Confusion over WY Open Carry restriction

[oshane]

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Uh, not quite...

If you read the entire thread carefully, you will find that not only was the city attorney VERY resistant to that (a preempted) interpretation of PB's laws, but also that the seeming sacrificial lamb (since when does a police dept have a low-level officer speak for it) felt the same way - the attorney only changing his tune when at the council meeting.

Even now, the best that can be gotten out of the police department is that "until further notice" one needn't worry?

"But in the meantime, you shouldn't be worried about the ones listed in this thread."

In the meantime, I and any right-thinking person SHOULD worry about preempted laws (or those that are unclear) remaining on the books.

Here's another example, though not from Wyoming, of where you'd better have the appropriate size checkbook if you're not worried about such things:

http://buckeyefirearms.org/node/6528

So the city attorney was wrong and publicly repudiated his previously held wrong views. Sounds like a step in the right direction.

The "until further notice" tripe statement on the phone by the police officer does concern me. Sounds like another way of subtly trying to get you to not open carry, but it is smoke and mirrors.

No, you shouldn't worry in the long run about preempted laws. They are dead letter.

 

[BB62]

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oshane wrote:

So the city attorney was wrong and publicly repudiated his previously held wrong views. Sounds like a step in the right direction.

The "until further notice" tripe statement on the phone by the police officer does concern me. Sounds like another way of subtly trying to get you to not open carry, but it is smoke and mirrors.

No, you shouldn't worry in the long run about preempted laws. They are dead letter.

(my emphasis above)

Thanks for the post.

Not to argue just to be arguing, but preemptedlaws on the books have ways of being used (see the link I previously provided), and arereally not dead letters- and as we both agree (I think), they need to beremoved.

 

[sparky79]

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I can't believe what a deal this turned out to be. Going from one Officers misguided comment to wanting to post billboard's telling travelers to ban Pine Bluffs. Unbelievable! As for this forum I can't believe some people went as far to try to spread rumors about special stop signs in front of former mayors houses and bashing the local first responders. How would you know I'm willing to bet your initials are D.S. I mean this forum was to discuss your gun rights not rumorville. com.

Now back onto the matter at hand. You know all it would have taken was for someone to go to a Town Council meeting and politely and rationally ask about and point out the outdated ordinance. But instead the town I live in and am proud to live in was bashed and raked through the coal's. Notice I said rationally and politely and from what I hear Mr. Bouchard was far from that. I spoke with a member of law enforcement who was at the last council meeting (not a PBPD officer by the way) and he was in agreement with Mayor Anderson in that Mr. Bouchard was way out of line. I agree with the town attorney all the ugliness and negativity made a simple thing of pointing out an outdated ordinance and asking it be changed made it into a complete mess. Give the town council the appropriate amount of time and a chance to make this right before passing judgement. If in a couple months this has not been resolved then go from there but give them a chance now. I bet when the council rectifies this issue that there will be no signs posted or letters mailed saying we where sorry for jumping to conclusions. I bet there will be no apologies from Mr. Bouchard for the way he acted at the last meeting. I hope I'm wrong and that these things do happen but I am betting not. Pine Bluffs is a fine town to live in. Please stop in and have a bite, check out our museum and archeology dig. Walk around and have picnic in the bluffs. Come to an open shoot at our very nice shooting range. You would be more then welcome packing or not I'm sure.

 

[sonnycrockett12]

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Sparky,
I agree with you...Pine Bluffs is a fine town and so are it's citizens....I've been through there many a time on my visits to Wyoming and always enjoyed myself. Heck, I can't name a town in Wyoming that wasn't filled with the friendliest people I ever met.

I think this whole situation could have probably been handled better on both sides and got out of hand. The police officers should have been more tactful and better trained to know that law better and perhaps members of the city govt could have been more responsive...BUT the town council should have been first given a chance to rectify the matter before we went in guns blazing. While I believe in holding any people in power's feet to the fire this isn't a New Jersey town full of anti-gun people who won't listen to us. 99.9% of the people in Wyoming are pro-gun. I think a visit by a concerned TOWN CITIZEN to the town council meeting to express concerns of the ordinance should have been a first step. If no response then perhaps a meeting with the mayor to point out the law and the desire to have it repealed. If that didn't work then I have no problem with "bringing out the big guns" and boycotting the town, billboards, etc. I think another problem with all of this is that it wasn't a coordinated effort with a single voice...when many people are expressing concerns in such a way it's easy for people to get mixed up in a "who said what" situation and perhaps act without all the information.

