Checkpoints

[The Trickster]

In all the years that I have lived in Arizona, I have never been through a DUI checkpoint, although I have been through many Border Patrol checkpoints. Despite the fact that I feel they are a suspicionless intrusion into our lives which lack any probable cause to be constitutional, they are a reality. While this is a borderline topic to be posted in the Arizona section on OC.org, I have done so because I live in Arizona and would like to specifically address this as it pertains to AZ state law, plus I am almost always armed and would be as I encounter these situations. So, a couple of questions if I may...

*Note: I do not drink and drive nor am I in the United States illegally, so neither can ever be legitimately used as RAS by LE to warrant any of the following:

1. Am I required to produce identification (driver license, proof of insurance, vehicle registration) if I am told to do so upon being stopped at a checkpoint? What about passengers?

2. Can a K-9 detect the presence of a firearm (pistol) being carried by me which could then give LE the excuse of RAS to further detain and search me and my vehicle?

3. Does anyone have any experience invoking their right to remain silent at these checkpoints and if so, did it lead to any further detention/investigation by LE?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Citizen]

Just my usual comment about terminology.

We play into the government's hands when we use the government's terminology and call these things checkpoints.

They're not checkpoints. They're roadblocks. Try running one sometime and see what happens.

The word checkpoint is a government term coined to make these things seem innocuous and non-invasive.

These things were always roadblocks and always will be roadblocks.

If we call them what they are, we won't be playing into the government's hands.

 

[Citizen]

In all the years that I have lived in Arizona, I have never been through a DUI checkpoint, although I have been through many Border Patrol checkpoints. Despite the fact that I feel they are a suspicionless intrusion into our lives which lack any probable cause to be constitutional, they are a reality. While this is a borderline topic to be posted in the Arizona section on OC.org, I have done so because I live in Arizona and would like to specifically address this as it pertains to AZ state law, plus I am almost always armed and would be as I encounter these situations. So, a couple of questions if I may...

*Note: I do not drink and drive nor am I in the United States illegally, so neither can ever be legitimately used as RAS by LE to warrant any of the following:

1. Am I required to produce identification (driver license, proof of insurance, vehicle registration) if I am told to do so upon being stopped at a checkpoint? What about passengers?

2. Can a K-9 detect the presence of a firearm (pistol) being carried by me which could then give LE the excuse of RAS to further detain and search me and my vehicle?

3. Does anyone have any experience invoking their right to remain silent at these checkpoints and if so, did it lead to any further detention/investigation by LE?

Thanks in advance.

Wow! You asked a mouthful. I'm sure you didn't realize it, though. You just opened a box that will take quite a bit of cites to answer. If the answers are few, this will be the reason.

You see, roadblocks come in different forms for different reasons, as you pointed out. And, you've implicated dogs which have their own case law. And, you get over into the whole officer safety thing with the gun which has its own case law.

And, you implicated identity, which has its own case law, as distinguished from licensing.

You might be here a while.


PS: You might check a blog by a guy who monitors federal roadblocks. If I recall, he has some controlling federal law mentioned on his blog; CheckpointUSA is the name I think. Also, you might check the FAQs section at FlexYourRights.org. I seem to recall that they had some information on roadblocks.

 

[Phoenix David]

My understanding

#1 if your driving you could be required to produce a drivers license, registration, insurance. Passangers are not driving and Arizona does not require that you carry ID

#2 K-9 could if trained detect weapons I suppose, in Arizona having a firearms in and of itself is not RAS, unless in a prohibited place.

#3 Dunno.

 

[davidmcbeth]

3. Does anyone have any experience invoking their right to remain silent at these checkpoints and if so, did it lead to any further detention/investigation by LE?

Thanks in advance.

Cars have locks, use them. Lock up before you stop ... if you leave your car, lock it as you get out.

I never have been through a DUI chkpt ... but I don't like them, the courts are wrong on their constitutionality, and I would not be very pleasant to the cops if I said anything at all.

I don't see why you would need to have any verbal communication at all....you hand them your paperwork and ignore their queries. Or just answer once "I'll answer any question you have in court!".

 

[Ca Patriot]

3. Does anyone have any experience invoking their right to remain silent at these checkpoints and if so, did it lead to any further detention/investigation by LE?

Thanks in advance.

9 times out of 10 its going to result in prolonged detention at best and assault and arrest at worst.

If you plan to assert your rights make sure to do your research on the laws, practice your routine, have a 2 or more video cameras and set aside some bail money for your wife to hold.

 

[The Trickster]

Thank you for the responses.

Does anyone know for certain that a person is required to show identification at one of these che..., ahem, roadblocks? Since there is no probable cause, RAS, etc. to justify the detention in the first place, how could a driver be obligated to show their license? A cop couldn't just stop you while you're driving a vehicle to perform a driver license check, so how can they do it here?

