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Can they do this legally? Ashland Concert at Riverfront Park Prohibiting Firearms

rscottie

rscottie

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Ashland, Kentucky, USA
solus

solus

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rscottie...here is Ashland's park policies...

CHAPTER 96: PARKS AND PLAYGROUNDS

codelibrary.amlegal.com

§ 96.03 ACTIVITIES PROHIBITED WITHIN ALL PARKS.

Legal publisher offering ordinance codification services for local governments, specializing in providing codes of ordinances in print and on the Internet
codelibrary.amlegal.com

96.03 Activities prohibited within all parks

absolutely nothing stated in this overall parks policies regarding prohibition of firearms whatsoever!!!

now from your link, since the park essentially is owned [rented] by the promoters and as you saw under their heading

PLEASE NOTE FOR THIS EVENT AT THE ASHLAND RIVERFRONT
​
~ Weapons and firearms are not permitted.

therefore, unfortunately it seems explicit no firearms are being allowed by rented management of the park facilities...

now if you wish to meet up during before or after willie's show let me know...tho i think VIP seating would be excellent...
 
rscottie

rscottie

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Messages
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Ashland, Kentucky, USA
solus said:
rscottie...here is Ashland's park policies...

CHAPTER 96: PARKS AND PLAYGROUNDS

codelibrary.amlegal.com

§ 96.03 ACTIVITIES PROHIBITED WITHIN ALL PARKS.

Legal publisher offering ordinance codification services for local governments, specializing in providing codes of ordinances in print and on the Internet
codelibrary.amlegal.com

96.03 Activities prohibited within all parks

absolutely nothing stated in this overall parks policies regarding prohibition of firearms whatsoever!!!

now from your link, since the park essentially is owned [rented] by the promoters and as you saw under their heading

PLEASE NOTE FOR THIS EVENT AT THE ASHLAND RIVERFRONT
​
~ Weapons and firearms are not permitted.

therefore, unfortunately it seems explicit no firearms are being allowed by rented management of the park facilities...

now if you wish to meet up during before or after willie's show let me know...tho i think VIP seating would be excellent...
Click to expand...

I must be missing the regulation that gives them the authority to prohibit firearms.
 
solus

solus

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rscottie, the city has no regulatory prohibition of firearms but rather the event's owner has imposed the mandate there will not be firearms allowed...you have been given appropriate advance notice of the fact.

similar to while CORP WalMart/Sam's says they do not have a problem with firearms in their stores, some of CORP's stores have put up 'no firearms/no open carry' in THIS faciality for whatever rationale...
 
rscottie

rscottie

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Messages
608
Location
Ashland, Kentucky, USA
solus said:
rscottie, the city has no regulatory prohibition of firearms but rather the event's owner has imposed the mandate there will not be firearms allowed...you have been given appropriate advance notice of the fact.

similar to while CORP WalMart/Sam's says they do not have a problem with firearms in their stores, some of CORP's stores have put up 'no firearms/no open carry' in THIS faciality for whatever rationale...
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying.

What I am wondering is what law allows the city to abrogate our rights to the highest bidder?

I was not aware my rights were for sale.

This is a public park, paid for by taxes. It is not a building built and paid for by a private business.

I have looked through Kentucky Statutes and cannot find any law that allows this.
 
KBCraig

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I'm not familiar with Kentucky law, so I don't know if they can legally do that or not.

The Texas preemption statute was written clearly that only the state legislature, and not any political subdivision, could ban guns in/or any property owned or leased by a government entity.

And still they fought that fight for decades. The American Airlines Center and Love Field are two cases I know where the property is owned by the City of Dallas, but the lessees insist they can ban carry.

As a basic principle, the lessee cannot inher rights not possessed by the lessor.
 
G

gutshot II

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Central Ky.
I haven't posted here in some time, but the atmosphere has cleared somewhat and this venue may become a pleasant and useful resource once again, in time. Since this post is about Ky. I thought this might be a good time to jump in.

KRS 237.110 (17):
(17) The owner, business or commercial lessee, or manager of a private business enterprise, .......... may prohibit persons holding concealed deadly weapon licenses from carrying concealed deadly weapons on the premises and may prohibit employees, not authorized by the employer, holding concealed deadly weapons licenses from carrying concealed deadly weapons on the property of the employer. Of course, now that we have constituional carry anyone carrying under that law would also be covered.
You can see KRS 237.110 here: https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/law/statutes/statute.aspx?id=47039

I know that this statute only applies to CONCEALED weapons and that the Ky. constitutional provisions may apply, but this is what you will be faced with when you complain about this. Unless you are prepared for a legal battle all the way to the Ky. Supreme Court don't take it on. You might as well just argue that OC can't be prohibited anywhere and get it over with.

