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Elementry School Shooting. Kids killed. Shooter dead.

user

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,516
Location
Northern Piedmont
I'm against gun-violence.

My immediate question about this thing in Connecticut was, "Why didn't anyone shoot that sonofabitch before so many kids got killed?"; the school was, after all, "in loco parentis" and had a duty to protect those kids. But I agree with The President when he announced that we need to take effective action regardless of politics. And, since what criminals do is, by definition, a violation of existing law, it is clear that passing laws has no beneficial effect.

I read this article about the incident:
Wall Street Journal Articlel

I was particularly interested in this quote: "Politics be damned," Mr.
Larson said in a statement. 'Of the 12 deadliest shootings in our nation's
history, half of them have happened in the last five years. And there is not
a single person in America who doesn't fear it will happen again." So, it's
only since Lautenberg's "gun free school zone" statute that the deadliest
crimes have been committed.

They rely on the argument that the guns are in control of humans, rather than the other way around, so getting guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens will end violence. It amazes me that anyone takes that argument seriously. Or the idea that passing laws will be an effective measure against such bizarre criminal behavior. What did occur to me, thinking about the sudden clamor about "effective, nonpolitical action", was that the "gun free
school zone" thing is a cynically designed tool made for precisely what it's
done: getting more people killed, and particularly children, through the use
of firearms wielded by psychotics whacko bastards. That way, the
Lautenbergs of the world can then point to the incidents like the one in
Connecticut and say, "See?". People don't believe me when I say things like that, but there really are people are willing for innocents to die if it furthers their path to world domination. These people do not want the peasants armed, and they don't care about personal defense issues; but they can't do "social control" without disarming the population.

Surely you're aware of the effect of such laws on the behavior of people. Every morning, I watch the morning news on the Washington, D.C. stations; I always see three to five stories about people having been criminally shot in D.C. and Prince George's County, Maryland. I do not for a minute believe that there is something inherently wrong with the predominantly black population in those jurisdictions that does not show up in the lilly-white Virginia suburbs, and the only other difference is "gun control" legislation. I argue that it is precisely that "gun control" legislation that makes P.G. County and D.C. so dangerous.

I used to be chairman of the Fairfax Transportation Safety Commission. One of the things I learned in that job was that local governments are aware of dangerous intersections, but won't do anything about them until someone is killed. They intentionally maintain the danger, hoping that someone will be killed, because then they can make an argument for permission and funding for whatever control measures they want to impose at that intersection. Same thing is going on here. Lautenberg and his ilk have created a federal statute precisely to create enhanced threat of exactly this kind of violence in public schools in order to create a political climate for "gun control". I hold Lautenberg directly responsible for the deaths of those children in Connecticut.

I agree with that guy, politics has to stop being the issue; we need to take
truly effective action; and when we repeal the GFSZ act and allow school
personnel to be armed, things will go back to the way they were prior to
passage of the act.

We need to repeal the "gun free school zone act" and arm school teachers right away! One thing is clear, gun-free crime zones cost lives because social deviants think, "it's like shootin' fish in a barrel." If "gun control" laws worked, Prince George's County, Maryland would be the safest place on the East Coast. I'd be in favor of sending the fiscal bus over the cliff, even if it means higher taxes, if it also means a reduction in the federal bureacracy and particularly if it means no compromise on RKBA.
 
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Lasjayhawk

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
289
Location
Las Vegas
By all the press accounts, (and I tend to take them with a grain of salt) the principal died trying to stop the attacker by hand. If the principal had been armed this may well have ended in the hall with no kids hurt.

But that would be to easy.

IMHO If we got rid of the GFSZ and replaced it with a special enhancement that added 10 years (or 20 or 30) to the sentence for committing a crime in a SZ with a firearm, wouldn't that work better? Nothing is going to stop an unbalanced person on a suicide mission, but it might stop lesser criminals, yet allow the good guys to be able to defend themselves.
 

randian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
380
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Why would he re-instate an AWB when the first one was useless? Why would he re-instate an AWB when the majority of firearms that would be restricted are only used in less than 3% of crime? Why would he re-instate an AWB when it will do NOTHING to lower the crime rate, but will certainly help to raise that rate?
For the same reason he doesn't care whether the tax increases he's pushing will actually gain net revenue. He wants to crush those he disfavors, collateral damage be damned.
 

nonameisgood

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
1,008
Location
Big D
CNN reporting that a guy in a mall parking lot in California shot 50 rounds into the air for no apparent reason.

More fuel for the fire.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Yet another goof with a gun.

