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Can a police officer lawfully order someone to enter their home if they are outside?

DocWalker

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Jul 6, 2008
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1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
What does your city do if you have an infirm retired person who is unable to physically and financially shovel or pay for someone to shovel the sidewalk? :) Also, do they publish standards of what is "acceptable" clearing in order for the homeowner to avoid being forced to absorbe the city's sidewalk liability if someone slips on the city's sidewalk?

This is just like our policy.

http://www.slcgov.com/civilenforcement/snow-removal
 

carolina guy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2012
Messages
1,737
Location
Concord, NC


Sounds like the city should be sued...they are trying to get the residents to keep them in compliance with ADA requirements. Perhaps sending the city a bill for each snow removal using their published rates would be a good start? :) Again, not really sure of IA laws...but this doesn't pass the smell test to me.
 

Freedom1Man

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Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
SNIP
If they park a city vehicle in your front yard, do you have to wash it and check the tire pressure as well? What if they pass an ordinance requiring such, would you feel the same duty? ;)

I would take it as the city had intended to gift it to me.

I would then start selling off the parts and/or keep it for my own uses.
 

davidmcbeth

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Jan 14, 2012
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Location
earth's crust

14.20.070: SNOW TO BE REMOVED FROM CITY SIDEWALKS:linklink

It is unlawful for the owner, occupant, lessor, or agent of property abutting a paved city sidewalk to fail to remove or cause to be removed from the length and breadth of the entire sidewalk abutting such property all hail, snow, or sleet falling thereon, within twenty four (24) hours after such hail, snow, or sleet has ceased falling at the Salt Lake City Airport as reported by the National Weather Service. Each day such sidewalk is not so cleared shall constitute a new violation. (Ord. 81-10, 2010)


14.20.110: FAILURE TO REMOVE HAIL, SNOW, AND SLEET; CIVIL PENALTIES:linklink


A. Any owner, occupant, lessor, or agent of property abutting a paved city sidewalk who fails to comply with section 14.20.070 of this chapter is guilty of a civil violation. Such violation shall be handled by the Salt Lake City justice court in accordance with the procedures set forth in title 2, chapter 2.75 of this code, or its successor. Notice of a civil violation may be given: 1) to the owner, occupant, lessee, or agent of the property by hand delivery or 2) by mailing of the notice by first class mail to the owner of record.

B. The civil penalty for violation of this section shall be as set forth below:

1. For any property with street front footage of two hundred feet (200') or less:

a. Fifty dollars ($50.00) for each day hail, snow, or sleet is not removed from sidewalks within twenty four (24) hours;

b. Seventy five dollars ($75.00) for each day hail, snow, or sleet is not removed from sidewalks within forty eight (48) hours; and

c. One hundred dollars ($100.00) for each day hail, snow, or sleet is not removed from sidewalks within seventy two (72) hours.

2. For any property with street front footage of more than two hundred feet (200'):

a. One hundred dollars ($100.00) for each day hail, snow, or sleet is not removed from sidewalks within twenty four (24) hours;

b. One hundred fifty dollars ($150.00) for each day hail, snow, or sleet is not removed from sidewalks within forty eight (48) hours; and

c. Two hundred dollars ($200.00) for each day hail, snow, or sleet is not removed from sidewalks within seventy two (72) hours. (Ord. 81-10, 2010)


Actual ordinances ^^^

Looks like they'll need a good deal of evidence to get a judgment ... and I don't pay civil judgments anyways ... :p
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
I don't know the laws in your state, but it certainly doesn't sound "just" does it? ...
Well, there ya go.

In my state, and town, I paid to have the sidewalk put down as a part of the cost of the lot when I bought it. Yepper, the entire cost of that small section of sidewalk, right there in the cost breakdown for the lot. I own the sidewalk, I did not want a sidewalk, but the town said I must have a sidewalk due to the easement they hold. Not all residential developments are required to have sidewalks in MO.

