Does it make you fell big?

[Grapeshot]

gunfacts seems like a gun selling propaganda site to me:
That, sir, speak volumes about you and you goals here.

and as far as the average distance / time / duration of a self defense shooting
I know this
Yet you do not cite them.

you cant always watch your 6'oclock and 12oclock
& if they are close enough to harm you physically they can also grab your gun and possibly end up killing you with it
Same red herrings - you get the .00001% "possibility" the remainder lies with those who take their responsibility seriously.

if they also have a firearm / projectile weapon then were talking about a firefight & thats totally off topic
By what determination do you decide what is OT and what is not? Legal use of deadly force presumes that the other actor has the means and will to cause great harm. Without one, the other does not exist - therefore it is decidedly not off topic - it is within the natural progression of this thread.

I'm not an expert in anything just using common sense

Some of my comments are embedded above in blue.

There is some apparent truth in your last self-depreciating statement, but I must question the last part - common sense. It would seem that rather than engage in a genuine learning experience, you have cloaked yourself in the style of an agent provocateur.

 

[Aknazer]

I agree but also i see people saying
"training shouldn't be part of a right to carry a gun"
& constitutionally that is correct

But also that is letting people carry guns in code white as you say?
So they could be killed by their own gun or robbed of it just under the disillusion that they are safe by carrying it

& since this site really does not tell you to get any training before OC'ing or to know what to do in specific situations i guess it's up the the end user to make those decisions...

One could apply this logic to other rights as well. For example, freedom of religion,press, speech can all result in causing people to do things like become a terrorist, or commit a hate crime, or cause sole other type of issue. So does this mean that the government should put out various rules and classes before you can exercise your first amendment right? Hell no! And even if the government were to do something like this that doesn't mean it would have any real effect. Even with "training" you would still have people walking around in condition white. And dealing with these occasional incidents is simply part of being a free society.

And as for the gun grab linked, that doesn't change the fact that its still a statistical improbability, or that the person likely shouldn't of been carrying to begin with. And it highlights why I do my best to not speak in absolutes.

 

[Grapeshot]

And as for the gun grab linked, that doesn't change the fact that its still a statistical improbability, or that the person likely shouldn't of been carrying to begin with. And it highlights why I do my best to not speak in absolutes.

The link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx_YUO4SzcY did not provide any evidence of a "gun grab." It was an armed robbery and only that with the exception that I have read follow ups that think it may have been staged.

In any event, he would he have been no better off if CCing or not armed.

 

[Aknazer]

like i said meeting people in stores and stuff arguing or debating or any of that does not scare or worry me

It's out in the real world tho where there are real threats
Like i said 2 people have been shot dead within 200 yards of my house

You can OC to make a political statement (and i feel alot of people do)
or you can OC to defend yourself
But if you choose to carry the gun for protection you should also keep in mind you could be killed by your own gun
It's a possibility each of us needs to take into consideration

It's a possibility that has to be taken into consideration bit its also an improbability. Only 2% of cop assaults happen with their own gun and they REGULARLY deal with dangerous people. Now really what chances do you think someone who avoids dangerous people has? It should be a lot smaller than 2%.

gunfacts seems like a gun selling propaganda site to me:

and as far as the average distance / time / duration of a self defense shooting
I know this

you cant always watch your 6'oclock and 12oclock
& if they are close enough to harm you physically they can also grab your gun and possibly end up killing you with it

if they also have a firearm / projectile weapon then were talking about a firefight & thats totally off topic

I'm not an expert in anything just using common sense

And here's another issue. Have you even read gun facts? It lists its sources for pretty much all of its information; which is a lot more than you or most antis can say. Instead you use the common sense of fear and ignore actual statistics and history. You also come up with fake situations that "could" happen and talk as if they are common; but yet history has shown us that they are rare.

Yes you should train. No the government shouldn't mandate it. Yes bad things happen even when trained. No nothing is 100% foolproof. Yes both oc and cc have their pluses and minuses. No you shouldn't oc if your so worried about your gun being used against you.

 

[CarryHard]

Some of my comments are embedded above in blue.

There is some apparent truth in your last self-depreciating statement, but I must question the last part - common sense. It would seem that rather than engage in a genuine learning experience, you have cloaked yourself in the style of an agent provocateur.