At least he didn't hit anything.

There are a lot of goofs with guns, as well as goofs with cars, goofs with knives, and even progressive goofs with guns. It's the goofs who believe a firearm is something more than just a tool, and some power wand to be feared that concern me, those are the ones IMO that are likely to go over the deep end. We should give every progressive a mental health check and then take away their cars, knives, and guns.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
There are a lot of goofs with guns, as well as goofs with cars, goofs with knives, and even progressive goofs with guns. It's the goofs who believe a firearm is something more than just a tool, and some power wand to be feared that concern me, those are the ones IMO that are likely to go over the deep end. We should give every progressive a mental health check and then take away their cars, knives, and guns.

Excellent idea. Also, let's throw in the far-right militia types, since they have all kinds of kooky notions about what to do with guns. Then, let's toss the tea-baggers into the mix, since they're only a step away from militia types anyway. Then we might as well add the rest of conservatives, because they're practically all tea-baggers anyway.

/Brady Bunch response
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
CNN reporting that a guy in a mall parking lot in California shot 50 rounds into the air for no apparent reason.

More fuel for the fire.

Maybe his wife called him on the cell phone after shopping and he was just letting her know where the car was...

Really, that is odd behavior not easily explained. Maybe we'll find out later.
 

SAvage410

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
187
Location
Falls Church, Virginia, USA

HankT

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
6,215
Location
Invisible Mode
Hmm, are we as firearm owners ready to acknowledge its easier to slaughter 27 people with a firearm than a knife?

Surely, that is true. Much, much easier.

Especially with a bunch of 30-round mags in a very good quality rifle.

No way can you break into a locked facility with only a knife and in 2 or 3 minutes kill 27 people, including some who are rushing you.

Acknowledging that is easy. No one can disagree with that.
 
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SAvage410

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
187
Location
Falls Church, Virginia, USA
By the numbers

Number of casualties of school violence since Columbine: 120 (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings_in_the_United_States)
Number of Chicago Homicides alone, 20120101-20121203 479 (source: https://data.cityofchicago.org/Public-Safety/2012-Chicago-Murder-Statistics/ws3w-ba2s)

Similarities: All schools and Chicago claim to be either "gun-free zones", or heavily restrict firearm possession by peaceable citizens.

In the wake of this latest tragedy, a teacher and the principal are singled out - the principal for attempting to disarm the perp by hand, the teacher for shielding her students with her body. Had either been armed and shot back, the body count would have been far less than it was, and may have ended at 2 - that of the perp and, unfortunately, his mother.
 

randian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
380
Location
Phoenix, AZ
No way can you break into a locked facility with only a knife and in 2 or 3 minutes kill 27 people, including some who are rushing you. Acknowledging that is easy. No one can disagree with that.
Sarcasm? I absolutely do disagree with that, especially since 20 of the dead are small children. You're more likely to die in a knife fight than a gun fight. Maybe the children could stop a knife attacker, if they engage him en masse. Not the way I'd bet, though, more likely they cower in the corner where they are easily slaughtered. So yeah, a skilled fighter could easily kill a bunch of children in a single room with a knife. The big disadvantage of the knife is that it's a lot harder to keep people from locking you up, so that will probably be the only room you get to attack.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Hmm, are we as firearm owners ready to acknowledge its easier to slaughter 27 people with a firearm than a knife? Im not stating we ought to restrict or ban firearms, just pointing out how nonsensicle it is to be climbing aboard your wagon right now.

Why would you bother to acknowledge it? Doing so merely concedes the underlying anti-gunner's contrived premise that ease or difficulty justifies rendering innocents defenseless. And, its definitely contrived--they'll invent any argument to restrict self-defense. They'll grasp at any straw, invent any argument, no matter how senseless.

They're not going to concede anything to you; no point in conceding anything to them. No point in yielding the initiative.

I'm thinking pro-gunners shouldn't let this blow over. Stay on the offensive and demand repeal of GFSZ. Then constitutional carry. Then...maintain the initiative, stay on the offensive.

As surely as night follows day, there is going to be another mass shooting. Do we wait around and let those next kids be slaughtered?
 
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KWP

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
16
Location
LU
Number of casualties of school violence since Columbine: 120 (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings_in_the_United_States)
Number of Chicago Homicides alone, 20120101-20121203 479 (source: https://data.cityofchicago.org/Public-Safety/2012-Chicago-Murder-Statistics/ws3w-ba2s)

Similarities: All schools and Chicago claim to be either "gun-free zones", or heavily restrict firearm possession by peaceable citizens.

