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Freedom1Man

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the fight should have nothing to do with federal/general government. the 2nd amendment does not apply to states and we do not want it to. we want local laws not national. there we can control it ourselves. the feds have no business in our gun laws at all. the sovereign states have that pervue. most of the state constitutions are very close to the federal, but leave the feds out of gun rights. they do not belong. the bill of rights only applies to federal government, not states and localities.
If the second amendment does not apply than neither do the 4th, 5th, 6th, 1st, etc.

The bill of rights is part of what the states agreed to abide by when they became states. So yes it does apply as restrictions against the states.

By your logic then the power to coin money could not be barred from the states then either.

Part of the reason for the bill of rights is so that a citizen of one state would not have to worry about his rights being ignored as he traveled through the many states. He should be able to travel through all the states with his pistol and rifle in hand without fear of being stopped, arrested, etc. He does not give up his right to self-defense simply by crossing from one state into another.


Using your logic again, if I wanted to 'plead the 5th' in one state and walked across the boarder into another state who wanted to charge me for what I was being accused of in the other state they could lock me up for not confessing. That protection was put into the bill of rights to protect me from all levels of government. The only exception I could find is the 1st amendment where it clearly says that "congress shall pass no law" so the first amendment seems to be the only one that is not protected for you against a state/local government.
 
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davidmcbeth

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earth's crust
the fight should have nothing to do with federal/general government. the 2nd amendment does not apply to states and we do not want it to. we want local laws not national. there we can control it ourselves. the feds have no business in our gun laws at all. the sovereign states have that pervue. most of the state constitutions are very close to the federal, but leave the feds out of gun rights. they do not belong. the bill of rights only applies to federal government, not states and localities.
That was true for a time ... until the 14th amendment was passed because of states violating ex-slaves rights..

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_of_the_Bill_of_Rights


Plus our gun rights pre-dated out county's formation...as acknowledged in Heller
 
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skidmark

Campaign Veteran
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.... The only exception I could find is the 1st amendment where it clearly says that "congress shall pass no law" so the first amendment seems to be the only one that is not protected for you against a state/local government.
Except that SCOTUS has repeatedly said that the First Amendment does in fact apply against the States. Being the arbiters of what the law is, what they say goes until they change their mind.

Understanding the law is not about reading what the law says, but what the courts say the law says. I think it is that way to assure paralegals a career in legal research.:p

stay safe.
 
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Freedom1Man

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Except that SCOTUS has repeatedly said that the First Amendment does in fact apply against the States. Being the arbiters of what the law is, what they say goes until they change their mind.

Understanding the law is not about reading what the law says, but what the courts say the law says. I think it is that way to assure paralegals a career in legal research.:p

stay safe.
If it takes a court to understand a law then the law is void. In this case, the 1st Amendment, is really very clear.

The judges ruling the way they have just shows how corrupt they are.
 

JmE

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, ,
First, I want to apologize to John Pierce as I may have inadvertently posted on this forum some of which he deems unwelcome on his board. I did not read this thread until today. I will try my best to remember not to post such things here as much of my opinions today, and I am unapologetic about that aspect, somewhat resemble that which he describes.

Thread:
Upon reading http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/17/coalition-troops-now-armed-at-all-times-on-afghan-bases-in-wake-insider/ today, I was struck by this quote:
"Afghans can't be insulted and they have no conflict resolution capability. The smallest thing can set them off."
The article reminded me that our government, and I suspect any government, when encountering an unyielding group under their authority, will eventually accept that is simply the way it is and act to work around the issue within the framework of how much that group is willing to acquiesce. We will only lose as much freedom as we allow.

If it takes a court to understand a law then the law is void.
Makes sense... I like it.
 

tyc

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... The judges ruling the way they have just shows how corrupt they are.
It is not that they are corrupt.

When dealing with local judges it must be understood right up front that many of these are individuals, with law degrees, individuals who could not successfully compete in the local and very competitive world of legal services available in the local county - so they - some how these inept individuals get elected as judges where far too many spend the balance or most of their working lives doing damage to their communities; in what's currently called "public service."

If you want to find out what judges are really like at the higher levels have a good look at PRACTICING PRO SE found in the legal directory at the front of this forum.

tyc
 

Freedom1Man

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It is not that they are corrupt.

When dealing with local judges it must be understood right up front that many of these are individuals, with law degrees, individuals who could not successfully compete in the local and very competitive world of legal services available in the local county - so they - some how these inept individuals get elected as judges where far too many spend the balance or most of their working lives doing damage to their communities; in what's currently called "public service."

If you want to find out what judges are really like at the higher levels have a good look at PRACTICING PRO SE found in the legal directory at the front of this forum.

tyc
Oh geez, are you a gold fringe patriot?
 

Cerberus

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Wow! I haven't been on this site in months, (largely because of bovine scatology such as this), and the first thread I click on is this one.
I have complained for years that gun supporters were their own worst enemies, once again I am right.
According to you, everything is happy happy happy, and if I don't agree I am one of the extremist fringe and am not welcome here. Just curious, did you go to the Heinrich Himmler school of public management?
I know this thread was started some time ago, so I will ask, does what is going on in D.C. right now cause you to reconsider?
I would like to suggest that you remove your head from the sand, the constitution and the republic died at Lincoln's hands over 150 years ago.
Call me all the names you like, but I am not a member of an extremist fringe. I just happen to be savvy enough to keep my eyes wide open, and I can certainly recognize an appeaser when I encounter one.
OK, I have said my piece. I am guessing that it will not likely be up long enough for hardly anyone to read. Tyrants have always been good at controlling information and quashing dissent.
 