Again, your insight and thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

[The Trickster]

9 times out of 10 its going to result in prolonged detention at best and assault and arrest at worst.

If you plan to assert your rights make sure to do your research on the laws, practice your routine, have a 2 or more video cameras and set aside some bail money for your wife to hold.

Excellent points and I concur with you 100%.

 

[GWbiker]

Here we go again. Several weeks go by, then this border checkpoint bullschitt crops up.


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[The Trickster]

Here we go again. Several weeks go by, then this border checkpoint bullschitt crops up.


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Feel free to ignore the thread if you'd like.

 

[FreeInAZ]

Here we go again. Several weeks go by, then this border checkpoint bullschitt crops up.


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Your Big Black Hat too tight? bullschitt? Maybe you can expand on this and state why you "feel" the subject is bullschitt? To be blocked by police while going about one's way LEGALLY seems unconstitutional to me. Just like being stopped for exercising your 2A rights.

I know you will not respond with anything other than venom per your norm, but hope springs eternal Sir.

 

[Citizen]

Here we go again. Several weeks go by, then this border checkpoint bullschitt crops up.


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I don't see anybody griping about a border [STRIKE]checkpoint[/STRIKE] roadblock. They're griping about roadblocks well removed from the border on the specious legal theory that something like up to one hundred miles in from the border counts as fair game for suspicionless searches by the Border Patrol. ( Yeah, sure. Sell me a bridge and some beachfront property in Utah.)

 

[GWbiker]

This thread is an ongoing whine for past five years.

Lot's of bitching from outsiders but no one willing to fix border security issue in Arizona.


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[Citizen]

Thank you for the responses.

Does anyone know for certain that a person is required to show identification at one of these che..., ahem, roadblocks? Since there is no probable cause, RAS, etc. to justify the detention in the first place, how could a driver be obligated to show their license? A cop couldn't just stop you while you're driving a vehicle to perform a driver license check, so how can they do it here?

Again, your insight and thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Since you're not getting an solid answers here yet, you could also check websites for your local/state ACLU, AAA, and so forth--anybody who might have an interest in driving and rights.

Heh, heh, heh. Then you can come back and stand tall by revealing what you learned. Instant forum brownie points, guaranteed. No cigars or cookies, though. We're not that generous.

 

[FreeInAZ]

This thread is an ongoing whine for past five years.

Lot's of bitching from outsiders but no one willing to fix border security issue in Arizona.


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Define outsider? I am 30 min from you and I would be happy to work with any group that would care to take on this issue. Maybe some of us from AzCDL can form a offshoot to address this issue? I know you would join, right?

 

[Citizen]

This thread is an ongoing whine for past five years.

Lot's of bitching from outsiders but no one willing to fix border security issue in Arizona.


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You should re-read the thread. You're the one yapping about border roadblocks, with only one exception--a reference by me in my first post to a source of federal law--everybody is talking about police roadblocks. DUI and drivers license checks are expressly referenced. You might care to re-read the OP, too.



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[EMNofSeattle]

Thank you for the responses.

Does anyone know for certain that a person is required to show identification at one of these che..., ahem, roadblocks? Since there is no probable cause, RAS, etc. to justify the detention in the first place, how could a driver be obligated to show their license? A cop couldn't just stop you while you're driving a vehicle to perform a driver license check, so how can they do it here?

Again, your insight and thoughts are greatly appreciated.

This should explain everything perfectly for ya.

Check out his channel, he has many videos of him doing this at the BP checks

[video=youtube;u6uw7506xMw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6uw7506xMw[/video]

 

[The Trickster]

This thread is an ongoing whine for past five years.

Lot's of bitching from outsiders but no one willing to fix border security issue in Arizona.


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I'm not an "outsider." I am an Arizona resident and a citizen of the United States of America. Furthermore, I am not whining about anything; rather, I am trying to rid myself of any and all ignorance I have pertaining to the topic of roadblocks. Since I do carry and may very well encounter a roadblock situation while doing so, I am attempting to garner as much information and knowledge as possible. Indeed, knowledge protects while ignorance endangers. Also, I searched for the answers to my questions prior to starting this thread, but to no avail.

 

[The Trickster]

Since you're not getting an solid answers here yet, you could also check websites for your local/state ACLU, AAA, and so forth--anybody who might have an interest in driving and rights.

Heh, heh, heh. Then you can come back and stand tall by revealing what you learned. Instant forum brownie points, guaranteed. No cigars or cookies, though. We're not that generous.

Great idea! Thank you. Too bad about the cigars, though...

 

[The Trickster]

This should explain everything perfectly for ya.

Check out his channel, he has many videos of him doing this at the BP checks

[video=youtube;u6uw7506xMw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6uw7506xMw[/video]

Thanks for the link. I'm actually a big fan of his and I'm subscribed to his Youtube channel.