In the wake of this latest tragedy, a teacher and the principal are singled out - the principal for attempting to disarm the perp by hand, the teacher for shielding her students with her body. Had either been armed and shot back, the body count would have been far less than it was, and may have ended at 2 - that of the perp and, unfortunately, his mother.

True, but a school massacre is much more "sensational" than hundreds of unrelated murders.

And the hundreds of lives possibly saved by OC'ing / CC'ing bystanders every year... not eventful at all.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
I understand the concern y'all have over the anti-gun bleatings of Bloomberg, Obama and the rest of the "gun control" crowd. This is a legitimate concern. Especially when you begin to realize the TRUE NATURE of this event...

"Other law enforcement officials also speaking on condition of anonymity have said the gunman apparently left a high-powered rifle in the back of a car he drove to school. "
(AP report, 9:48, Friday, 14 December 2012)
http://www.whsv.com/home/headlines/BREAKING-School-Shooting-Reported-in-Newtown-Conn-183506881.html


The official says a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both pistols, and a .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle were found in the school after the massacre Friday.

The official says that a fourth weapon was found outside the school and that investigators have been going to shooting ranges and gun stores to see if Lanza had frequented them.

(AP report, 15 December 2012)
http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/183633791.html


So let's get this straight. Sometime between 9:48pm on Friday night, and late Saturday afternoon, this rifle somehow got out of the car and into the school, retroactively shot all the victims, and then was found beside the shooters body, where it was not reported as being on the day of the event, or for nearly 36 hours of news cycle afterward.

And then a shotgun materialized in it's place in the car, which was not reported as being on the scene at all for the first 36 hours after the event.

And originally one of the pistols was identified as a Glock 9mm. Now the report is that it was a 10mm. This is an IMPOSSIBLE mistake to make, since EVERY Glock ever made has it's caliber and model number stamped clearly on the left side of the slide in 1/2" high letters, right above the trigger. The 10mm is designated by the marking "10mm Auto" and the 9mm is designated by the marking "9x19". There is simply NO way to get this confused if the person identifying the weapon has functional vision and is literate.

Who is running this investigation, the Warren Commission?

When are the American People going to realize that the official reporting of this event coming from the Connecticut State Police simply does not pass the sniff test...
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
You missed my point. I'm just saying we don't need to make this about our rights, right now. Let the national outrage diminish.
No.

Outrageous that not a single adult was/is permitted to defend themselves or the kids under their charge.

Outrageous that there was/is not a police presence available to protect the kids if the adults are not permitted to defend themselves and the kids?

Outrageous that the citizenry is forced, under the penalty of law, to delegate the safety of their kids to adults who can not, for whatever reason, protect their children.

I'm sure that those surviving children at the school would be comforted by seeing their teachers OCing ./s
Well, my kids see Daddy and Mama with a pistol on their hip outside of the home. And, on occasion, they know Daddy and Mama have a pistol hidden under their clothes. My seven year old asked a very simple question of me when we discussed this event. "Why don't teachers have guns?" I asked him what would his teachers do with a gun, and he said "Kill the bad people." The clarity of a seven year old mind.

The discussion must be about LE and the law(s).

LE could not stop this event. LE can not stop these events. This should be the first message to parents. The only message to parents. When parents realize, or accept, that LE can not be there to protect their kids then the laws will change or new laws will be enacted. There are only two choices; allow citizens to defend themselves, or disarm the citizenry outside of the home and leave the safety of our kids to LE. Tragically we have once again witnessed the complete failure of the later to occur.

What choice remains for the citizenry, rely upon the unreliable, or rely upon themselves.
 

riverrat10k

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
1,472
Location
on a rock in the james river
Here is one of my favorite bloggers', Karl Deninger and his Market Ticker, take on this. Echos user to a large degree.

"Next, let's talk about the adults in the school. We already require training on sexual assault, child abuse and similar issues for school teachers and administrators. Why do we omit self-defense from this list, when our teachers and administrators claim the right of in loco parentis during school hours for our children?
That omission is asinine."

"You can claim this change in the law and policy would be ineffective if you wish but in point of fact Israel, in the 1970s, faced a rash of terrorist attacks on their schools. Israel also heard people screaming for more gun control, as we do today. Their government analyzed the problem and decided to do the opposite and as I am advocating here -- they trained and armed their teachers instead.

What happened?

School shootings ceased as schools were no longer "soft" targets full of people who could not shoot back."

Entire article here: http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=214983
 
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