However, my condition is not what the OP is asking. It has been shown that the claim that he can disregard the cops, in a apartment complex, has been proven to be incorrect. I disagree with the juries decision, but it is what it is. It certainly did not appear to me that he impeded the cops and as such got hosed.
 

Grim_Night

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
776
Location
Pierce County, Washington
UPDATE:

Had my hearing today for my stay of sentencing. The actual judge for the city of Lakewood wasted no time at all in granting the motion. the only 3 conditions of the stay that I have to abide by are #1 notify the court within 48 hours of any change of my residential address and if my change of residence is going to be outside of Pierce county, I have to get permission. #2 I have to diligently pursue the appeal. And #3 maintain law abiding behavior. Ironic considering I was arrested for law abiding behavior.

The prosecutor tried to add in a $1000 bail but that was quickly smacked down by the judge considering the nature of the case, the fact that I have attended all of my court hearings and other misc. reasons. In total, I think the hearing lasted all of about 5 minutes. My lawyer told me that the entire appeal process could take up to 2 years depending on how things go.

I have a good feeling that the conviction will be overturned on appeal. The only question is whether it will be sent back to the trial court for a new trial or outright dismissed on constitutional grounds. I will be getting a copy of all of the court recordings regarding my case asap and will get a copy of the trial transcript as soon as it is available.

A couple of key points to cover regarding the trial:

1. One officer testified that he in fact told me that I was in fact not legally required to go inside when I asked him as soon as he "requested" that I do so. He was further questioned and testified that he never at any time told me that I was legally required to go inside and remove myself from the scene. He also testified that another officer "might" have told me that I was legally required to leave the scene and go inside.

2. The officer that was mentioned by the above officer testified that he never told me that I was legally required to leave the scene and to go inside and in fact, he didn't even know that the previous officer had told me that I was NOT legally required to leave the scene and go inside when originally requested. He also testified that at no point did he give me any warning at all that if I did not leave the scene and go inside, I would be arrested for obstruction.

3. Multiple officers testified that they had been informed that I was recording the incident or that they thought that I was because of the presence of electronic devices in my possession that could be used to record.

4. All officers that testified that up until my arrest, I had never moved from my original location at the time of the initial contact.

5. The pierce county sheriff deputy (K-9 officer) testified that he more then likely could have tracked around me with his dog but once there were multiple people at my location, the tracking became impossible. The multiple people at my location were the Lakewood PD officers that were questioning me and arresting me. In short, had the Lakewood PD officers simple left me alone, the K-9 officer more then likely would have been able to continue with the track for the suspect that he was searching for.

6. All officers that testified, testified that they knew of no law that they could cite that gave them the authority to require that a citizen cease exercising a right protected by the constitution. In this case, to cease observing and recording the officers, to leave the scene and go back inside my home. I was never given any alternative at all that would have allowed me to continue to observe and record the police. In fact, I was never given any options at all. I was simply told to go back inside my home where I would have completely lost the ability to observe and record the police.
 

OC for ME

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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
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White Oak Plantation
UPDATE: ...
And how exactly was a jury convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that you obstructed? Just cuz a cop said so? Also, that judge just sat there and let the cops testify that you didn't break any law, they knew of no law that you broke, yet you were convicted of breaking a law?

Yepper, you got hosed. Another shinning example of cops making crap up, a POS prosecutor making crap up, a judge going along with made up crap, and a citizen being run through the legal system wringer over made up crap.

Good luck and sue the pants off all those nitwits when the opportunity arrives.
 

solus

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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
grim, glad the hearing went well as you anticipated. yet sorry the judge didn't have the temerity to throw out the case in its entirety right then and there instead of pushing it back into the shadows.

thanks for keeping us up to date.
ipse
 

sudden valley gunner

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Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
And how exactly was a jury convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that you obstructed? Just cuz a cop said so? Also, that judge just sat there and let the cops testify that you didn't break any law, they knew of no law that you broke, yet you were convicted of breaking a law?

