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Checkpoints

Sonora Rebel

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I've never gone thru a checkpoint unarmed... here, NM or TX. 'Only thing I been asked (if at all) is: 'Are you n American citizen?' Yes! 'Get waved on... have a nice day. Once i had the AK clone stuffed between the seat and the center console (in AZ).: 'Nice gun!' Don't do that in Texas.

You go lookin' for a confrontation, you'll find it. The dork with the video camera playing provacateur needs a boot in his hissy-fit ass. 'Like that Trickster? But... you're a 'resident of Arizona' huh? So why the query as to traversing the checkpoints while armed? Anyone whose lived here any time at all has done so. People do it everyday... In fact, like most LEO's they assume everyone in AZ is armed. Where do you think these BP people live? Cleveland?
 

EMNofSeattle

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S. Kitsap, Washington state
I've never gone thru a checkpoint unarmed... here, NM or TX. 'Only thing I been asked (if at all) is: 'Are you n American citizen?' Yes! 'Get waved on... have a nice day. Once i had the AK clone stuffed between the seat and the center console (in AZ).: 'Nice gun!' Don't do that in Texas.

You go lookin' for a confrontation, you'll find it. The dork with the video camera playing provacateur needs a boot in his hissy-fit ass. 'Like that Trickster? But... you're a 'resident of Arizona' huh? So why the query as to traversing the checkpoints while armed? Anyone whose lived here any time at all has done so. People do it everyday... In fact, like most LEO's they assume everyone in AZ is armed. Where do you think these BP people live? Cleveland?

You mean you're a provacatuer for asserting your rights that many generations have died for? I think not. You have a right to travel within your country unharassed. I don't need to show my papers to the US Border Patrol, I am a citizen, and as a citizen I have rights. even if I answer "no" to the question how is that probable cause? not being a citizen does not mean you're in the country illegally. Last I checked permanent residents are not excluded the same rights as citizens under the constitution except to vote or hold public office.

And think about this, if all someone has to do is say "yes" and they have no power to verify that, how effective is this really as a form of securing the border? Or they're choosing to search hispanics more often which means they're violating the civil rights act.


Tell you what, why are going out with a gun in public? why do you have your AK in the car? tell me Sonora, why are you seeking a confrontation?
 
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GWbiker

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Mar 21, 2008
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958
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USA
Running thru a checkpoint (DUI or BP) doesn't work out too well down here.

A DPS car usually is posted just past the roadblock ready to pull over an offender.

BTW, DUI checkpoints have been around for some 40 years, as I recall seeing them in Atlantic County New Jersey in 1971.
I'm sure courts have ruled them to be legal. Thank the people in MADD for that.
 

EMNofSeattle

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S. Kitsap, Washington state
Running thru a checkpoint (DUI or BP) doesn't work out too well down here.

A DPS car usually is posted just past the roadblock ready to pull over an offender.

BTW, DUI checkpoints have been around for some 40 years, as I recall seeing them in Atlantic County New Jersey in 1971.
I'm sure courts have ruled them to be legal. Thank the people in MADD for that.

If you watch the videos, no one runs the checkpoints, they just keep asking if they're being detained until waived through, except in Citizen's video where the motorist goes all evangelical on the agent...

DUI checkpoints were validated in Michigan v. Sitz which ruled that DUI checkpoints were constitutional under the 4th amendment. the stop is considered a "seizure" however and to keep someone detained past the time it takes to ask brief queries the officers need probable cause to prolong or search

(The Michigan Supreme Court later determined that DUI checkpoints violated Michigan's constitution)

The immigration checks in question here stem from U.S. v Martinez-Fuerte which validated stops at PERMANENT checkpoints, the scope of the checkpoint is limited to immigration queries and probable cause or consent is needed for a search or prolonged detention. They have no authority to hold you at the checkpoint if there is no probable cause you are an illegal alien.

They tried to put up checkpoints on the Olympic Penninsula in Washington state, and it's funny because after the checkpoint was up for a few weeks they kept calling the Jefferson County sheriff to write citations for blocking the road if people were asserting their rights, or asking if they would assist the BP, and after only a few weeks the Sheriff announced his deputies weren't doing the dirty work for the border patrol anymore that same day the city council of nearby Port Townsend drafted a resolution ordering their city police officers not to assist the border patrol in any way unless it was immediately nessecary to protect human life. shortly thereafter the checkpoints stopped.

