Courts, encounters with locking up pistols while visiting.

[Freedom1Man]

There's probably a regulation about secure storing all firearms unloaded. If that IS the case, then they should make you unload it, and hand you one of those colored plastic chamber blocks with a number on it, which would then match any claim ticket they gave you. But then, I'm sure no one thought it out that far.

There is no law requiring it to be unloaded. There is a law requiring them to secure it though.

They get upset when I attempt to correct the problem after I get it back.



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[mnrobitaille]

Different facilities have different policies. All I do here is just remove holstered sidearm & spare magazines & place them in lockbox.

There is no law requiring it to be unloaded. There is a law requiring them to secure it though.

They get upset when I attempt to correct the problem after I get it back.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

 

[mnrobitaille]

Multiple Family Members conducting business at the court house

The past couple of visits I've done at the Franklin County Courthouse, both my mom & I have been carrying. It's common now for the security personnel to just ask us how many boxes. All we do is remove holstered sidearm (& spare magazines in my case) & place them in the boxes (no unloaded or removing of magazines). Lock the boxes then proceed normally through. On the way out, we stop, wait for the corresponding box to key & place holstered firearm back on hip before leaving.

 

[mnrobitaille]

Benton County Justice Center issues

I've visited the Benton County Justice Center in Kennewick a few times to conduct business with the Benton County Sheriff's Office. Each time I have gone through the security checkpoint at the Justice Center (Courthouse & Sheriff's Office) I am getting asked for CPL. Each time, when OCing, I have to explain to the security detail that Washington State is an open carry state & that a CPL is not required to OC. I, however, keep getting the same response that they ask to verify that I am legal to have firearm on me.

On top of this, with having a pacemaker, I bypass the metal detectors, & have a pat down. They seem to think I am a burden to them every time I go in as I'm always carrying & have to do the pat down cause of the pacemaker.

The couple of times I visited the Benton County Correctional Center (to set up & do a tour) there is a security checkpoint there, so if carrying I first have to do firearm check-in at the Justice Center security checkpoint, then go over to the Correctional Center security checkpoint, as the Correctional Center does not have lockboxes available.

Perhaps next time I go to conduct business there, I should have printouts with me of RCW 9.41.300 & other relevant regulations that states that I do not have to present CPL to secure firearm in lockbox.

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

Perhaps next time I go to conduct business there, I should have printouts with me of RCW 9.41.300 & other relevant regulations that states that I do not have to present CPL to secure firearm in lockbox.

Does not hurt to inform.

 

[solus]

remember my friend, you are not dealing with the brightest of the tri-cities employees!

if they are sworn LEs then you might presume they pulled the short duty straw to get the entrance detail and not pleased to be there in the first place as they might believe it is below their status as they should be on the street fighting crime.

if hired security, then they may believe they are are LE and need to show their testosterone enhanced status to customers and peers alike.

tis good to keep in mind you are the customer in this situation, visiting the county’s facility, and not a criminal turning yourself in.

btw, the peons on the line won’t care if you hand them the printed statute...next time go early & if hassled don’t get angered but smile while standing there and ask for a supervisor immediately, show the supervisor the printed statute, and ask that the security detail be appropriately trained so you, the customer, are not kept from conducting your business!

best to family...

 

[mnrobitaille]

remember my friend, you are not dealing with the brightest of the tri-cities employees!

if they are sworn LEs then you might presume they pulled the short duty straw to get the entrance detail and not pleased to be there in the first place as they might believe it is below their status as they should be on the street fighting crime.

if hired security, then they may believe they are are LE and need to show their testosterone enhanced status to customers and peers alike.

tis good to keep in mind you are the customer in this situation, visiting the county’s facility, and not a criminal turning yourself in.

btw, the peons on the line won’t care if you hand them the printed statute...next time go early & if hassled don’t get angered but smile while standing there and ask for a supervisor immediately, show the supervisor the printed statute, and ask that the security detail be appropriately trained so you, the customer, are not kept from conducting your business!

best to family...

As with Franklin County, the Benton County Justice Center security checkpoint is manned by a private security company which is overseen by the Sheriff's Department. Thankfully, I have connections within the Benton County Sheriff's Office that I can contact to ask them why security is requesting the CPLs be shown when entering, if OCing.

Concerning supervisors of the security contingent, the response I am getting is that whatever they say is law, no matter what is written as law.

 

[Tony617]

Jury Duty notice to serve at the King County Superior Court in downtown Seattle

I was sent a jury notice to serve at the downtown Seattle Superior Court. I was reading the posts in this thread so far but I did not see any thing about the downtown Seattle court house. Are there storage locks for CPL or open carry in the court house? Looking that the court house FAQ but it does not say anything about it. I have never been sent a jury notice before and since I have a full time job I have to serve.

Thank you,

Tony

 

[Grapeshot]

I was sent a jury notice to serve at the downtown Seattle Superior Court. I was reading the posts in this thread so far but I did not see any thing about the downtown Seattle court house. Are there storage locks for CPL or open carry in the court house? Looking that the court house FAQ but it does not say anything about it. I have never been sent a jury notice before and since I have a full time job I have to serve.