Anyway....let's let the council work on this and if it's not rectified in a reasonable amount of time then we can hit them hard. I highly doubt it will ever come to that. They will do the right thing being the fine people they all are. Let's let bygones be bygones and focus our efforts on the bigger fish that we need to fry. As gun owners are enemies aren't eachother....there's plenty of big ones sitting in Washington.

 

[oshane]

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sonnycrockett12 wrote:

I think this whole situation could have probably been handled better on both sides and got out of hand. The police officers should have been more tactful and better trained to know that law better and perhaps members of the city govt could have been more responsive...BUT the town council should have been first given a chance to rectify the matter before we went in guns blazing. While I believe in holding any people in power's feet to the fire this isn't a New Jersey town full of anti-gun people who won't listen to us. 99.9% of the people in Wyoming are pro-gun. I think a visit by a concerned TOWN CITIZEN to the town council meeting to express concerns of the ordinance should have been a first step. If no response then perhaps a meeting with the mayor to point out the law and the desire to have it repealed. If that didn't work then I have no problem with "bringing out the big guns" and boycotting the town, billboards, etc. I think another problem with all of this is that it wasn't a coordinated effort with a single voice...when many people are expressing concerns in such a way it's easy for people to get mixed up in a "who said what" situation and perhaps act without all the information.

Agreed!

 

[MatieA]

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oshane wrote:

sonnycrockett12 wrote:

I think this whole situation could have probably been handled better on both sides and got out of hand. The police officers should have been more tactful and better trained to know that law better and perhaps members of the city govt could have been more responsive...BUT the town council should have been first given a chance to rectify the matter before we went in guns blazing. While I believe in holding any people in power's feet to the fire this isn't a New Jersey town full of anti-gun people who won't listen to us. 99.9% of the people in Wyoming are pro-gun. I think a visit by a concerned TOWN CITIZEN to the town council meeting to express concerns of the ordinance should have been a first step. If no response then perhaps a meeting with the mayor to point out the law and the desire to have it repealed. If that didn't work then I have no problem with "bringing out the big guns" and boycotting the town, billboards, etc. I think another problem with all of this is that it wasn't a coordinated effort with a single voice...when many people are expressing concerns in such a way it's easy for people to get mixed up in a "who said what" situation and perhaps act without all the information.

Agreed!

Since I am the one that got this whole thing going, I have to admit that I should have done things differently, and have apologized to the mayor, and town council for the headaches caused. I am now trying tokeep things moving in a more peaceful, friendlymanner, and am doing my best to work with the council, and the town's attorney, and not make things worse than they presently are.

On a side note:

I have told Mr. Bouchard (WYGO pres.) that he needs to remove his negative publicity of the town, and he has not done so. He verbally accosted the mayor, and council members, and proved himself through his actions to be no friend of gun owners anywhere. I now consider anything he says about gun control to be highly suspect.

 

[Mjolnir]

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Sparky, is it not true that a former mayor lived in a yellow home (think it was yellow) on the North side of the street that the new Subway sandwich shop is on & a stop sign was placed there in front of the prior Mayors home?

Does the Pine Bluff Fire Department provide Emergency Medical Care and respond to medical emergencies automatacilly like the Fire Departments in Albin, Burns, Carpenter and Cheyenne do, or are they a stand alone good old boy fire department that refuses to assist members of there community when needed? Does the VFD fail to provide medical training to members of the department along with not automatically responding to medical emergencies in Pine Bluff and other areas the Pine Bluff ambulance responds to.

 

[BB62]

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For more than a week, I've been thinking about whether or not I should post my in-depth thoughts to the thread. I've decided to do so....

Those of you who are demonizing Anthony Bouchard, and praising the level-headed (HA!) mayor and council members are really missing the boat.

