Denied my CHP

[nuc65]

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user wrote:

It didn't occur to me to wonder, before, but in going through the preceding posts, it occurred to me to think about this: did the applicant actually request an ore tenus hearing? He knows that it has to be done in writing and in proper legal form, right?

In writing works, I believe that all that is needed is a letter requesting an ore tenus hearing in this matter as per case # XXXX. Written documentation is always the best route for anything. I believe the court clerk will give it over to the judges secretary who then places it on the calendar, but it may only be covered in an open court session with all the other traffic stops, misdemeanors, and like business that the court deals with on a regular basis.

If he misses the deadline for the ore tenus request, I think he has 60 days from the expiration of the date to request the ore tenus hearing to file an appeal with Court of Appeals, at least I think that was the wording in my previous post. But if you miss the ore tenus hearing then you will definitely want a lawyer because at that point your lawyer will have to explain in legalese why you missed the ore tenus hearing. Probably something about not believing you would get a fair hearing, the sheriff introducing a legal bogeyman etc etc etc ad infinitum ad naseum e plurbis unum

 

[user]

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Nope, the time limits are jurisdictional. Miss the deadline and you're sunk. No amount of legalese will give the court jurisdiction to do something it has no power to do.

 

[peter nap]

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user wrote:

peter nap wrote:

...There is a reason lawyers are called a "Mouthpiece" (No Offense User). That's what they do for a living.

No offense taken.

By the way, I've checked the docket for the Isle of Wight Circuit Court for January 20, and there is no case on that date for a hearing on an appeal from a denial of CHP.

I've never heard of a clerk's office picking a hearing date for someone. The normal practice is to file a praecipe setting a hearing on a particular date. I'm guessing that no one at the clerk's office said anything about filing a praecipe. My guess is that this is a scam designed to make sure the applicant loses out on his time deadline.

The clerks' offices can't give legal advice, and if the applicant relied on the clerk to tell him what to do, he's very likely screwed himself. I told him to call me to chat about it at no charge, but it may well be too late, now.


It didn't occur to me to wonder, before, but in going through the preceding posts, it occurred to me to think about this: did the applicant actually request an ore tenus hearing? He knows that it has to be done in writing and in proper legal form, right?

I've been thinking the same thing. I think what he has is an appointment to meet the Judge in Chambers. Nothing else.

 

[Mike]

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user wrote:

Nope, the time limits are jurisdictional. Miss the deadline and you're sunk. No amount of legalese will give the court jurisdiction to do something it has no power to do.

OK, but one does not need to request an ore tenus hearing in order to maintain elegibility to appeal the denial to the Va. App. Ct.

In fact if you have a problem with a specific court issuing these permits, it might be better to simply appeal rather than quietly make a single denial go away.

 

[user]

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Mike wrote:

user wrote:

Nope, the time limits are jurisdictional. Miss the deadline and you're sunk. No amount of legalese will give the court jurisdiction to do something it has no power to do.

OK, but one does not need to request an ore tenus hearing in order to maintain elegibility to appeal the denial to the Va. App. Ct.

In fact if you have a problem with a specific court issuing these permits, it might be better to simply appeal rather than quietly make a single denial go away.

True, but I've had pretty good luck with these in the circuit court so far, and I'm not optimistic about how the ct of apps will treat CHP applications.

 

[since9]

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Neplusultra wrote:

Here you go, 18.2-308 E7, this is a list of people who are to be denied, one of the conditions is:

7. An individual who has been convicted of two or more misdemeanors within the five-year period immediately preceding the application, if one of the misdemeanors was a Class 1 misdemeanor, but the judge shall have the discretion to deny a permit for two or more misdemeanors that are not Class 1. Traffic infractions and misdemeanors set forth in Title 46.2 shall not be considered for purposes of this disqualification.


Since your infractions were more than five years ago they CANNOT deny you. But you're going to have to fight them.Give them a black eye for me :^). I'm not sure if you can go directly to the judge or not or just bring this up with the Sheriff, he might be able to get it corrected for you. Quote this section to him.

Good find, Neplusultra!

Yes, one can always go directly to the judge. You'll have to write, though. The judge will probably never see you in person unless you file a motion and go through the legal hoopla. But you can always write a letter.

Be warned, though: Judges rarely write their own orders. So find a copy of one to use as an example, and type it up. It can be as simple as:

Upon hearing further evidence as presented to me by Mr. X on (date), specifically with regard to 18.2-308 E7 and it's applicability in Mr. X's case, I found there are no legal grounds upon which to deny Mr. X a concealed carry permit. I hereby reverse my previous decision on this matter.

I hereby approve Mr. X's request for a concealed carry permit.
​

Good luck!

 

[1000ydshooter]

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Hi all soryy i haven been on to keep everyone up dated.User i didnt know i had to request one in writing.I went ot clearks off to see if i could get a copy of my application file.They are the ones that suggested a hearing with the judge. was told the hearing was at 10 am,but they said to get there about 915 am,as the judge would most likly want to see me in chambers first.

 

[Thundar]

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So what happened at your meeting with the judge??

 

[Grapeshot]

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Thundar wrote:

So what happened at your meeting with the judge??

We're sitting on pins and noodles.

Yata hey

 

[jegoodin]

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So??? What happpened when you met with the judge?

 

[1000ydshooter]

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Ok guys here is the latest.The judge met with the sheriff and myself in chambers before the hearing. The sheriff stated why he was denying my CHP,and why he believev i would handle a firearm in a manner that would endanger myself and the public. I stated why i thought this was wrong and citied the state statues that applied. The judge agreed with me and granted my permit.He also told the sheriff than maybe he should learn and understand the statues. i recieved my permit in the mail 2 days later.

 

[wylde007]

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What? A VICTORY?!?!

And to further have a judge tell a Sheriff what's what right in front of you?

God bless that man and God bless you.

Holy carp... the system works?

 

[TFred]

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That's a great story. A victory, with a cherry on top!

Congratulations!

TFred

 

[fully_armed_biker]

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That is a great outcome! It's been14 days, today, since I submitted my paperwork for my CHP. I sure as heck don't want to have to go through this B.S.

 

[Wolf_shadow]

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Congradulations That Sheriff needed to be set straight. :celebrate

 

[TFred]

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I hope your tail lights don't end up mysteriously smashed....

TFred

 

[Repeater]

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Wolf_shadow wrote:

Congratulations That Sheriff needed to be set straight. :celebrate

That 'Sheriff' is a constitutional officer.

He needs to be replaced.

 

[Wolf_shadow]

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Repeater wrote:

Wolf_shadow wrote:

Congratulations That Sheriff needed to be set straight. :celebrate

That 'Sheriff' is a constitutional officer.

He needs to be replaced.

He is also an elected officer if the residents of the area put him there they can vote him out. But while he is in office he needs to know the job!:banghead:

 

[Mike]

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Well I guess things work differently in some courthouses re this CHP thing - the Sherriff actually said he was not going to grant your permit? That's the judges decision . . . wow. yeah, maybe make this an election issue for this Sheriff.

 

[10mm]

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Kick butt!