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Bad Intercity Transit! Bad! Bad!

sv_libertarian

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So I went downtown today to pull out some money, and opted to ride the bus back partway home. I took advantage of the nice weather to OC my 6" stainless Security 6 (ironically, it's the Bicentennial Edition, rollmarked "Made in the 200th year of American Liberty") As I walked towards my bus, a driver noticed my revolver and asked the usual stupid question of "Is that real?" I just smiled, and said "yup", and kept going to my bus.

I boarded my bus, which was also having mechanical problems, and their unarmed and contract security told me I had to get off. I got off, and told him to call the director of the system, and pointed out the law was on my side.

Few minutes later, a supervisor pulls up, and manages to determine that yes I'm right, they are wrong and makes a half assed effort at apologizing.

I have sent a rather nasty letter to the admin of IT, and demanded an apology. Should be interesting to watch them cover their butts.

EDIT, dunno why I typed I have not... lol
 

sv_libertarian

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Mainsail wrote:
That keeps happening to you.  :D

Shall we discuss what used to keep happening to you? :p Methinks the whole 6'9" dude with a overgrown .357 might be half the problem... But damnit, I *like* that revolver. And I'm not switching to the Smith 64-3 just so the liberals don't get as upset.
 

sv_libertarian

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Son_of_Perdition wrote:
You could make a point of it so as to bring it to their attention. Perhaps it would make it easier for you or another OCer in the future?

The point is, I did. Over two years ago. Right after I started the process to tidy things up with OPD over OC. IT just screwed up this time. They have documentation that this is legal, they have told their staff about it. Someone screwed up.

As far as making things easier for other OC'rs... I have. A lot. This is just a refresher course for IT.
 

Aryk45XD

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What else would you expect from unarmed security. Their whole job is a farse. I always noticed that type of security, for the most part, would usually either freak out or look down until I cheerfully greeted them multiple times.
He was probably new, and didn't know any better. I bet he does now though. If he was rude or confrontational, I vote you should follow up. If it seems he learned something, I'd say leave it at that.
BTW, you do seem to get a lot of the yahoos. Makes me kinda glad I'm short and skinny. :lol:
 

Aryk45XD

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OOPS. Didn't know you've been down this road before. I kinda forgot all the training bulletins covering this too.
Hang them from their underdeveloped testies.
 

sv_libertarian

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It was IT staff that went to the security guard. I contacted all their operational staff and raised a fuss. See what comes of it. I demanded a written apology and retraining of their staff.
 

Son_of_Perdition

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SW , Washington, USA
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sv_libertarian wrote:
Son_of_Perdition wrote:
You could make a point of it so as to bring it to their attention. Perhaps it would make it easier for you or another OCer in the future?

The point is, I did. Over two years ago. Right after I started the process to tidy things up with OPD over OC. IT just screwed up this time. They have documentation that this is legal, they have told their staff about it. Someone screwed up.

As far as making things easier for other OC'rs... I have. A lot. This is just a refresher course for IT.
Sorry, I'm new:uhoh:

Talk about a pain. It might be a little inconvenient but can you keep that Documentation on you when you ride a Bus? Yes I know, it is not your job to train them. And I only say this based on my own experiences of a sorta similar nature. I found it to be easier to adapt topeoples cluelessness then fight them without proof of my justification.
 

massivedesign

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12 years ago, I was head of Security for IT (Private company), I was in charge of the Oly Center as well as the Lacey Center....

The company I worked for is no longer the firm that is there, but IT KNOW's that it's legal, all the drivers KNOW that it's legal and the supervisors KNOW it's legal. When I worked there, we had at least one MWAG call over the security radio per day... After a while we had them all trained well enough that it was just an informational call, and no action was needed. (action, like informing the driver to relax, and that it's legal).

I am glad the supervisor was able to get it straightened out... Pains me to see they have reverted back to paranoia after I worked so hard to get that place secure, safe and happy...
 

sv_libertarian

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Well 4 years ago when I moved to Oly, IT had a no gun policy. I managed to straighten them out, and have the bulletin they sent out to their staff two and a half years ago. Once the supervisor found someone who knew what was up, everything was fine. But it's annoying as all heck to have to go through that.