1245A Defender

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north mason county, Washington, USA
Wow!!!

Dont want to bump your important post,,,
But,,,,
Thank you for your rant,,,Your useless rant,,, really a useless a useless,,,wow I said it twice,,, Wow I said it twice agian
So,,, Ok Ive wasted more time for the folks than you did yourself,,,
Oh Well.... sorry everybody....
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
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Location
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Wow! I haven't been on this site in months, (largely because of bovine scatology such as this), and the first thread I click on is this one.
I have complained for years that gun supporters were their own worst enemies, once again I am right.
According to you, everything is happy happy happy, and if I don't agree I am one of the extremist fringe and am not welcome here. Just curious, did you go to the Heinrich Himmler school of public management?
I know this thread was started some time ago, so I will ask, does what is going on in D.C. right now cause you to reconsider?
I would like to suggest that you remove your head from the sand, the constitution and the republic died at Lincoln's hands over 150 years ago.
Call me all the names you like, but I am not a member of an extremist fringe. I just happen to be savvy enough to keep my eyes wide open, and I can certainly recognize an appeaser when I encounter one.
OK, I have said my piece. I am guessing that it will not likely be up long enough for hardly anyone to read. Tyrants have always been good at controlling information and quashing dissent.
Cerberus appreciate your taking another look at us. OCDO's primary focus is promoting and defending the right to OC a holstered handgun as we go about our normal everyday lives. Most other things are considered "off-topic" unless tied to that effort. It might benefit you to review our Forum Rules as they have probably changed some since you were last here.

OCDO is not a free speech, anything goes zone - OCDO is the private property of the owners of this site. We are all guests here and by virtue of posting here agree irrevocably to abide by the rules.

What we do not do is insult each other or impune the character of other posters. We are not all "happy, happy" with the way some things are, but we have seen great strides in correcting some of the problems. In the words of one of the owners, the glass is more than half full and filling everyday. It is not draining.

Point of fact, your post has nothing to do with OC or the RKBA generally. So I agree your post is an off-topic rant.

Reconsider and become a productive member here, rather tha someone that only posts 3 times in eight years - we might well both benefit.
 
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ADobbs1989

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
465
Location
Alabama
The Republic is alive and well? Haven't been paying much attention to anything around you I guess? We are far from a Republic, much closer to a Dictatorship than a Republic.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,337
Location
Valhalla
The Republic is alive and well? Haven't been paying much attention to anything around you I guess? We are far from a Republic, much closer to a Dictatorship than a Republic.
Perhaps I did not make myself clear enough - read the OP (post #1) and my explanation which was intended to give benefit of the doubt. I have gone back and highlighted/bolded to relevant words.

This sub-forum and particularly this thread is not about political arguments as to our style of government. It is about advances we have made and the work being done to further the cause.

Many of us work very hard at keeping up with what is going on both locally and nationally. The owners of this site are heavily involved in this movement.

BTW - the OP of this thread in one of those owners. Further such off-topic discussions will be edited/deleted.
 

1245A Defender

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,362
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
Well,,,

:p

How about you doing some reporting?

stay safe.
:eek: As I have said in reply to many posts,,
I have been reporting to anybody and everybody,,, except you,
Since I first saw these new posters of incredible amounts of spam at 3:30 AM my time...
I didnt get up real early to catch this shlt showing up on the forum, on purpose,, I just am...

But seriously folks... Only ONE report needs to be read and acted on by ONE "power that be"!!

I had only looked at one post from each new poster to know its is ALL spam..
Now because I view YOUR posts as worthy of my attention I have been exposed
to Dozens of these spam posts, that I had soooo diligently avoided!
Sooo you see, that your constant replies to report that you reported the spam,
has the negative effect of Spamming the forum anew,,, really has wasted a lot of my precious time...
 

Superlite27

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
1,277
Location
God's Country, Missouri
Muscle erection?
Slightly, the FDA requires.

Not completely.

Just slightly.


This brings up the deeply philosophical argument:

If one only "slightly" requires.......Is it still a requirement?

A requirement seems to insinuate an inflexible stipulation. One must meet a requirement. It is an immobile line to be crossed.

If one only "slightly" requires....where is the line?

Does it become mobile?

Is it now flexible?

If it is discretionary.....how is it a requirement if it can somehow, in some form, be waived?



I'd devote more time to contemplating this ponderous thought, but I must go.

I'm suddenly feeling a startling unflagging importune to urinate with incapability to net it to the bathroom in time.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,200
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Slightly, the FDA requires.

Not completely.

Just slightly.


This brings up the deeply philosophical argument:

If one only "slightly" requires.......Is it still a requirement?

A requirement seems to insinuate an inflexible stipulation. One must meet a requirement. It is an immobile line to be crossed.

If one only "slightly" requires....where is the line?

Does it become mobile?

Is it now flexible?

If it is discretionary.....how is it a requirement if it can somehow, in some form, be waived?



I'd devote more time to contemplating this ponderous thought, but I must go.

I'm suddenly feeling a startling unflagging importune to urinate with incapability to net it to the bathroom in time.
Thanks. You've given me something of undeniable consequence to ruminate over. Too many days go by where I spend my mental energies on unimportant and trivial issues. Today is the dawning of anew epoch.
 
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