Arrested in Courthouse

[xd.40]

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Glad that things turned out "ok" compared to what they could have been. Why did the prosecution waste his time prosecuting you instead of MS-13 gang members or murderers? For what? a $250 fine? I bet the county spent more than that in salaries and fees trying to "punish" you. I bet you won't forget about a magazine again though, will you :lol:

 

[Marco]

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What was/is the charge on your record?
Be sure to get copies of the disposition for your records.

 

[Slowhand]

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thorsmitersaw wrote:

update*

Went to court yesterday.

Mr Gardiner was my lawyer. Very good guy, very knowledgeable and money well spent I believe.

The state prosecutor was some younger guy who Mr.Gardiner said seemed to want to act tough. That and the fact that they found a bullet in my coat pocket which I did NOT give to the security guard voluntarily (I didn't know it was in there to be honest so I couldn't really voluntarily give them something I didn't KNOW I had, but of course the state sees it as "deception") he was unwilling to extend the charge for a year. Instead he offered 250 bucks fine, the charge, and 30days suspended jail time. (I honestly don't know what the hell "suspended" jail time is. What is the point of 30 days in jail as a sentence if you don't have to serve it?)

Iwas willing to chance it to prevent he permanent charge on my record. So we went ahead into court and the judge seemed very sympathetic to me (Mr.Gardiner said he was a former defense attorney) but said something about a recent ruling (which I assume established precedent or outlawed the act of) extending the charge for a year or what not for this specific charge. Other than that he removed the 30 days suspended and just applied a 250 dollar fine along with the charge.

However, Mr.Gardiner is looking into this ruling the judgeis speaking of and if there is something to do, we will be going to the appeals court in an attempt to ask for the same in order to avoid having that misdemeanor on my record. He will be calling me within a few days

Sounds like it went pretty well. I would be curious to read that "recent ruling". The court will often issue a jail sentence and then suspend it. But if you violate the conditions of the sentence, for example; not pay the fine, or violate a probation, the court can implement or reinstate the suspended sentence, and you go to jail.

 

[hsmith]

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Good to hear you didn't get slapped on the wrist too bad!

 

[longwatch]

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Thanks for the update, a modest fine isn't so bad all things considered.

Edited, thanks BB

 

[bayboy42]

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longwatch wrote:

Thanks for the update, a modest fine and suspended jail time, could be worse.

Read it again ....is that what he received?:question:

 

[Thors_Mitersaw]

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Agent19 wrote:

What was/is the charge on your record?
Be sure to get copies of the disposition for your records.

class 1 misdemeanor, posesion fo a weapon in courthouse

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-283.1

it was ammunition, but unfortuneately that is also covered in the law as well.

 

[Thors_Mitersaw]

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bayboy42 wrote:

longwatch wrote:

Thanks for the update, a modest fine and suspended jail time, could be worse.

Read it again ....is that what he received?:question:

yes. a 250 dollar fine and the class 1 on my record. However, in an attempt to get no fine and more importantly no misdemeanors on my record (so as to keep it clean and not jeopordize future employment) I MAY be taking it to the appeals court to request again that the charges be extended for a years probation.

 

[xd.40]

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I think it's time to have that law changed. That seems ridiculous to be charged with possession of a weapon when all you had was a component of one. Maybe a separate code section that would cover ammo and parts, but would be a lesser charge - possibly a class 4 misdemeanor (if not an infraction)?

 

[Thors_Mitersaw]

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xd.40 wrote:

I think it's time to have that law changed. That seems ridiculous to be charged with possession of a weapon when all you had was a component of one. Maybe a separate code section that would cover ammo and parts, but would be a lesser charge - possibly a class 4 misdemeanor (if not an infraction)?

I would even settle for intent being added to the law. If there was a clause about intent then it could certainely have been proven that I was not intending to go in their and shoot the place up. Intent could help protect permit holders who make mistakes or a gun smith with a hammer in his pocket from going to jail. etc. I imagine if intent was apart of the charge I could have had the charges dropped

 

[massltca]

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LEO 229 wrote:

cagueits wrote:

How about you claim your "constitutional right" to carry arms covers that magazine and ammo as well.