I'm not going to give myself credit with this analogy someone else made it
but having guns without training is like driving a car without a license

All im trying to say is saftey is the biggest problem here
especially when you could end up getting yourself killed or the target of a violent crime when some thug wants to steal a 1,000$ gun he cant buy because he has a record

Edit: and my gun would be the most expensive thing i carry
Not even my 600$ droid phone costs more

 

[sultan62]

I'm not going to give myself credit with this analogy someone else made it
but having guns without training is like driving a car without a license

All im trying to say is saftey is the biggest problem here
especially when you could end up getting yourself killed or the target of a violent crime when some thug wants to steal a 1,000$ gun he cant buy because he has a record

Edit: and my gun would be the most expensive thing i carry
Not even my 600$ droid phone costs more

Poor choice of words. I, probably in addition to others here, believe a license should not be needed to drive either. Furthermore, having a license doesn't mean you can drive well, just as having a CHP means next to nothing regarding actual ability.

It has been said before and bears repeating:

Arguing hypotheticals is pointless. If you catch yourself using the words may, might, could, if, possibly, etc., you're arguing hypotheticals. You don't seem to understand that there is no point to this. It is impossible to prepare for every possible situation you might ever encounter. Train for the most likely first, and the least likely last.

Oh, and congrats on your $1000 gun and $600 phone. That makes me think so much more of you.

 

[CarryHard]

Poor choice of words. I, probably in addition to others here, believe a license should not be needed to drive either. Furthermore, having a license doesn't mean you can drive well, just as having a CHP means next to nothing regarding actual ability.

It has been said before and bears repeating:

Arguing hypotheticals is pointless. If you catch yourself using the words may, might, could, if, possibly, etc., you're arguing hypotheticals. You don't seem to understand that there is no point to this. It is impossible to prepare for every possible situation you might ever encounter. Train for the most likely first, and the least likely last.

Oh, and congrats on your $1000 gun and $600 phone. That makes me think so much more of you.

Not saying my pistol was 1,000$ but if you do the math it's probably the most expensive thing your carrying

People usually have a motive for robbery & money is one
If they dont know you have it then why would they be interested in stealing it!

 

[edrolee]

for me i use a retention holster and i ALWAYS carry a good, easy to access and easy to open one handed knife withe me (even when not OC, usually clipped to my strong side back pocket or weak side if i'm OC) my idea being you never know when you'll need a knife to open something and it can provide a bit of personal protection

my plan of action if, GOD forbid, anyone does attempt to grab my gun is to clamp down on their hand while the pistol is still in it's holster and use my knife to end the attack ASAP rather than end up wrestling on the ground

we each have trained our selves as much as we think to do so and none of know how things will go down when the SHTF, we hope we know but we don't till it happens

i'm sure most of us have back-up plans in case things go south, one of the other things i do besides the knife is i have a fob on my key ring and always pocket my keys so that the fob is sticking out of my pocket so that i may grab it and swing away with my keys as if they were a flail

life is one big (or little) risk after another all any of us can do is plan for the worst and be prepared

 

[Jim675]

Not saying my pistol was 1,000$ but if you do the math it's probably the most expensive thing your carrying

People usually have a motive for robbery & money is one
If they dont know you have it then why would they be interested in stealing it!

And if they don't know you have a gun how would it deter them from robbing you?

Or are you hoping that after they stick a weapon in your face you'll get the chance to draw from concealment and fire before you're harmed?

 

[cricketdad]

Just read it. Which part did you play in that drama?

both victims were people I used to shoot with

 

[cricketdad]

This doesn't state how the bg got the guy's gun. For all we know the person attempted to pull the gun too close to the bg and got disarmed. So while it is possible that it was a gun grab, by following the provided link we can't say. As for the person saying the guy who recovered was later targeted because he OCed, how do you know this. He could have been targeted by someone after revenge unless you know something that you're not sharing..

The only one who knows how he got the gun is the BG. He lawyered up.

 

[Brion]

Back to the Title.

"Does it make you feel big?"

Me: "Does me having this gun make you feel small?"

 

[Grapeshot]

..... having guns without training is like driving a car without a license

All im trying to say is saftey is the biggest problem here
especially when you could end up getting yourself killed or the target of a violent crime when some thug wants to steal a 1,000$ gun he cant buy because he has a record

Fail - No cigar, not even the soggy butt of one.

CCing w/o a permit where one is required is comparable to driving w/o a license - both licenses are taxes for a privilege.