Perdition, I'm not going to carry documents. I don't have to. IT has them all on file, and I have spoken to their director about it before. On top of it, once they start acting stupid, they aren't gonna care what papers I have to show them. It's not worth the trouble lol.
 

Aryk45XD

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True. The only time I carried documentation was to SEATAC airport. I carried for reference while waiting for the flight with the women and children. Not mine, just great friends I was picking up. I had to have something to read and TSA was all over me watching.
 

Bookman

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Winston Salem, North Carolina, United States
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Aryk45XD wrote:
What else would you expect from unarmed security. Their whole job is a farse. I always noticed that type of security, for the most part, would usually either freak out or look down until I cheerfully greeted them multiple times.
He was probably new, and didn't know any better. I bet he does now though. If he was rude or confrontational, I vote you should follow up. If it seems he learned something, I'd say leave it at that.
BTW, you do seem to get a lot of the yahoos. Makes me kinda glad I'm short and skinny. :lol:

I work unarmed security. Everyone I work with knows it's legal. My Security Manager and at least two of my coworkers are members of this board. We KNOW OC is legal and we support it. We also know whether or not guns are allowed on a particular site.

I would suggest that you stop painting with such a broad brush.
 

amzbrady

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Marysville, Washington, USA
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Bookman wrote:
Aryk45XD wrote:
What else would you expect from unarmed security. Their whole job is a farse. I always noticed that type of security, for the most part, would usually either freak out or look down until I cheerfully greeted them multiple times.
He was probably new, and didn't know any better. I bet he does now though. If he was rude or confrontational, I vote you should follow up. If it seems he learned something, I'd say leave it at that.
BTW, you do seem to get a lot of the yahoos. Makes me kinda glad I'm short and skinny. :lol:

I work unarmed security. Everyone I work with knows it's legal. My Security Manager and at least two of my coworkers are members of this board. We KNOW OC is legal and we support it. We also know whether or not guns are allowed on a particular site.

I would suggest that you stop painting with such a broad brush.
Question? As unarmed security, If you see someone steal something from a store, do you or can you, give chase,tackle, detain, and handcuff them?
 

swatspyder

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University Place, Washington, USA
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amzbrady wrote:
Bookman wrote:
Aryk45XD wrote:
What else would you expect from unarmed security. Their whole job is a farse. I always noticed that type of security, for the most part, would usually either freak out or look down until I cheerfully greeted them multiple times.
He was probably new, and didn't know any better. I bet he does now though. If he was rude or confrontational, I vote you should follow up. If it seems he learned something, I'd say leave it at that.
BTW, you do seem to get a lot of the yahoos. Makes me kinda glad I'm short and skinny. :lol:

I work unarmed security. Everyone I work with knows it's legal. My Security Manager and at least two of my coworkers are members of this board. We KNOW OC is legal and we support it. We also know whether or not guns are allowed on a particular site.

I would suggest that you stop painting with such a broad brush.
Question? As unarmed security, If you see someone steal something from a store, do you or can you, give chase,tackle, detain, and handcuff them?
Better question, why would you risk your life over property that you do not even own?
 

amzbrady

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swatspyder wrote:
amzbrady wrote:
Bookman wrote:
Aryk45XD wrote:
What else would you expect from unarmed security. Their whole job is a farse. I always noticed that type of security, for the most part, would usually either freak out or look down until I cheerfully greeted them multiple times.
He was probably new, and didn't know any better. I bet he does now though. If he was rude or confrontational, I vote you should follow up. If it seems he learned something, I'd say leave it at that.
BTW, you do seem to get a lot of the yahoos. Makes me kinda glad I'm short and skinny. :lol:

I work unarmed security. Everyone I work with knows it's legal. My Security Manager and at least two of my coworkers are members of this board. We KNOW OC is legal and we support it. We also know whether or not guns are allowed on a particular site.

