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E. Volokh on Guns and Strict Liability

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“From Illinois Appellate Court Judge David Ellis's concurring opinion two weeks ago in People v. Lee:
[ ... ]
[E. V. Comment] Sounds right to me, though I generally oppose strict liability in criminal statutes. For the U.S. Supreme Court's (complicated) approach to the matter, see Staples v. U.S. (1994); that case read the federal law banning unlicensed possession of guns capable of automatic fire as requiring proof that the defendant knew the gun was so capable, but other Supreme Court weapons cases have reached other results, as the Staples opinion notes.”

http://reason.com/volokh/2019/01/13/more-on-guns-and-strict-liability#comment
 

OC for ME

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...changed, altered, removed, or obliterated commits a Class 3 felony. ...
Sooo, a scratch on a serial number meets the threshold of this statute. I've got a couple of guns that have seen better days...though, I wont be going to Illinois anytime soon.
 

since9

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Sooo, a scratch on a serial number meets the threshold of this statute...
Might, although if you'll read the rest of the article...

As written, the statute thus takes the form of a "strict" or "absolute" liability offense: It has no explicit mens rea requirement.

The legislature can create absolute liability for a felony, but only if it "clearly indicates" its intent to do so. 720 ILCS 5/4-9. That intent will not be inferred from the "mere absence" of a mens rea requirement in the statute. People v. Gean, 143 Ill. 2d 281 (1991). As Stanley correctly noted, there is no clear statement of that intent in section 24-5(b). Thus, we must presume that the legislature did not intend to impose absolute liability for possessing a defaced firearm.

To avoid absolute liability, a mens rea must be inferred into the statute.


The fix is simple: Write your legislators, point out the error, and call for mens rea inclusive wording.
 

OC for ME

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What motivates you to infer, publicly, that I did not read the entire article. Then again, you could claim that you are using my post as a vehicle to respond a different member...again.
 

OC for ME

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Your comment, "Sooo, a scratch on a serial number meets the threshold of this statute..." in conjunction with the rest of the article.
Several of my routinely used guns have scratches, and a scratch or two is likely on the serial number. Is the number changed or altered? Only a judge will determine. Even if the judge determines in my favor I am harmed by the cop, prosecutor and judge...irreparably.

The law cited in the article is another Heien situation. Cops are not interested in black letter law, only their field manual, and policies handed down from his like minded anti-liberty overseers.

 

since9

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Even if the judge determines in my favor I am harmed by the cop, prosecutor and judge...irreparably.
Tell me, OC for ME: Are you harmed, irreparably, when the highway patrol stops you for driving 11 mph over the speed limit? I've been to court, including facing "the cop, prosecutor and judge" on four different occasions. I've never been "harmed, irreparably" by that process. Frankly, it was my own damned fault for speeding that I was there in the first place. Even the one instance I stood before a judge when the cop got everything completely wrong, I still suffered no "irreparable harm."

How does any part of the process harm you irreparably, OC for ME? I must be missing something...

{quote]Cops are not interested in black letter law, only their field manual, and policies handed down from his like minded anti-liberty overseers.[/quote]

I've studied both General Orders books (Field and Administrative) used by our local police, and alongside our state law. I did spot half a dozen points where it seemed there was a disconnect. I simply wrote it up and sent it to the Chief of Police, cc-ing our Mayor's office. Nothing harsh. Just, "While recently reviewing your General Orders alongside our Colorado Revised Statutes, I noticed what appear to be some discrepancies. I've listed those discrepancies for you in the following paragraphs.

The thank you letter was very nice. :)
 

OC for ME

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MARTIN COUNTY, Fla. – Matt Crull, 29, spent 41 days in jail wrongly accused, according to the Martin County Sheriff’s Office. https://fox2now.com/2019/01/29/florida-spends-41-days-in-jail-after-deputy-mistakes-detergent-for-heroin/
A Georgia woman spent more than three months in jail on drug charges after sheriff’s deputies mistook congealed cotton candy they found in a car she was riding in for methamphetamine. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/28/us/woman-jailed-cotton-candy-meth.html
The above examples indicate to me that cop "mistakes" cause irreparable harm. You are, of course, free to define what is considered irreparable harm for our fellow citizens.
“It was me admitting freely that my department screwed up and we did a disservice to this man and his family,” O’Meara said. “There’s no getting around it, the Ashland Police Department botched this investigation and got it wrong. I remain apologetic to this man, his family and to our community. It shouldn’t have happened.” https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2018/11/ashland-cops-mistakenly-arrest-black-man-hold-him-in-jail-custody-for-10-hours.html
This one below is a real peach.
It is not just me making this singular point.
False arrest is a rare but real problem that can have searing consequences, from job loss to the destruction of a reputation. Unlike the more high-profile issue of wrongful convictions, no one tracks exactly how many cases of false arrest occur across the country. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/a-claustrophobic-claims-he-was-mistakenly-arrested-and-put-in-a-jail-cell-here-is-what-happened/2017/08/24/5bcc0636-82a8-11e7-b359-15a3617c767b_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8167716c0d8f
Irreparable harm? You may hold a differing view.
 
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