This whole matter was going precisely NOWHERE until Mr. Bouchardgot involved - yet no one seems to recognize that fact.

Go back and re-read the posts as I have, and you will find thefollowing:

1)The police shot Mr. Matie and others down onthe subject of legal OC in PB

2) Mr. Bouchard contacted the police, who confirmed what Mr. Matie had said

3) Mr. Bouchardattempted to contact the city attorney

4) Mr. Matie expressedappreciation for Mr. Bouchard's intervention

5) Mr. Bouchard was told by the city attorney that the police were right

6) Mr. Bouchard took various steps to publicize what had happened & the status of things

7) John Wise felt no need or compunction to act

8) An article reaffirming what the police had told callers appeared in the newspaper

9) The town meeting was held, and even after the town attorney (CHANGING his tune from what he had earliertold Mr. Bouchard) told the council members that their law was invalid, some still questioned the need and timing of a change.

10) The PB mayor appearson the thread, slamming Mr. Bouchard

11) Mr. Matie takes issue withMr.Bouchard,various new posters appear, some people complainabout "agitators" or report that various town officials have done so.



This villification of Mr. Bouchard is overdone, IMHO. To me, the thrust of your questions ought to be this: "When and WHAT caused the city attorney to change his tune so dramatically between when Mr. Bouchard first talked to him and the time of the March 2 council meeting?" HMMMMMM.... Let me think.... Could it be- ANTHONY BOUCHARD?

Yoursecond question ought to be - "Why has the mayor felt it necessary to slam Mr. Bouchard on this thread, and why were some council members STILL resistant to changing the town code even AFTER the city attorney told them the laws were unenforceable?

Come on folks!

From what is publically available, one might see Mr. Bouchard as being over the top, but as one who has been involved in these kinds of matters before, I think you need to honestly answer the two questions posed above before painting horns on Mr. Bouchard.

Let's just see how the council acts on Monday, if they still want to puff out their collective chests, or play the bogey-man "agitator" game, if they are still "studying" things - OR if they are going to do what the city attorney could have advised all parties to do FIRST THING - recognize that the position of the police (AND of himself) was unsupportable - BEFORE things got to where they are.


>edited to add "council" to a sentence

 

[MatieA]

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BB62 wrote:

For more than a week, I've been thinking about whether or not I should post my in-depth thoughts to the thread. I've decided to do so....

Those of you who are demonizing Anthony Bouchard, and praising the level-headed (HA!) mayor and council members are really missing the boat.

This whole matter was going precisely NOWHERE until Mr. Bouchardgot involved - yet no one seems to recognize that fact.

Go back and re-read the posts as I have, and you will find thefollowing:

1)The police shot Mr. Matie and others down onthe subject of legal OC in PB

2) Mr. Bouchard contacted the police, who confirmed what Mr. Matie had said

3) Mr. Bouchardattempted to contact the city attorney

4) Mr. Matie expressedappreciation for Mr. Bouchard's intervention

5) Mr. Bouchard was told by the city attorney that the police were right

6) Mr. Bouchard took various steps to publicize what had happened & the status of things

7) John Wise felt no need or compunction to act

8) An article reaffirming what the police had told callers appeared in the newspaper

9) The town meeting was held, and even after the town attorney (CHANGING his tune from what he had earliertold Mr. Bouchard) told the council members that their law was invalid, some still questioned the need and timing of a change.

10) The PB mayor appearson the thread, slamming Mr. Bouchard

11) Mr. Matie takes issue withMr.Bouchard,various new posters appear, some people complainabout "agitators" or report that various town officials have done so.



This villification of Mr. Bouchard is overdone, IMHO. To me, the thrust of your questions ought to be this: "When and WHAT caused the city attorney to change his tune so dramatically between when Mr. Bouchard first talked to him and the time of the March 2 council meeting?" HMMMMMM.... Let me think.... Could it be- ANTHONY BOUCHARD?

Yoursecond question ought to be - "Why has the mayor felt it necessary to slam Mr. Bouchard on this thread, and why were some council members STILL resistant to changing the town code even AFTER the city attorney told them the laws were unenforceable?

Come on folks!