I would suggest that you stop painting with such a broad brush.
Question? As unarmed security, If you see someone steal something from a store, do you or can you, give chase,tackle, detain, and handcuff them?
Better question, why would you risk your life over property that you do not even own?

No, it's a legality question. Legally can an unarmed security gaurd chase, tackle, detain, and handcuff a theif?

Edited for second question. Is there such thing in WA, as a handcuff card to own handcuffs and show you have been trained to use them? Yeah I know sounds stupid, but there is a reason I ask.
 

END_THE_FED

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Seattle, Washington, USA
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Bookman wrote:
Aryk45XD wrote:
What else would you expect from unarmed security. Their whole job is a farse. I always noticed that type of security, for the most part, would usually either freak out or look down until I cheerfully greeted them multiple times.
He was probably new, and didn't know any better. I bet he does now though. If he was rude or confrontational, I vote you should follow up. If it seems he learned something, I'd say leave it at that.
BTW, you do seem to get a lot of the yahoos. Makes me kinda glad I'm short and skinny. :lol:

I work unarmed security. Everyone I work with knows it's legal. My Security Manager and at least two of my coworkers are members of this board. We KNOW OC is legal and we support it. We also know whether or not guns are allowed on a particular site.

I would suggest that you stop painting with such a broad brush.
I work security as well, and unfortunately he is kinda right. There are a lot of people in our business that are complete tool sheds.
 

END_THE_FED

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amzbrady wrote:
Bookman wrote:
Aryk45XD wrote:
What else would you expect from unarmed security. Their whole job is a farse. I always noticed that type of security, for the most part, would usually either freak out or look down until I cheerfully greeted them multiple times.
He was probably new, and didn't know any better. I bet he does now though. If he was rude or confrontational, I vote you should follow up. If it seems he learned something, I'd say leave it at that.
BTW, you do seem to get a lot of the yahoos. Makes me kinda glad I'm short and skinny. :lol:

I work unarmed security. Everyone I work with knows it's legal. My Security Manager and at least two of my coworkers are members of this board. We KNOW OC is legal and we support it. We also know whether or not guns are allowed on a particular site.

I would suggest that you stop painting with such a broad brush.
Question? As unarmed security, If you see someone steal something from a store, do you or can you, give chase,tackle, detain, and handcuff them?
Depends on the situation and on company policy.

Legally speaking for the most part security has no more authority to arrest then anyone else. (must witness a felony)
one exception to this is If you are working for a retail store and have probable cause that someone has stolen something you can detain them by reasonable means on the store property or in the immediate area, but the same goes for anyone who works for the store not just security.
 

Aryk45XD

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Book, I paint with a broad brush because there are little of the educated and motivated personal out there that really know the law and what they are entitled to. That is an observation I have found from my experiences. It's the same as the uneducated people in this city that don't realize open carry is legal. It's not their fault they are not motivated to learn what the laws are. I did not say all unarmed security is uneducated in this right...just that their job is farse.
Could an unarmed security stop a threat physically with exteme measures without losing their job? Unless they work for the grestest company ever... I didn't think so.
I have more of a right to stop somebody from a crime than most security do. That's a really bad realization in America.

ETA: I'm really interested in Amz question about cuffs. I have been through the cuffs and ziptie training and would not mind having zipties on me. I keep them close at work and home, but would really like to have them on my person.
 

massivedesign

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Olympia, Washington, USA
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There is no cuff card in WA. I own many sets. I have been trained to use them too (along with zip-ties).

The main thing is that if you use cuffs, you better know how, why and when. Because if you cause injury to the person, or unlawfully detain them, you will be feeling that cold steel around your wrists.

To answer the question about physical force, you have whatever rights are granted to you by the client as well as the employer. We used to work security at a bar, with the interest to protect the patrons as well as the customers / employees. You can bet your a** we used whatever force was necessary to remove / detain a person causing bodily harm. Another site, IT for example, was a hands off, period.. But after a few drivers got assaulted, that changed. Both of those were un-armed sites. We also had a few sites that were strictly observe and report... no contact with the offender, not "stop or I'll say stop again".. Just call the police and watch, record. Be a good witness.
 
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