Having a gun has been likened to having health insurance, a fire extinguisher, locks on your doors and other protections against somewhat unlikely events.

How much training do you advocate before using the 1st Amendment? Do you have training qualifying yourself for that?

 

[mekender]

if they are close enough to harm you physically they can also grab your gun and possibly end up killing you with it

After specifically looking for over 2 years, I was able to come up with exactly 2 instances where a non-LEO was specifically targeted because of the gun on his hip.

Do criminals sometimes grab guns out of holsters? Sure... But the vast majority of those times it is a uniformed LEO that is scuffling with a perp.

 

[Spearhead]

My incident was almost identical.

I'm standing in line at the convenient store and the lady behind me says..."Does carrying that gun on your hip make you feel superior <insert smart-ass smirk here>?"

"No ma'am. It usually makes me feel more secure. But in your case, yes, it is mostly superiority."

She clammed up and didn't say another word.

 

[sultan62]

My incident was almost identical.

I'm standing in line at the convenient store and the lady behind me says..."Does carrying that gun on your hip make you feel superior <insert smart-ass smirk here>?"

"No ma'am. It usually makes me feel more secure. But in your case, yes, it is mostly superiority."

She clammed up and didn't say another word.

I like it!

 

[Dreamer]

But if you choose to carry the gun for protection you should also keep in mind you could be killed by your own gun
It's a possibility each of us needs to take into consideration

Please cite a single reliable report of this happening to a law-abiding citizen who was OCing.

Then we can continue this discussion. Until then, however, you are starting to raise red flags as a troll, and will probably be treated as one if you don't stop making random claims and parroting the party line of the Brady Campaign.

We've done the research. Many of us spend HOURS each week searching through police reports, media reports, and government studies and statistics. We know the FACTS, and we discuss them here--we do not tolerate emotional propaganda that has no basis in provable fact.

GunFacts is a well-researched source. He gleans all his data from scholarly studies published in peer-reviewed journals and government statistics. GunFacts is PROFUSELY footnoted, and is practically dripping with verifiable citations.

You have not offered one legitimate citation for any of the assertions you make.

We take this seriously--it's not a game that you can just say ANYTHING and people will fall into line. Do the research, and then we'll talk.

Otherwise, you are getting REALLY close to the "ignore" button for a LOT of members...

 

[Dreamer]

All im trying to say is saftey is the biggest problem here
especially when you could end up getting yourself killed or the target of a violent crime when some thug wants to steal a 1,000$ gun he cant buy because he has a record

Edit: and my gun would be the most expensive thing i carry
Not even my 600$ droid phone costs more

I feel sorry for you... You are obviously on this forum for the WRONG reasons...

The most valuable thing I carry is my grand-daughter. Unfortunately, she lives in MD, where it is nearly impossible for law-abiding citizens to carry a firearm for self-defense.

I carry a Novak Custom Para S-14.45 here in NC (valued at somewhere around $1500) to protect her, and the rest of my family, and to protect myself when I'm away from them, to try and be sure I will see them again soon. But when the weather is crappy or I'm carrying concealed I tote a $400 Glock.

The cost of the gun matters little--as long as it goes "BANG" when I hit the switch, I don't care if my firearm is gold-plated and diamond studded, or looks like it's made out of pressure-cast dog poo.

And I have no idea how much my iPhone3GS REALLY cost, because we got it on a "family plan discount", and I paid something like $100 for it. But it's functionality, reliability, and ease of use make it very valuable to me.

What is IMPORTANT is that I have the RIGHT to defend myself against violence, which I have in 40+ states. The most valuable thing I have is my life, and the most valuable things in my life are are my family.

Perhaps you should re-evaluate the things you value in your life. You seem to have many of your facts wrong. You don't seem to "get" the whole Open Carry" thing at all. And your priorities appear to be VERY far afield from most of the respectable members of this forum.

Time to "re-calibrate", bro.

Take a deep breath. Do some real research. Lurk for a while. Then we'll talk...

 

[razor_baghdad]

From CC instructor putting out bad poop to 'mis-informed' lurker troll, this thread has been very enlightening.

WTFOVER?

To the OP. I don't 'fell' big, I feel 'protected'.

 

[FTG-05]

[snip]

Otherwise, you are getting REALLY close to the "ignore" button for a LOT of members...

Speaking of which, how do you do that on this forum?

Thanks,