KC3 has worked out agreements with Yum Center in Louisville, the Louisville Convention Center, The Ky. State Fair and Expo Center, Lexington Convention Center(LLC), in which Rupp Arena is housed and several smaller publicly owned venues. What this agreement says is that none of these facilities can ban or regulate guns. A promoter that leases any of these properties and has exclusive use of the venue for a "commercial enterprise" CAN act as if they own the property and that means they can ban guns for the time they lease the property. This same situation exists with Louisville Metro Parks (and all city parks in Ky). If a Metro Park or portion of one, is leased for a "commercial enterprise" the promoter of that event can ban guns. Consider Thunder Over Louisville. That is a free event and therefore not a "commercial enterprise" and guns are not banned thanks to KC3. There is one exception and that happens when the promoter of the event is also an organization that is prohibited from regulating guns by our preemption statute, KRS 65.870. This came up when the Louisville Orchestra held a concert at Iroquois Amphitheater. Neither the Metro Parks nor the Orchestra was allowed to ban guns by state law. So I sat in the middle of the crowd OC.

KC3 is currently involved in a lawsuit with the City of Pikeville over the same issues at several locations in Pikeville, including the 7000-seat arena owned by the City, several city parks, a firefighting school and an RV park. KC3 won that lawsuit in the Ky. Court of Appeals and now Pikeville is appealing to the Ky. Supreme Court. Their appeal has dropped any argument of state laws. I suppose they have decided they can't win on any of them. They now are trying to get the Ky. Supreme Court to rule that no one, even those with a Ky. CCDW can carry a gun, openly or concealed, within 1000 feet of school property(Federal Gun-Free School Zone Act). If that happens, it will be impossible to carry a gun in any municipal area in Ky. These lawsuits affect your legal ability to carry firearms in Ky. KC3 has filed 20 lawsuits and won 19 of them. Pikeville is the only one still in the courts.

I think the gun owners in Ky. should pay more attention to what goes on with the laws and the courts. So far the ball is being carried by just a few people that have decided to not just talk about this stuff but to fight illegal gun bans in the courts. I first made contact with City of Pikeville in 2014 to protest the gun policies of the City. KC3 sued them once and won, then we found more violations later and filed this suit. There is nothing new here. There is nothing happening in secret. There are just not many people paying attention. I used to post regularly here until the atmosphere got so toxic that I left. If you want to know more about this lawsuit you can go the KC3.com or Kentucky Concealed Carry Coalition on Facebook. Both have been active for years.
 
Last edited:
D

defcon4

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Apr 17, 2011
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Location
Alabama
gutshot II said:
I haven't posted here in some time, but the atmosphere has cleared somewhat and this venue may become a pleasant and useful resource once again, in time. Since this post is about Ky. I thought this might be a good time to jump in.

KRS 237.110 (17):
(17) The owner, business or commercial lessee, or manager of a private business enterprise, .......... may prohibit persons holding concealed deadly weapon licenses from carrying concealed deadly weapons on the premises and may prohibit employees, not authorized by the employer, holding concealed deadly weapons licenses from carrying concealed deadly weapons on the property of the employer. Of course, now that we have constituional carry anyone carrying under that law would also be covered.
You can see KRS 237.110 here: https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/law/statutes/statute.aspx?id=47039

I know that this statute only applies to CONCEALED weapons and that the Ky. constitutional provisions may apply, but this is what you will be faced with when you complain about this. Unless you are prepared for a legal battle all the way to the Ky. Supreme Court don't take it on. You might as well just argue that OC can't be prohibited anywhere and get it over with.

KC3 has worked out agreements with Yum Center in Louisville, the Louisville Convention Center, The Ky. State Fair and Expo Center, Lexington Convention Center(LLC), in which Rupp Arena is housed and several smaller publicly owned venues. What this agreement says is that none of these facilities can ban or regulate guns. A promoter that leases any of these properties and has exclusive use of the venue for a "commercial enterprise" CAN act as if they own the property and that means they can ban guns for the time they lease the property. This same situation exists with Louisville Metro Parks (and all city parks in Ky). If a Metro Park or portion of one, is leased for a "commercial enterprise" the promoter of that event can ban guns. Consider Thunder Over Louisville. That is a free event and therefore not a "commercial enterprise" and guns are not banned thanks to KC3. There is one exception and that happens when the promoter of the event is also an organization that is prohibited from regulating guns by our preemption statute, KRS 65.870. This came up when the Louisville Orchestra held a concert at Iroquois Amphitheater. Neither the Metro Parks nor the Orchestra was allowed to ban guns by state law. So I sat in the middle of the crowd OC.