Yepper, you got hosed. Another shinning example of cops making crap up, a POS prosecutor making crap up, a judge going along with made up crap, and a citizen being run through the legal system wringer over made up crap.

Good luck and sue the pants off all those nitwits when the opportunity arrives.

Too many juries around here think like apologist who think the mundanes should follow the orders of the enforcers.
 

Freedom1Man

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Jan 14, 2012
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Location
Greater Eastside Washington
And how exactly was a jury convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that you obstructed? Just cuz a cop said so? Also, that judge just sat there and let the cops testify that you didn't break any law, they knew of no law that you broke, yet you were convicted of breaking a law?

Yepper, you got hosed. Another shinning example of cops making crap up, a POS prosecutor making crap up, a judge going along with made up crap, and a citizen being run through the legal system wringer over made up crap.

Good luck and sue the pants off all those nitwits when the opportunity arrives.

The judges could have been making up the law like what happened in my case.
 

davidmcbeth

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earth's crust
And how exactly was a jury convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that you obstructed? Just cuz a cop said so? Also, that judge just sat there and let the cops testify that you didn't break any law, they knew of no law that you broke, yet you were convicted of breaking a law?

Yepper, you got hosed. Another shinning example of cops making crap up, a POS prosecutor making crap up, a judge going along with made up crap, and a citizen being run through the legal system wringer over made up crap.

Good luck and sue the pants off all those nitwits when the opportunity arrives.

Was a motion to acquit filed after the state rested in the case? After all that cop testimony, shown in this thread's post a very posts ago, I would have...then the judge would rule on it and not the jury.

Looks like you were found guilty. Only sentencing is stayed until appeal is over.
 

Grim_Night

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Pierce County, Washington
Was a motion to acquit filed after the state rested in the case? After all that cop testimony, shown in this thread's post a very posts ago, I would have...then the judge would rule on it and not the jury.

Looks like you were found guilty. Only sentencing is stayed until appeal is over.

Yes, my lawyer made a half time motion and was denied. This is grounds for an appeal in and of itself. I never took the stand and testified as my lawyers told me that it would likely neither hurt nor help my case. They felt that the police officers had made my case for me.
 

sudden valley gunner

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16,674
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Whatcom County
Yes, my lawyer made a half time motion and was denied. This is grounds for an appeal in and of itself. I never took the stand and testified as my lawyers told me that it would likely neither hurt nor help my case. They felt that the police officers had made my case for me.


Never testify. You don't know how the opposing persecutor will twist your words.

I heard that it can be beneficial to make your own opening statements, a very brief one that includes the right to nullify bad laws and that judges instructions don't necessarily have to be followed.
 

wimwag

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Dec 10, 2013
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Doug
This case is a good example of why I never help cops. If I see a cop being shot or beaten to death, I will remove myself from the situation and live my life. I have been screwed over many times and there's just too many bad cops out there to risk ever putting myself out there. My responsibility is to myself and my family. Cops can call for backup and are immune from liability, even when they murder while on the job.
 

Freedom1Man

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Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
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Greater Eastside Washington
Atlhough I have zero respect for agents of the state, I would help another human being in trouble, even ones wearing funny costumes and badges.

I've been bit too many times to want to save that dog from drowning. I understand your feelings and I agree with your point of view much/most of the time, but this time, it would really depend on my mood as to whether I decided to help out one of the state's gang members.

And that's why your a good guy. (Being serious).

You're*

Your = ownership

You're = a contraction of the words you are.
 

Primus

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Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
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United States
I've been bit too many times to want to save that dog from drowning. I understand your feelings and I agree with your point of view much/most of the time, but this time, it would really depend on my mood as to whether I decided to help out one of the state's gang members.



You're*

Your = ownership

You're = a contraction of the words you are.
:D thanks my love
 
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