Thank you,

Tony

RCW 9.41.300

Weapons prohibited in certain places—Local laws and ordinances—Exceptions—Penalty.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300

 

[Tony617]

RCW 9.41.300

Weapons prohibited in certain places—Local laws and ordinances—Exceptions—Penalty.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300

I am well aware of Weapons prohibited in certain places, etc. I even found the FAQ of what you cannot bring too which including weapons. Just curious if they have storage lockers for firearms if I need to serve on a jury. Other court houses in other counties have store locker from reading this thread.not sure about Seattle Superior Court since it downtown Seattle.

 

[Grim_Night]

Short version, all Washington state courts are required by law to provide either lock boxes OR an officer to take possession of your firearm for the duration of your visit to the court house. Grape sited the law.

"For purposes of this subsection (1)(b), "weapon" means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or any weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or any knife, dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury.
In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building."

There are a few courts that will try to require that someone "checking in" a firearm also provide identification before they will allow you to "check in" your firearm. This is NOT a requirement of the law and thus is unlawful. My personal suggestion is to have a copy of RCW 9.41.300 printed out and and present it to any officer that tries to require identification. Be prepared to ask officers questions such as "Am I required to have identification on my person while walking down the street?" "Am I required to have a CPL on my person while lawfully open carrying in Washington state?" If the response to these questions is "No." Then follow up with "Then why am I required to provide identification to check in my firearm when entering the courthouse, when I am not required to have identification while walking down the street or have a CPL on my person while lawfully open carrying?"

Also, be prepared to record (at the very least audio) the interaction with the officer(s) (and you do not need to inform the officer(s) that you are recording as federal courts have ruled that any and all officers have no reasonable expectation of privacy during the commission of their duties as public servants).

Mind you, this does NOT apply to federal courts within Washington state.

 

[CitizenJohn]

It is interesting to note that last I checked, both court houses in Vancouver (County Court House and Juvenile Justice Center) would not accept knives, even when accompanied with a pistol.

 

[Grapeshot]

--snipped--
"For purposes of this subsection (1)(b), "weapon" means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or any weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or [highlight]any knife, [/highlight]dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury.
In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building."

It is interesting to note that last I checked, both court houses in Vancouver (County Court House and Juvenile Justice Center) would not accept knives, even when accompanied with a pistol.

The law indicates that they must accept knives for storage.

 

[Native2Kitsap]

I am glad you posted this because usually I'd just leave it in my car but sometimes my automatic locks malfunction and I come outside to find my car unlocked. I don't want somebody running around with my gun because the neighborhood around the courthouse and sheriff's office is actually pretty bad.

 

[Difdi]

It's quite the catch-22 if they don't check the weapons the law says they must. You must present yourself on time when summoned or it's a crime. You must not carry past the security checkpoint or it's a crime. If you took a bus or walked to the court house, there is no place to put the weapon that won't make you late for the summons.

I wonder though -- given that the courthouse not complying with the law would cause you to break the law in turn no matter what you do, wouldn't that allow for an entrapment defense against the resulting charge?

 

[KBCraig]

It's quite the catch-22 if they don't check the weapons the law says they must. You must present yourself on time when summoned or it's a crime. You must not carry past the security checkpoint or it's a crime. If you took a bus or walked to the court house, there is no place to put the weapon that won't make you late for the summons.

I wonder though -- given that the courthouse not complying with the law would cause you to break the law in turn no matter what you do, wouldn't that allow for an entrapment defense against the resulting charge?

That's when you call the clerk of the court to which you've been summoned, and tell them that you're trying to get in, but court security won't let you.

It creates a standoff, but you've done what you can to comply, and you've informed the court.

 

[tat2ed_guy]

I have frequented the Everett court house many times. Never had an issue. They always asked for my CPL. I didnt bother arguing about it since I drove there. Just figured they would follow me to the vehicle and ask for it again once I was there.

 

[mnrobitaille]

I have frequented the Everett court house many times. Never had an issue. They always asked for my CPL. I didnt bother arguing about it since I drove there. Just figured they would follow me to the vehicle and ask for it again once I was there.

Who is handling the security there??

Private company or local law enforcement?

I did a bit of retraining at the Franklin County Courthouse, due to some new staff being trained that they MUST ask for CPL in order to have a lockbox for firearm storage. The security there is a private company under the control of the Sheriff's Office. I rotate between OC & CC, though lately been OCing & I just mentioned that, technically, Washington State is an Open Carry state without requirement of CPL. They checked with the Captain & he verified what I was saying.

 

[tat2ed_guy]

Who is handling the security there??

Private company or local law enforcement?

I did a bit of retraining at the Franklin County Courthouse, due to some new staff being trained that they MUST ask for CPL in order to have a lockbox for firearm storage. The security there is a private company under the control of the Sheriff's Office. I rotate between OC & CC, though lately been OCing & I just mentioned that, technically, Washington State is an Open Carry state without requirement of CPL. They checked with the Captain & he verified what I was saying.

Snohomish Sheriffs are who deal with storing and retrieving firearms. Private company does the security, bag scanning and metal detecting.

 

[mnrobitaille]

There's been a minor change to who's handling the security checkpoint at Franklin County Courthouse, as it's now being operated by Franklin County Sheriff's Office.