Really the border patrol is just a nuissance up there. A friend of mine has a friend (yes I've met both, I know this story to be true) who owns a private airfield on the olympic peninsula, and the border patrol kept driving up his driveway and would park their cars on the airfield and walk around his hangers and check out the junker cars laying on the side of the field, also what's wierd, the border patrol agents on the olympic are monitoring the county sheriff and state patrol dispatch and keep showing up at calls that are traditionally the purview of local law enforcement or state highway patrol. I'm serious, this picture here was who all showed up to a minor accident with no injuries reported, the two guys in black are Sequiem Police Officers, all the people in green are US CBP
BPassistSequim.jpg


and the few towns on the peninsula are all either solidly liberal or pseudo libertarian, it's safe to say few people really want them there.
 
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The Trickster

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Sep 21, 2012
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Location
Arizona
But... you're a 'resident of Arizona' huh? So why the query as to traversing the checkpoints while armed? Anyone whose lived here any time at all has done so. People do it everyday... In fact, like most LEO's they assume everyone in AZ is armed. Where do you think these BP people live? Cleveland?

Please reread my post and notice that I asked more specifically about a K-9 alert. I am not sure if K-9 units are able to detect the presence of a firearm. If they can, then I also do not know if it could trigger an ambiguous alert, which the BP could use it as an excuse to search. Example (BP Agent): "The dog hit when we walked past your vehicle. Even though you are quite obviously armed, sir, we need to search your vehicle anyway because the dog may have hit on any number of things such as drugs or explosives for example. It probably was just your lawfully carried pistol, but we need to check anyway."

And yes, despite your skepticism, I am indeed a resident of Arizona. I don't travel down into the Department of Homeland Insecurity's wonderful 100 mile-wide Constitution-free zone very often, so please pardon my ignorance concerning the subject.
 

Yard Sale

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Feb 13, 2010
Messages
715
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Northern Nevada, ,
I would be more worried about officers contriving bloodshot, watery eyes and the smell of alcohol than about a dog making a false alert. If they are using a drug sniffing dog, it's an unreasonable seizure as per Indianapolis v. Edmond, 531 U.S. 32 (2000).

Yes, I'm the guy the judge said the cops had probable cause to arrest for DUI despite my .000% blood alcohol lab test.
 

FreeInAZ

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Oct 15, 2012
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Secret Bunker
I would be more worried about officers contriving bloodshot, watery eyes and the smell of alcohol than about a dog making a false alert. If they are using a drug sniffing dog, it's an unreasonable seizure as per Indianapolis v. Edmond, 531 U.S. 32 (2000).

Yes, I'm the guy the judge said the cops had probable cause to arrest for DUI despite my .000% blood alcohol lab test.

Care to elaborate good Sir? We can learn from your experiences.
 

Sonora Rebel

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Please reread my post and notice that I asked more specifically about a K-9 alert. I am not sure if K-9 units are able to detect the presence of a firearm. If they can, then I also do not know if it could trigger an ambiguous alert, which the BP could use it as an excuse to search. Example (BP Agent): "The dog hit when we walked past your vehicle. Even though you are quite obviously armed, sir, we need to search your vehicle anyway because the dog may have hit on any number of things such as drugs or explosives for example. It probably was just your lawfully carried pistol, but we need to check anyway."

And yes, despite your skepticism, I am indeed a resident of Arizona. I don't travel down into the Department of Homeland Insecurity's wonderful 100 mile-wide Constitution-free zone very often, so please pardon my ignorance concerning the subject.

What if they do? It's not illegal. Comprende? Do you know the difference in the outgassing properties of smokeless powder to H-6 based type explosives? The dogs do. I've had the dogs walk my truck while I was armed. You don't venture near the border so WTF are you paranoid about? You sound like those who don't carry projecting stuff that don't happen. You'd rather the border be wide open worse than it is? Move back to wherever you came from.
 
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EMNofSeattle

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What if they do? It's not illegal. Comprende? Do you know the difference in the outgassing properties of smokeless powder to H-6 based type explosives? The dogs do. You don't venture near the border so WTF are you paranoid about? You sound like those who don't carry projecting stuff that don't happen. You'd rather the border be wide open worse than it is? Move back to wherever you came from.


You think these checkpoints are really doing anything to keep you safe when all you have to do is preach the gospel to get through them without answering questions?

So you'd sell out your rights and support ridiculous security theatre just to keep some brown skinned people (who have freely crossed for over 150 to do agricultural work and it wasn't a problem until the 1970s when someone invented this narrative of "they took our jobs" ) out? What a real defender of America we have here......