Lawyer up if you can; but, if you are unable to do so: (1) re-read the US and VA Constitutions and claim your constitutional right to carry arms and (2) argue that the statue that you were charged for requieresto have act A and act B comitted together for the specific statute to apply to you.

On the court day, be very very respectul with the judge -the court room is not the place to snap and makederrogatory comments of officers who have the power to throw you in jail for a while. Calm down and suck it up. File an administrative complaint against the officers with the parent agency (County Sherrifs Office, Police Dept or the courts if it is a Court Security Officer); state the maner in wichyou feel the officers in question treated you in a wrongful manner. You mayfile a complaintagainst the magistrate as well, if I'm not mistaken, with the Judicial Inquiry and Review Commission (see below):

http://www.courts.state.va.us/pamphlets/inquiry.htm

Excerpt:

The Commission investigates complaints of judicial misconduct or serious mental or physical disability that interfere with a judge's duties. Misconduct includes, but is not limited to:

• allowing family, social or other relationships to influence judgment;
• failing to maintain proper courtroom decorum;
• failing to be patient, dignified and courteous;
• failing to promptly dispose of court business;
• engaging in private conversations which may influence judicial actions;
• commenting publicly concerning a pending matter;
• failing to disqualify in a proceeding in which impartiality reasonably might be questioned;
• accepting gifts or favors from litigants or lawyers;
• engaging in the practice of law (unless a retired or substitute judge); or
• engaging in political activity.

Also, Philip at VCDL was asking for members to contact him if they had any problems with judges. Relection time is around the corner for them, so that means the Senate has to review the judges' performance.

So because he unintentionally broke the law.... he should file complaints on everyone else involved in the legal process?

How about he wait till after court and he can file a complaint on the Judge, the Clerk, and the bailiff too.

This is the classic case of... "file enough complaints so they will just drop the charges."

People can be such morons when they think filing a idiotic complaint really does any good.

So he should just bend over and take it? Come on, its attitudes like that got this country to the sorry state its in today.

 

[LEO 229]

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massltca wrote:

So he should just bend over and take it? Come on, its attitudes like that got this country to the sorry state its in today.

So you are saying... "Because he wrong and is going to get 'screwed' by the system... He should screw those that area screwing him." ?????

Sounds logical to me. :?

 

[LEO 229]

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thorsmitersaw wrote:

...... (I honestly dont know what the hell "suspended" jail time is. What is the point of 30 days in jail as a sentence if you dont have to serve it?) ....
....but said something about a recent ruling (which I assume established precident or outlawed the act of) extending the charge for a year or what not for this specific charge.
....

If they suspend the 30 days... this is on condition that you areon good behavior for one year. If you screw up.... you get 30 days in jail!!

Some charges they can extend out a year if you have a clean record. If you do not screw up... they drop it from your record.

From what you were saying... it appears that the Judge is not permitted to do that in this case. Even if he could... it does not mean that he must. It the Judge'sdecision.

 

[massltca]

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LEO 229 wrote:

massltca wrote:

So he should just bend over and take it? Come on, its attitudes like that got this country to the sorry state its in today.

So you are saying... "Because he wrong and is going to get 'screwed' by the system... He should screw those that area screwing him." ?????

Sounds logical to me. :?

No I am saying that if there is in fact judical misconduct going on then complaints should be filed. They come down on people harderfor honest mistakes in my opinion.

 

[Thors_Mitersaw]

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LEO 229 wrote:

thorsmitersaw wrote:

...... (I honestly dont know what the hell "suspended" jail time is. What is the point of 30 days in jail as a sentence if you dont have to serve it?) ....
....but said something about a recent ruling (which I assume established precident or outlawed the act of) extending the charge for a year or what not for this specific charge.
....

If they suspend the 30 days... this is on condition that you areon good behavior for one year. If you screw up.... you get 30 days in jail!!

Some charges they can extend out a year if you have a clean record. If you do not screw up... they drop it from your record.

From what you were saying... it appears that the Judge is not permitted to do that in this case. Even if he could... it does not mean that he must. It the Judge'sdecision.

ah ok. I was totally clueless as to what suspended jail time is.


My lawyer is looking into if that is the case, that this cannot be extended as we had hoped, if it is then I will just deal with having a record the rest of my life in VA I guess, but if not then I will attempt to do the extending thing in appeals court in order to prevent having a record.

