Arrested in Courthouse

[LEO 229]

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I know you cannot take them on the plane... I saw an article on it a while back.

 

[unrequited]

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Any word on the appeal? If mum's the word, I understand.

 

[ggd276]

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missing the point you can oc in a car but they said they shoot

 

[ggd276]

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sure you can trust leo to not make the law up as they go

 

[Doug Huffman]

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'On the plane' like a snap-cap or a 1.00 caliber personal vibrator? Too bullet like. Would Beldar be profiled as too cone-like?

 

[DrMark]

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Doug Huffman wrote:

'On the plane' like a snap-cap or a 1.00 caliber personal vibrator? Too bullet like. Would Beldar be profiled as too cone-like?

"Beldar"

:lol:

 

[ggd276]

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most times guilty if so or not.,must make paperwork easy

 

[longwatch]

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Lets stay on topic, I'm not seeing much that resembles the OP now.

 

[The Donkey]

My lawyer is looking into if that is the case, that this cannot be extended as we had hoped, if it is then I will just deal with having a record the rest of my life in VA I guess, but if not then I will attempt to do the extending thing in appeals court in order to prevent having a record.

I am wondering:

1. whether you ever filed your appeal and what the outcome was;

2. what our legal wags have to say about mens re in cases like this where somebody forgets what they have packed, or discloses something that would be contraband on the inside of a building at a security checkpoint. Any precedents on point?

 

[The Donkey]

Yes, it is well established law that mens rea is satisfied by negligence, recklessness, strict liability and certain knowledge. Except for strict liability, these classes of mens rea are defined in Section 2.02(2) of the American Law Institute Model Penal Code http://www1.law.umkc.edu/suni/CrimLaw/MPC_Provisions/model_penal_code_default_rules.htm

The reference helped, but I am pretty sure that your description of the law is incorrect.

The Model Penal Code provides:

(3) Culpability Required Unless Otherwise Provided. When the culpability sufficient to establish a material element of an offense is not prescribed by law, such element is established if a person acts purposely, knowingly or recklessly with respect thereto.

What is missing there is negligence. So under the Model Penal Code -- were this language adopted in the relevant State -- if a person's carry-on bag contained a firearm but they did not know it, they would not be guilty of an offense, unless the statute stated that "negligently" bringing a weapon into the controlled area of the airport violated the law.

Also, wouldn't the culpability of what Thorsmitersaw did depend on his state of mind: if he did not realize he was carrying ammo until he pulled it out of his pocket at the security checkpoint, and was then prepared to bring it back to the car if asked, did he have the necessary state of mind to be found guilty of the offense?

 

[The Donkey]

Probably will find precedents with Lexis -- and will likely try. But I am interested in stuff that isn't so widely reported too: personal experiences of such cases being dismissed, and trial court cases, which usually do not make it onto Westlaw, Lexis, Google Scholar and the like.

Anybody had anything like this happen or know someone who did?

Did anybody ever try arguing that you can't "possess" a weapon unless you know you have it?

 

[LouieLouie]

The elimination of "mens rea" is very dangerous. Google the term "Overcriminalization".

 

[ProShooter]

Did anybody ever try arguing that you can't "possess" a weapon unless you know you have it?

That line made me remember something and laugh. Years ago, I had a woman come into the courthouse with a baby, diaper bag, stroller....the works. I found a blackjack in her diaper bag, of all places. She said that she had no idea that it was in there and that her husband had the diaper bag the day before. Apparently he had found the thing on the street and stuck it in the bag and forgot it. The look of surprise on her face when I pulled the blackjack out was priceless!

I gave her the benefit of the doubt, and cut her loose. Could have arrested her, but I honestly believed that she had no idea that the blackjack was there.