Yes checkpoints with drug dogs are apparently illegal under current precedent, US v Martinez-Fuerte limits these checkpoints to a small immigration scope. And drug dogs at checkpoints absent probable cause are forbidden (city of Indianapolis v Edmond)
 

The Trickster

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216
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Arizona
What if they do? It's not illegal. Comprende? Do you know the difference in the outgassing properties of smokeless powder to H-6 based type explosives? The dogs do. I've had the dogs walk my truck while I was armed. You don't venture near the border so WTF are you paranoid about? You sound like those who don't carry projecting stuff that don't happen. You'd rather the border be wide open worse than it is? Move back to wherever you came from.

These roadblocks are a disgrace to liberty as they blatantly violate the Fourth Amendment by requiring everyone to be detained and questioned absent RAS and probable cause. There is no reason why with a combination of today's technology and the manpower that the BP and the DHS possess that every last inch of the actual border could not monitored 24/7, which would reduce the flow of illegal immigration by 99.99%.

Despite the fact that you are trying to pick a fight based on speculation and conjecture, I will somewhat enterain your presumptions...

First, stop dealing in absolutes. Just because I do not support BP roadblocks on inland soil does not mean that I'd, "rather the border be open worse that is is." This is a common misconception by statists. I completely support a secure border but not at the expense of my liberty inland. Indeed, it never ends well when people surrender liberty for imaginary security.

Second, I carry 99.99% of the time. I don't care who likes it or dislikes it, so long as I'm legal, I'll carry. The few times that I've been through the BP roadblocks, I did so while armed, but never encountered a dog. Why does my quest for knowledge and pursuit to destory ignorance bother you so much?

And finally, your "love it or leave it" attitude is absurd. Such an approach in life is why nothing ever gets done and the few things that do take forever to reach fruition. What makes your opinion so much more significant than mine? "Move back to whereever you came from." Really? That is childish at best, and frankly, I could think of much more befitting words to use in place of "childish."

Grow up.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,276
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
These roadblocks are a disgrace to liberty as they blatantly violate the Fourth Amendment by requiring everyone to be detained and questioned absent RAS and probable cause. There is no reason why with a combination of today's technology and the manpower that the BP and the DHS possess that every last inch of the actual border could not monitored 24/7, which would reduce the flow of illegal immigration by 99.99%.

Despite the fact that you are trying to pick a fight based on speculation and conjecture, I will somewhat enterain your presumptions...

First, stop dealing in absolutes. Just because I do not support BP roadblocks on inland soil does not mean that I'd, "rather the border be open worse that is is." This is a common misconception by statists. I completely support a secure border but not at the expense of my liberty inland. Indeed, it never ends well when people surrender liberty for imaginary security.

Second, I carry 99.99% of the time. I don't care who likes it or dislikes it, so long as I'm legal, I'll carry. The few times that I've been through the BP roadblocks, I did so while armed, but never encountered a dog. Why does my quest for knowledge and pursuit to destory ignorance bother you so much?

And finally, your "love it or leave it" attitude is absurd. Such an approach in life is why nothing ever gets done and the few things that do take forever to reach fruition. What makes your opinion so much more significant than mine? "Move back to whereever you came from." Really? That is childish at best, and frankly, I could think of much more befitting words to use in place of "childish."

Grow up.

Don't take Sonora Rebel too personally. He's just grumpy. I give him some deference because he was an OCer long before OCDO came along. He's an original unicorn.

Plus, he has a cool truck and a great view from his yard. :)
 
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The Trickster

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
216
Location
Arizona
Don't take Sonora Rebel too personally. He's just grumpy. I give him some deference because he was an OCer long before OCDO came along. He's an original unicorn.

Plus, he has a cool truck and a great view from his yard. :)

Believe me when I say that I never take the words of a random stranger (espcially on the Internet) personally. :lol:
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,358
Location
northern wis
I ve been through the border patrol check points out side Yuma several time always have had many guns and lots of ammo and there always seems to have been a dog there.

Never been ask for ID just told them the wife and I are US citizens and they have always said have have a nice day.

Maybe its the Wis plate two middle aged white volks and a dodge mini van.

Don't really like would rather not do it. But AZ has a very strong right to bear arms.

Don't think the border patrol dogs there are trained for firearms. Other wise they be hitting on very vehicle.