From what is publically available, one might see Mr. Bouchard as being over the top, but as one who has been involved in these kinds of matters before, I think you need to honestly answer the two questions posed above before painting horns on Mr. Bouchard.

Let's just see how the council acts on Monday, if they still want to puff out their collective chests, or play the bogey-man "agitator" game, if they are still "studying" things - OR if they are going to do what the city attorney could have advised all parties to do FIRST THING - recognize that the position of the police (AND of himself) was unsupportable - BEFORE things got to where they are.


>edited to add "council" to a sentence

Ok, I am not refuting any facts as stated, I am saying that I could/should have done things differently, and maybe things would not have had to go so far as publicly demonizing Pine Bluffs as an ANTI-GUN town. Mr Bouchard (unfortunately) did not act in a professional manner, and is not giving the town time to properly change the ordinances. IMHO his website should have shown the facts from the meeting (it does not), and his http://www.pinebluffswy.org site should have been changed, or suspended until such time as it may be proven that the town does nothing(if this happens). I honestly believe that the town is working on it, and we will see this in future meetings; there is a "due process" for changing ordinances and as I have stated before I would not want to live somewhere that could rewrite an ordinance, and put it in effect the same day. Mr Bouchard is demanding that the town change the ordinances "RIGHT NOW", and refuses to change his websites to show that the town is changing things to meet Wy state law. I am not demonizing Mr. Bouchard; he could do a lot of good, but you have to be professional, and recognize that things cannot and should not be done overnight. The town council asked Mr. Bouchard to remove his negative publicity on the town, and he refused. I honestly believe that it should have come down, with statements made about the town meeting, and put back up IF the town decided to do nothing. Mr. Bouchard hasn't even acknowledged the fact that the town has said that they were going to change these ordinances on either of his sites.

I myself believe as I stated at the beginning of this post that I should have done things differently at the beginning, and then we would (probably) not be in the position that we are in now, with negative publicity slamming the town on the internet. I WILL NOT in the future ask for help from rights groups UNTIL I have exhausted every other option that I have available to me. I asked for advice ,and thoughtthat I was getting help, and all I got was my town being blasted as ANTI-GUN (STILL). I amopen-carrying my sidearm every day, to prove that this town is not what the sites say it is. I only wish more people would do the same. The more that we are seen the less negative effect the sites will have on the town.


>>>edited for various spelling errors ( I think I found them all)

 

[MamaLiberty]

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Any new word on this from the town? Has the "rule" been repealed yet?

 

[SDguy]

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A number of us are waiting patiently to hear. We were asked to give the town time and we have done just that.

My concern is that they just wanted us to take the pressure off of them, a request they put forth in private communications several times. We were asked to back off and give them time to accomplish the withdrawal of the unconstitutional local anti-gun law.

So, what is up?

 

[MatieA]

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MamaLiberty wrote:

Any new word on this from the town? Has the "rule" been repealed yet?

I missed Monday's meeting, but I will be going to see the Mayor on Friday, and will update afterwards.

 

[AB]

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With great disappointment there was no mention of the issue at the last meeting.

Our hope had been that they would pursue fixing the matter with the same energy and commitment that they displayed while defending their ban on open carry.

Folks are tired of this "politics as usual", especially when it comes to gun-rights. The elected officials of Pine Bluffs fail to realize that the more they puff up their egos, place blame elsewhere, and do nothing, the public views this as more of the same.

Monitoring Senator John Barrasso on the national level, he consistently comes back to the Second Amendment. This is no accident - Sen. Barrasso knows that this issue is on the front burner of his constituents.

Senator Barrasso's message is "Leave our land alone, leave our water alone and leave our guns alone!"

On February 20th of this year Senator Barrasso was in Pine Bluffs and reaffirmed his stance on our Second Amendment rights and stated he was "very concerned with the future of a citizen's right to keep and bear arms"

This is not an endorsement, just looking at the sharp contrast in these leadership styles, as many of Pine Bluffs citizens already have.

This reality is evidenced from the many emails WyGO has received from Pine Bluffs citizens, for example "Pine Bluffs doesn't need finger pointing; we need people that will get things done" and from another "If we want to see politics like this we can watch the news".

