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DC files a Motion for Reconsideration in Palmer v. DC handgun carry case

marshaul

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Aug 13, 2007
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Fairfax County, Virginia
I've tried to talk people out of getting permits, but most can't conceive of carrying without a permission slip.

I can't conceive of asking permission to carry.

Luckily I live in NC where it's not required for OC.
Yeah, I find this odd as well. Asking for permission just makes me feel... icky. Like a child (or worse).

Yet many folks get some sort of positive reinforcement from the approbation of being permitted.

This is why permits are so insidious. Folks become "addicted" to that approbation, and while Constitutional Carry means their rights are finally being respected, it also means they lose any "special" status and any of the warm-n-fuzzies which accompany it.

That's a good litmus test, btw, for detecting the fundamental statist: he feels these psychological effects are not only good, but they're a necessary and intended part of a licensure scheme. Such a person will only be a lifelong enemy of liberty, I'm afraid. Those who feel the call of liberty tend to recoil from such psychological effects, advocating licensure (if, indeed, they do at all) solely for its utilitarian benefits.
 
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California Right To Carry

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Dec 21, 2013
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Yeah, I find this odd as well. Asking for permission just makes me feel... icky. Like a child (or worse).

Yet many folks get some sort of positive reinforcement from the approbation of being permitted.

This is why permits are so insidious. Folks become "addicted" to that approbation, and while Constitutional Carry means their rights are finally being respected, it also means they lose any "special" status and any of the warm-n-fuzzies which accompany it.

That's a good litmus test, btw, for detecting the fundamental statist: he feels these psychological effects are not only good, but they're a necessary and intended part of a licensure scheme. Such a person will only be a lifelong enemy of liberty, I'm afraid. Those who feel the call of liberty tend to recoil from such psychological effects, advocating licensure (if, indeed, they do at all) solely for its utilitarian benefits.
I've been saying the same thing for years. Just not as eloquently as you did here. Those who would condition a fundamental, enumerated right (or any right for that matter) on a government issued permission slip suffer from an irreparable psychological and moral defect. These people are far more dangerous than those with gun phobias because the latter doesn't own guns and as such the danger they present is at the ballot box. The armed statist is dangerous to life and liberty everywhere.


Charles Nichols – President of California Right To Carry
http://CaliforniaRightToCarry.org
 
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Toymaker

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Joined
Sep 22, 2006
Messages
175
Location
Washington, DC USA
Gentlemen,

I agree with you wholeheartedly. If you legally own that gun you should be able to possess it anywhere, which ever way you want to carry it.

OCDO is not our enemy. Keeping this website alive and out of scrutiny is very important. We need to stop fighting among one another and understand that we're all fighting for the same thing. People have carry permits because they don't want to be put in jail. Little good will any of us be to the 2A fight from a prison cell or homeless on the street because of the destruction of our livelihood. This fight takes time and we shouldn't be doing it only for us but for our children and grand children as well.

How many of you have the time and money to run for public office? My guess is very few including myself. I'd vote for you but you wouldn't make it to office because America's mindset isn't quite that far yet. That's our job, to continue to work to get America to the point where it understands that we don't need a permission slip to exercise a right. Let's do it intelligently and not let frustration take us off track.

I'm a pro-Second Amendment Black guy living in Washington DC. My votes are always protest votes and I always use an opportunity to let them know that I'm not happy with them. What keeps me going is the knowledge that there are millions of other people around the country with me who are fighting to change all of these ridiculous misguided laws nationwide and we're making steady progress.
 

marshaul

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Fairfax County, Virginia
People have carry permits because they don't want to be put in jail.
Sure.

But trust me, there are folks who get positive reinforcement from being permitted, and there are psychological effects from this. They're perhaps all the more insidious because nobody gets a permit (the first time anyway) for the sense of approbation; it's a side effect which colors their judgment later on down the road.

It's sort of like, nobody starts smoking for the addictive effects, but they're what keep many folks on the hook for life.
 
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77zach

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Feb 5, 2007
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Marion County, FL
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/dc-to-begin-accepting-first-applications-in-decades-for-concealed-firearm-permits/2014/10/16/9173ca86-5555-11e4-892e-602188e70e9c_story.html


Too funny. They will be like Hawaii, which has a licensing scheme, but won't issue any. The kourt will no doubt be satisfied that the right is now respected, just like the kourts for Maryland, NJ, NY, etc. The kourts have learned their lesson from Illinois, where they didn't realize how many people there wanted shall issue.

This kangaroo kourt will hear arguments on 11/20, but we know how it ends.