 

[LEO 229]

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thorsmitersaw wrote:

ah ok. I was totally clueless as to what suspended jail time is.


My lawyer is looking into if that is the case, that this cannot be extended as we had hoped, if it is then I will just deal with having a record the rest of my life in VA I guess, but if not then I will attempt to do the extending thing in appeals court in order to prevent having a record.

Sucks to get jammed up like you did.....

Personally... You did advise that you had the ammo and I would have let you go back to your car.

Big difference in turning yourself in prior and trying to actually sneak it in.


Best of luck to you.

 

[LEO 229]

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massltca wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

massltca wrote:

So he should just bend over and take it? Come on, its attitudes like that got this country to the sorry state its in today.

So you are saying... "Because he wrong and is going to get 'screwed' by the system... He should screw those that area screwing him." ?????

Sounds logical to me. :?

No I am saying that if there is in fact judical misconduct going on then complaints should be filed. They come down on people harderfor honest mistakes in my opinion.

I recall you said:

"File an administrative complaint against the officers with the parent agency (County Sherrifs Office, Police Dept or the courts if it is a Court Security Officer);

state the maner in wichyou feel the officers in question treated you in a wrongful manner. You mayfile a complaintagainst the magistrate as well, if I'm not mistaken, with the Judicial Inquiry and Review Commission (see below)"


You clearly suggested that the person file a complaint against EVERYONE involved and to state that the person was treated in a wrongful manner.

I never saw any evidence that he was treated wrongfully. He was charged for a crime and I see no wrong doing there. It appears to me you wanted someone to just complain and make stuff up.

Perhaps you did not write things clearly.

I am not sure honest people get hammered any harder in the end. A crime is a crime done by honest people making a mistakeora criminal will evil intent.

It is unfortunate that they did not use better discretion in his case but this does not signify any misconduct. Furthermore... how would the magistrate be guilty for hearing the evidence and issuing a warrant? That is his job.

 

[Doug Huffman]

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A crime is a crime done by honest people making a mistake or a criminal will evil intent.

Please, what do you think is mens rea? A 'mistake' is not a crime. The difference between manslaughter and homicide is mens rea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea

The mens rea is the Latin term for "guilty mind" used in the criminal law. The standard common law test of criminal liability is usually expressed in the Latin phrase, actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea, which means that "the act does not make a person guilty unless the mind is also guilty".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter

The law generally differentiates between levels of criminal culpability based on the mens rea, or state of mind. This is particularly true within the law of homicide, where murder requires either the intent to kill, a state of mind called malice or malice aforethought, which may involve an unintentional killing but with a willful disregard for life.

IANAL and neither is a cop.

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP KMA$$

 

[LEO 229]

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Doug Huffman wrote:

A crime is a crime done by honest people making a mistake or a criminal will evil intent.

Please, what do you think is mens rea? A 'mistake' is not a crime. The difference between manslaughter and homicide is mens rea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea

The mens rea is the Latin term for "guilty mind" used in the criminal law. The standard common law test of criminal liability is usually expressed in the Latin phrase, actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea, which means that "the act does not make a person guilty unless the mind is also guilty".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter

The law generally differentiates between levels of criminal culpability based on the mens rea, or state of mind. This is particularly true within the law of homicide, where murder requires either the intent to kill, a state of mind called malice or malice aforethought, which may involve an unintentional killing but with a willful disregard for life.

IANAL and neither is a cop.

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP KMA$$

It makes no difference....

If you did it and did not know.... you still broke the law.

EVERYONE could simply say "I did not know" and get away with a crime.

 

[TEX1N]

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thorsmitersaw wrote:

ah ok. I was totally clueless as to what suspended jail time is.


My lawyer is looking into if that is the case, that this cannot be extended as we had hoped, if it is then I will just deal with having a record the rest of my life in VA I guess, but if not then I will attempt to do the extending thing in appeals court in order to prevent having a record.

Your first step of appeal is to request a trial de novo, or a new trial. Basically you would do it over again in the General District Court. From there you could appeal to the VA Appellant Court.

Do you know the name of the case that the Judge referred to?