It can't be said any better than what yet another resident said: "Real leaders accept responsibility for their own mistakes and always do the right thing".


WyGO / Wyoming Gun Owners Association

http://wyominggunowners.org/

 

[BB62]

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MatieA wrote:

MamaLiberty wrote:

Any new word on this from the town? Has the "rule" been repealed yet?

I missed Monday's meeting, but I will be going to see the Mayor on Friday, and will update afterwards.

I wanted to check for myself what (if anything) happened at Monday's meeting, AND simultaneously verifyAB'sreportedcouncil inactionat the meeting, so I made my first call to PB this afternoon.

Icalled the number posted previouslyfor the Town Clerk (307-245-3746), but Kate, (who said "Kate,PB PD") answered and was told #1, that there was no discussion of modifying thelaw regarding OC at the most recent meeting, and #2 - that there wasn't a meeting on Monday, March 23 - it was held on March 16!

It seems AB was accurate. Sorry for doubting you!

Evidently the Pine Bluffs newspaper got the date wrong in the March 5th edition, in the article entitled "Open carry ordinance hot topic during council meeting..." - in which the newspaper said the next meeting would be 7PM, Monday, March 23.

Katesaid that meetings were held the first and third Monday of each month - the next one being April 6th. I forgot to ask what time the next meeting was, so I called back, and she told me that it was at 7:30 PM (not 7:00), and she asked me if I needed to get on the agenda!

So... by the time of the next meeting, thecity attorney will have had a month to do his research, and to present revised laws that comply with Wyoming's preemption statute. If he doesn't do his part, then council ought to do their part and demandthe revisions!

I guess we'll have to wait a bit more to seeif the appropriate parties do their respective jobs. I have my doubts...

 

[SDguy]

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BB62, I appreciate the follow up and update. We need to keep the pressure on and not let them just ignore the issue and hope we go away.

 

[MamaLiberty]

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BB62 wrote:

I called back, and she told me that it was at 7:30 PM (not 7:00), and she asked me if I needed to get on the agenda!

Did you get on the agenda? That would seem to be a perfect "in" to take care of this. Just saying...

 

[BB62]

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MatieA wrote:

MamaLiberty wrote:

Any new word on this from the town? Has the "rule" been repealed yet?

I missed Monday's meeting, but I will be going to see the Mayor on Friday, and will update afterwards.

What did the mayor have to say about why nothing was done on March 16?

Did he indicate they will be ready to take action at the next meeting?

 

[BB62]

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MamaLiberty wrote:

BB62 wrote:

I called back, and she told me that it was at 7:30 PM (not 7:00), and she asked me if I needed to get on the agenda!

Did you get on the agenda? That would seem to be a perfect "in" to take care of this. Just saying...

Well, I would have, but since I am four states away, it would be tough!

At the rate they're going, though, maybe they'll still be dawdling around when we vacation in WY in June! :X

 

[Mjolnir]

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Strange how we get a couple new members here, they attack AB personally and then go away and do not come back with any kind of productive update about the issue at hand.

is this just standard small town politics doing what they do best (protecting the old boy network) of friends and family or are they actually doing what they say.

sure appears that they are not exactly chomping at the bit to make things right, but are attacking the person who has stood up to them.

 

[MatieA]

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Mjolnir wrote:

Strange how we get a couple new members here, they attack AB personally and then go away and do not come back with any kind of productive update about the issue at hand.

is this just standard small town politics doing what they do best (protecting the old boy network) of friends and family or are they actually doing what they say.

sure appears that they are not exactly chomping at the bit to make things right, but are attacking the person who has stood up to them.

Excuse me

I am still here and have not updated any more as I have nothing more to update yet. I missed the Mayor on Friday, but am meeting with him on Monday morning. I have not given up on anything, nor am I going to let it drop, but I also believe that we are not going to get anywhere by verbally assaulting the town council and Mayor of the town. I also do not agree with AB's tactics on this, as he is not showing any willingness to cooperate but seems to be wanting a fight. Why fight if there is no reason to? As I have stated before lets save the "rough stuff" for IF the council does not act.