVER passed up any opportunity to use it's power to enact, or at least try like hell to enact, more gun control?

Ok... now you have seen an example of what I do in this, and many other forums, along with talking to folks in real life and those mostly useless letters and phone calls. Now, since you challenged me..... what exactly are YOU doing about it? No animosity in that question... I'm just wondering if you are actively doing something or just howling into the emptiness of OCDO.

And what results have come from your work? As I said originally, this will pass or not pass independent of what anyone on OCDO, including you, does. Any efforts on this are futile.

I do know that as long as you think any efforts to stand up for the right to bear arms (and not only are carry permits a violation of the 2nd Amendment by being "infringements" to begin with handing Daddy Fed the power to regulate those permits is a double infringement!) is, in your word "futile" then I guess that might soothe your conscience about doing nothing.

I don't know what effect, if any, my letters and phone calls have had nor do I know what effect, if any, my efforts on internet forums have had (except maybe I might open a few eyes to how any effort is better than no effort when it comes to fighting for rights!) but I can say with absolute honesty that my face to face conversations in real life conversations often prompted by my daily open carry have caused folks to actually think about more than just gaining a new privilege/convenience and what national reciprocity means concerning giving more power to the swamp. And I can say with absolute honesty that a few of those conversations have changed the minds of those I spoke with.

If you think any efforts to stop yet another government power grab are futile and do nothing to stop it (whether those efforts are successful or not) then you are helping the government piss on the right to bear arms yet again.

And if you do nothing then it won't be long before the results of your non work become law. That might give you some satisfaction that your "do nothing" attitude was right but had you, and others like you with that "do nothing" attitude, actually done something then the efforts to stop national reciprocity just might not have been.............. futile.

 

[gutshot II]

I do know that as long as you think any efforts to stand up for the right to bear arms (and not only are carry permits a violation of the 2nd Amendment by being "infringements" to begin with handing Daddy Fed the power to regulate those permits is a double infringement!) is, in your word "futile" then I guess that might soothe your conscience about doing nothing.

I don't know what effect, if any, my letters and phone calls have had nor do I know what effect, if any, my efforts on internet forums have had (except maybe I might open a few eyes to how any effort is better than no effort when it comes to fighting for rights!) but I can say with absolute honesty that my face to face conversations in real life conversations often prompted by my daily open carry have caused folks to actually think about more than just gaining a new privilege/convenience and what national reciprocity means concerning giving more power to the swamp. And I can say with absolute honesty that a few of those conversations have changed the minds of those I spoke with.

If you think any efforts to stop yet another government power grab are futile and do nothing to stop it (whether those efforts are successful or not) then you are helping the government piss on the right to bear arms yet again.

And if you do nothing then it won't be long before the results of your non work become law. That might give you some satisfaction that your "do nothing" attitude was right but had you, and others like you with that "do nothing" attitude, actually done something then the efforts to stop national reciprocity just might not have been.............. futile.

None of the people that you have spoken to and none of the people that have read your internet postings get to vote on this. The House passed it even though you talked against it. They didn't hear you. The Senate will not hear you. They don't care what you think about it. They don't care what I think about it. Your work didn't accomplish anything and it will not accomplish anything with the Senate. If you convince 10,000 people that you are right, it won't change a thing. My congressman, Thomas Massie, railed against it and he had no luck. If a member of congress can't stop it, how do you expect to do anything? It is a done deal. They just haven't told us the outcome yet.They will let us know after they complete this charade that they try to make look like democracy.

 

[hammer6]

I came across a really good explanation of the reciprocity bill. Good things, bad things. It adds to the discussion.

https://mylegalheat.com/blog/concea...ct-passed-by-u-s-house-what-you-need-to-know/

Richard

are you required by federal law to have a weapon license? if not, why are we giving congress the authority to create that type of law?

 

[hammer6]

Regardless of the final draft that gets voted into law the result of Federal national reciprocity is handing the Federal government the power to regulate concealed carry nationwide.

Don't think so? Just having a Federal law that controls reciprocity from State to State IS already REGULATING! and is just the beginning of being able to use that power to regulate concealed carry permits in many different ways.

Now image someone like "Mr. and Mrs. America turn them all in!" Diane Feinstein looking at a Federal law that gives the power to regulate concealed carry through using the Commerce Clause to allow national reciprocity and guess what happens next.

Be careful of having your attention drawn to the shiny object called national concealed carry while the real objective of future federal control is sneaking up in the shadows.

exactly. there's already federal law on the books concerning carry, why do we need another law?

 

[Bikenut]

None of the people that you have spoken to and none of the people that have read your internet postings get to vote on this. The House passed it even though you talked against it. They didn't hear you. The Senate will not hear you. They don't care what you think about it. They don't care what I think about it. Your work didn't accomplish anything and it will not accomplish anything with the Senate. If you convince 10,000 people that you are right, it won't change a thing. My congressman, Thomas Massie, railed against it and he had no luck. If a member of congress can't stop it, how do you expect to do anything? It is a done deal. They just haven't told us the outcome yet.They will let us know after they complete this charade that they try to make look like democracy.

Unfortunately you appear to be one of those folks who have given up without a fight. What is really unfortunate is that you have convinced yourself that fighting isn't worth the effort so you won't make any phone calls or write any letters or talk to folks in real life. Folks that vote in, or out, congressmen.

What is sad is that your negative attitude expressed online helps convince other folks to give up before even starting.

And when "we the people" give up as you apparently have then "them the government" will do exactly what you are talking about.... doing whatever they want because they know there isn't any opposition.

But there is another thing that I do in the fight for the right to keep and bear arms and that is making sure to respond to posts like yours so folks can see the danger of giving up without at least trying.

So you can go on believing there is no point in trying and I will go on believing that trying IS the point.