How many people in DC actually own handguns anyway? After the Heller "victory", it's still all but impossible to purchase a revolver.
 
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Grapeshot

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[strike]Freedom[/strike] control, [strike]liberty[/strike] control, [strike]Rights[/strike] control.
 

deepdiver

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Apr 2, 2007
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Southeast, Missouri, USA
Sure.

But trust me, there are folks who get positive reinforcement from being permitted, and there are psychological effects from this. They're perhaps all the more insidious because nobody gets a permit (the first time anyway) for the sense of approbation; it's a side effect which colors their judgment later on down the road.

It's sort of like, nobody starts smoking for the addictive effects, but they're what keep many folks on the hook for life.
There are some folks who get _____ from whatever. I got a CCW before I knew jack about OC besides out in the middle of nowhere. I keep it as a practical matter as CC is a better option for me in some situations, reciprocity and convenience. I also have professional licenses, driver's license, corporate licenses and permits, etc. All cost time and money and none make me safer or better at what I would do without licensing/permit schemes.

The fact is that licensing/permitting is not about allowing anyone to do anything but rather to screen/exclude certain people from doing it. Having these licenses/permits does not mean that the licensed party likes it, wants it or supports it. Further, most licensing/permit schemes are put in place in the name of public protection. Over time, most turn into a scheme to protect the status quo instead, typically led by a few connected parties. It is these connected parties who I think deserve the vitriol, not the regular Joe who complies with the scheme for personal convenience, legality or other practical matter.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,200
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
There are some folks who get _____ from whatever. I got a CCW before I knew jack about OC besides out in the middle of nowhere. I keep it as a practical matter as CC is a better option for me in some situations, reciprocity and convenience. I also have professional licenses, driver's license, corporate licenses and permits, etc. All cost time and money and none make me safer or better at what I would do without licensing/permit schemes.

The fact is that licensing/permitting is not about allowing anyone to do anything but rather to screen/exclude certain people from doing it. Having these licenses/permits does not mean that the licensed party likes it, wants it or supports it. Further, most licensing/permit schemes are put in place in the name of public protection. Over time, most turn into a scheme to protect the status quo instead, typically led by a few connected parties. It is these connected parties who I think deserve the vitriol, not the regular Joe who complies with the scheme for personal convenience, legality or other practical matter.
I think you're missing the point. If Joe is one of those people who has a permit for "personal convenience, legality or other practical matter" and gets no sense of approbation from it, then I wasn't talking about Joe.

I'm not sure Joe is in an overwhelming majority, however.
 

Thundar

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Sep 12, 2007
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Newport News, Virginia, USA
I confess. I have a VA permit, though I carry my handgun, like all of my firearms, openly. Why then do I have a permit? In Virginia the permission slip also "allows" one to openly carry something other than handguns when commonwealth law excludes carrying these devices when loaded in some cities. I am not being specific because I don't want to break the OCDO rules. I will get a permit and carry concealed in DC if that is my only legal method of carry.
 
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WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
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North Carolina

WalkingWolf

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North Carolina
I confess. I have a permit, though I carry my handgun, like all of my firearms, openly. Why then do I have a permit? In Virginia the permission slip also "allows" one to openly carry something other than handguns when commonwealth law excludes carrying these devices when loaded in some cities. I am not being specific because I don't want to break the OCDO rules.
I think mentioning accessories carried while OC is acceptable. But then I am not a mod. I am just guessing you are talking about fixed blade or large tactical knife. Here in NC though a permit only covers handguns, so if I carry a folder the blade has to be under 3.5 inches. I always carry my folder on my belt though in a open top sheath even though it is under the length. I don't like carrying a lot of junk in my pockets.
 

Grapeshot

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I confess. I have a VA permit, though I carry my handgun, like all of my firearms, openly. Why then do I have a permit? In Virginia the permission slip also "allows" one to openly carry something other than handguns when commonwealth law excludes carrying these devices when loaded in some cities. I am not being specific because I don't want to break the OCDO rules. I will get a permit and carry concealed in DC if that is my only legal method of carry.
Linking or quoting a statute that impacts our RKBA doesn't in and of itself violate the rules - it is the promoting of LG carry here that creates the problem.

Quite sure that you refer to § 18.2-287.4 wherein loaded long guns and certain pistols are restricted in the listed municipalities - a CHP provides an exemption to this statute.
https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-287.4

As I doubt that OC w/o a permit is coming anytime soon to DC, I can work with needing a permit to carry there - hopefully reciprocity/recognition will be part of the system.
 
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