My buddys van was hit on but when they found out he had a dog of his own inside they told him have a nice day and go on your way.
 

Sonora Rebel

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Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
3,957
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Gone
These roadblocks are a disgrace to liberty as they blatantly violate the Fourth Amendment by requiring everyone to be detained and questioned absent RAS and probable cause. There is no reason why with a combination of today's technology and the manpower that the BP and the DHS possess that every last inch of the actual border could not monitored 24/7, which would reduce the flow of illegal immigration by 99.99%.

Despite the fact that you are trying to pick a fight based on speculation and conjecture, I will somewhat enterain your presumptions...

First, stop dealing in absolutes. Just because I do not support BP roadblocks on inland soil does not mean that I'd, "rather the border be open worse that is is." This is a common misconception by statists. I completely support a secure border but not at the expense of my liberty inland. Indeed, it never ends well when people surrender liberty for imaginary security.

Second, I carry 99.99% of the time. I don't care who likes it or dislikes it, so long as I'm legal, I'll carry. The few times that I've been through the BP roadblocks, I did so while armed, but never encountered a dog. Why does my quest for knowledge and pursuit to destory ignorance bother you so much?

And finally, your "love it or leave it" attitude is absurd. Such an approach in life is why nothing ever gets done and the few things that do take forever to reach fruition. What makes your opinion so much more significant than mine? "Move back to whereever you came from." Really? That is childish at best, and frankly, I could think of much more befitting words to use in place of "childish."

Grow up.

Dude... you're the whiner with the Jones against authority. Anarchy goes nowhere. I care less wtf you support or don't. You don't like it... don't live here. Simple solution. I live within sight of Mexico... you don't. 'Different dynamic. We appreciate the BP... and the Deputies... and the Park Rangers... and the Tribal Police. I could give a **** what you like. I have illegals coming up thru the rez less than 1/8th mile away doin' who knows what? You actually remind me of some pot smokin' meth head doper who hates all cops. What? 'They take your toys away?
 

The Trickster

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
216
Location
Arizona
Dude... you're the whiner with the Jones against authority. Anarchy goes nowhere. I care less wtf you support or don't. You don't like it... don't live here. Simple solution. I live within sight of Mexico... you don't. 'Different dynamic. We appreciate the BP... and the Deputies... and the Park Rangers... and the Tribal Police. I could give a **** what you like. I have illegals coming up thru the rez less than 1/8th mile away doin' who knows what? You actually remind me of some pot smokin' meth head doper who hates all cops. What? 'They take your toys away?

Can you please explain to me how you are able to incorrectly infer that I hate law enforcement, support anarchy, and use illegal drugs simply by being privy to only one opinion of mine, which is the fact that I do not support unconstitutional roadblocks?

Could you also explain to me why you are continuing to participate in this thread by specifically addressing me concerning my beliefs, when you claim that you actually don't care what I like and/or support?

Feel free to take your own advice and leave this thread if you don't like it. Or does that "love it or leave it" thing only apply to everyone else, as is usually the case? Of course, most people who deal in absolutes always exempt themselves...
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,494
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
In all the years that I have lived in Arizona, I have never been through a DUI checkpoint, although I have been through many Border Patrol checkpoints. Despite the fact that I feel they are a suspicionless intrusion into our lives which lack any probable cause to be constitutional, they are a reality. While this is a borderline topic to be posted in the Arizona section on OC.org, I have done so because I live in Arizona and would like to specifically address this as it pertains to AZ state law, plus I am almost always armed and would be as I encounter these situations. So, a couple of questions if I may...

*Note: I do not drink and drive nor am I in the United States illegally, so neither can ever be legitimately used as RAS by LE to warrant any of the following:

1. Am I required to produce identification (driver license, proof of insurance, vehicle registration) if I am told to do so upon being stopped at a checkpoint? What about passengers?

2. Can a K-9 detect the presence of a firearm (pistol) being carried by me which could then give LE the excuse of RAS to further detain and search me and my vehicle?

3. Does anyone have any experience invoking their right to remain silent at these checkpoints and if so, did it lead to any further detention/investigation by LE?

Thanks in advance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDLlEh0x2XA&playnext=1&list=PL7BC956C2E15751BE&feature=results_main

At the border you lose rights. Away from the boarder you have all your rights and you do not have to talk or show ID. Watch a few of the videos above. Keep asking if you are being detained and if you are free to go. Most BP agents now know that you do not have to respond to them at the inland roadblocks.
 
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