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Army Soldiers carrying concealed firearms

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,338
Location
Nevada
#41
...I still have my first amendment right, I can protest and speak out against something all day. I just can't associate the military or bring discredit upon the military while doing so.....
As soon as you said "I just can't," you proved my point. In no way did I imply you signed away a lot of rights. Just SOME. And before you go there, I also did not imply it was a bad thing.
 

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MagiK_SacK

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
257
Location
VA Beach, VA
#42
As soon as you said "I just can't," you proved my point. In no way did I imply you signed away a lot of rights. Just SOME. And before you go there, I also did not imply it was a bad thing.
That is easy enough to avoid. Stay out of uniform, and stay away from the words I'm in the 'military'. Avoid those two things and you are golden ;)
 

MagiK_SacK

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
257
Location
VA Beach, VA
#43
Actually, it specifically says that you don't have the same rights as you would with civilian employment. For someone who is suppose to pay attention to detail, you seem to only read and understand what you want to. Just because you don't want something to be true doesn't make it so.

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Please instead of telling me your interpretation please point to Section, paragraph number ext that you are interpreting that I won't have the same rights as I would with a civilian employment?
 

DamonK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
585
Location
Ft. Lewis, WA
#44
Please instead of telling me your interpretation please point to Section, paragraph number ext that you are interpreting that I won't have the same rights as I would with a civilian employment?
How about page 2, section 9. The entire section, but specifically paragraph 2.

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MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,338
Location
Nevada
#45
That is easy enough to avoid. Stay out of uniform, and stay away from the words I'm in the 'military'. Avoid those two things and you are golden ;)
That is true, BUT, if I wasn't in the military, I would not need to make certain of certain conditions before exercising a "right."
 

MagiK_SacK

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
257
Location
VA Beach, VA
#46
I don't know what point you are making here. So as not to be accused of ignoring it, could you please clarify it for us?
I guess what I'm getting at is as long as I don't associate my views/opinions with the military there shouldn't be a problem. The same, I am willing to bet, is the same with any other employer. As sad as it may sound if you were to go to a political rally wearing a work uniform you run the risk associating your views/opinions with your employer. That is something that most employer I would like to believe would like to avoid.

A similar but not exact example would be that woman that got fired for the picture she posted of herself throwing up the middle finger and acting like she was screaming next to the sign at the Arlington nation cemetery.

I don't know if that explains it or not. I guess I'm just trying to say its no different than any other employer. The military is just a little more liberal in enforcing such a rule. Hope that helps.
 

MagiK_SacK

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
257
Location
VA Beach, VA
#47
How about page 2, section 9. The entire section, but specifically paragraph 2.

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So just to be clear you are specifically referencing this paragraph:

"(2) Subject to separation during or at the end of my enlistment.
If my behavior fails to meet acceptable military standards, I may be
discharged and given a certificate for less than honorable service,
which may hurt my future job opportunities and my claim for
veteran's benefits."

Correct?
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,338
Location
Nevada
#48
I guess what I'm getting at is as long as I don't associate my views/opinions with the military there shouldn't be a problem. The same, I am willing to bet, is the same with any other employer. As sad as it may sound if you were to go to a political rally wearing a work uniform you run the risk associating your views/opinions with your employer. That is something that most employer I would like to believe would like to avoid.

A similar but not exact example would be that woman that got fired for the picture she posted of herself throwing up the middle finger and acting like she was screaming next to the sign at the Arlington nation cemetery.

I don't know if that explains it or not. I guess I'm just trying to say its no different than any other employer. The military is just a little more liberal in enforcing such a rule. Hope that helps.
Sorry, you quoted me before I figured it out and felt stupid and deleted it prior to your post.

I like your example. She had a right to do what she did, and the company had the right to fire her. They would not have had the right to throw her in the brig and deny her future freedom (or ANY kind of "discipline") because of it, though. That is a HUGE difference.
 

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DamonK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
585
Location
Ft. Lewis, WA
#49
So just to be clear you are specifically referencing this paragraph:

"(2) Subject to separation during or at the end of my enlistment.
If my behavior fails to meet acceptable military standards, I may be
discharged and given a certificate for less than honorable service,
which may hurt my future job opportunities and my claim for
veteran's benefits."

Correct?
Nope, nice try though. I'm talking about the entire section, not just the one excerpt. Maybe look at the paragraph directly above the one you quoted.

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MagiK_SacK

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
257
Location
VA Beach, VA
#50
Sorry, you quoted me before I figured it out and felt stupid and deleted it prior to your post.

I like your example. She had a right to do what she did, and the company had the right to fire her. They would not have had the right to throw her in the brig and deny her future freedom because of it, though. That is a HUGE difference.
I see your point. All I can really say to that is if that were to happen it would be a consequence of signing the DD form 4. By agreeing to enlist you agree to be subject to the UCMJ on top of Federal/State/Local laws and regulations. Are you guaranteed to end up in the brig, not necessarily, but that's not to say don't have a point.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,338
Location
Nevada
#51
...Are you guaranteed to end up in the brig, not necessarily, but that's not to say don't have a point.
Correct, in fact I edited my post again before you quoted it. ANY discipline would be proof that you did not have the "right" to do what you did. Firing (basically you just leaving) is not a discipline in this context.
 

1245A Defender

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,362
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
#52
Wowwie!!!

Please instead of telling me your interpretation please point to Section, paragraph number ext that you are interpreting that I won't have the same rights as I would with a civilian employment?
I wont cite anything for you.
There is a profound differance between being in the service and having a job as a civilian and there is a "right that you signed away"!

The RIGHT to tell your boss "Take this job and shove it! I dont work here anymore!"
 

golddigger14s

Activist Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,034
Location
Lawton, OK USA
#53
I was always kind of hoping a soldier would show up to some unit social function (off base of course) open carrying. The CG's policy never said anything about open carry, after all!

The only reason that USARAK changed the policy was because congress prohibited the DoD from implementing such policies during the NDAA last year. Don't think for a moment that the Army had a change of heart...
I did go to an off base unit function with an empty holster. Even though we were wearing civies, we were considered "on duty" at our designated place of duty. On duty, or in uniform on or off base we are not allowed to carry a personal weapon. In the last three years that I've been retired I have carried a loaded gun more than in the 21 years in the Army. (BTW, I was combat arms)
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
6,659
Location
here nc
#55
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