KC3 is currently involved in a lawsuit with the City of Pikeville over the same issues at several locations in Pikeville, including the 7000-seat arena owned by the City, several city parks, a firefighting school and an RV park. KC3 won that lawsuit in the Ky. Court of Appeals and now Pikeville is appealing to the Ky. Supreme Court. Their appeal has dropped any argument of state laws. I suppose they have decided they can't win on any of them. They now are trying to get the Ky. Supreme Court to rule that no one, even those with a Ky. CCDW can carry a gun, openly or concealed, within 1000 feet of school property(Federal Gun-Free School Zone Act). If that happens, it will be impossible to carry a gun in any municipal area in Ky. These lawsuits affect your legal ability to carry firearms in Ky. KC3 has filed 20 lawsuits and won 19 of them. Pikeville is the only one still in the courts.

I think the gun owners in Ky. should pay more attention to what goes on with the laws and the courts. So far the ball is being carried by just a few people that have decided to not just talk about this stuff but to fight illegal gun bans in the courts. I first made contact with City of Pikeville in 2014 to protest the gun policies of the City. KC3 sued them once and won, then we found more violations later and filed this suit. There is nothing new here. There is nothing happening in secret. There are just not many people paying attention. I used to post regularly here until the atmosphere got so toxic that I left. If you want to know more about this lawsuit you can go the KC3.com or Kentucky Concealed Carry Coalition on Facebook. Both have been active for years.
Click to expand...
Welcome back Gutshot II.
 
rscottie

rscottie

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Joined
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Messages
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Location
Ashland, Kentucky, USA
Wanted to resurrect this thread in response to Gutshot II's post in regards to the lawsuits against Pikeville, specifically against prohibiting carrying in the Arena there.

My wife and I recently went to Pikeville to attend a Jeff Dunham Show. (Show was awesome BTW).

Security was wanding everyone and searching purses. They were not even allowing certain purses to be brought in.

For what it's worth, I did not like leaving my firearm and pocket knife locked in the car along with my wife's purse in order to comply with their rules.
 
color of law

color of law

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rscottie said:
Wanted to resurrect this thread in response to Gutshot II's post in regards to the lawsuits against Pikeville, specifically against prohibiting carrying in the Arena there...
Click to expand...
Neither KC3 nor Pikeville won this case. The KY Supreme Court threw it out for standing. So, the matter was never resolved. By default Pikeville won.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=13260226537447445632&q=Pikeville+KC3&hl=en&as_sdt=4,18

Under the authority cited above, we conclude KC3 failed to establish constitutional standing because it failed to produce sufficient proof of any concrete and particularized injury suffered by any of its members. We do not express any opinion on the merits of KC3's claims. Because KC3 lacked standing, the courts below lacked subject-matter jurisdiction to consider the merits of the complaint and the issue of attorney fees. Therefore, the action should have been dismissed in its entirety without prejudice. Moreover, because a dismissal without prejudice does not operate as an adjudication on the merits, there can be no prevailing party for the purpose of obtaining a statutory award of attorney fees. See Buckhannon Bd. & Care Home, Inc. v. W. Va. Dep't of Health & Human Res., 532 U.S. 598, 603, 605, 121 S.Ct. 1835, 149 L.Ed.2d 855 (2001); Walters v. Moore, 121 S.W.3d 210, 215-16 (Ky. App. 2003). We reiterate the dismissal for lack of standing does not preclude future judicial relief should a party become subject to a non-speculative injury and otherwise comply with applicable rules of procedure and statutes of limitation. Beshear v. Acree, 615 S.W.3d 780, 828 (Ky. 2020). Accordingly, we reverse the decision of the Court of Appeals and remand this matter to the trial court with instructions to dismiss the action in its entirety, without prejudice.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Bill Starks

Bill Starks

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rscottie said:
Wanted to resurrect this thread in response to Gutshot II's post in regards to the lawsuits against Pikeville, specifically against prohibiting carrying in the Arena there.

My wife and I recently went to Pikeville to attend a Jeff Dunham Show. (Show was awesome BTW).

Security was wanding everyone and searching purses. They were not even allowing certain purses to be brought in.

For what it's worth, I did not like leaving my firearm and pocket knife locked in the car along with my wife's purse in order to comply with their rules.
Click to expand...
I used this trick when entering the stadiums in Seattle. I wrapped my knife/firearm in the collar of my jacket holding tight to the collar. Security will wand you and "usually, if at all, the pocket region of the jacket. I then walk to a bathroom or corner, reholster and pocket my knife.

** Washington laws when I lived there allowed carry at the stadiums but because they were leased to a 3rd party, that 3rd party's rules were allowed to override state law. We fought and lost on several attempts.
 
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