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Yet another child handcuffed and taken out of the school...cuz she formed a gun with her fingers...

solus

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A 12-year-old Overland Park girl formed a gun with her fingers, pointed at four of her Westridge Middle School classmates one at a time, and then turned the pretend weapon toward herself.

Police hauled her out of school in handcuffs, arrested her and charged the child with a felony for threatening.

Shawnee Mission school officials said they could not discuss the case, citing privacy laws, but did say it wasn’t the district that arrested the child.

A school resource officer, employed, by the Overland Park Police Department, would have handled the arrest, Smith said. The department said it could not discuss the case.

But according to Johnson County District Court documents, on Sept. 18, the girl “unlawfully and feloniously communicated a threat to commit violence, with the intent to place another, in fear, or with the intent to cause the evacuation, lock down or disruption in regular, ongoing activities …” or created just the risk of causing such fear.
https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article235891762.html

REALLY...

In Kansas, it's illegal for a juvenile to possess a firearm. Howe said, even in a school setting that is a misdemeanor, while a threat constitutes a more serious - criminal charge.

"It seems a little bit of an anomaly that you would think that having the actual gun that would be more serious charge, but in fact it's the actual threat," Howe said. "And it's something that maybe we need to look at with the legislature and reconcile that."

 
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Firearms Iinstuctor

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Well what is just important is what she was saying along with the finger pointing.

We have not been told that.

One could see where serious verbal threats along with finger pointing could get one arrested.
 

solus

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Well what is just important is what she was saying along with the finger pointing.

We have not been told that.

One could see where serious verbal threats along with finger pointing could get one arrested.
hummm... as noted in March 1862 edition of The Christian Recorder which at the time was a publication of the African Methodist Episcopal Church where this old adage was purportedly originally published:
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never break me.
The moment a ‘threat’ is a significant criminal act while actual possession of a firearm on school property is but a misdemeanor ~ there is [or at least should be] a problem!

To compound the issue that the perpetrator was a 12 yo is even more egregious!

It is inconsequential what was stated, but perhaps the motive is...was she acting out from frustration from the constant bullying, real or perceived...humm!

Sad part...the real crux is now gone and if bullied those perps won since their victim has been forced to leave her school environment and has a legend following them forever!
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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A lot of people complain when there are warnings signs and no action is taken.

Then the same people complain when action is taken.

The old dammed if you do dammed if you don't.
 

Ghost1958

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Well what is just important is what she was saying along with the finger pointing.

We have not been told that.

One could see where serious verbal threats along with finger pointing could get one arrested.
Really? A 12 yr old?

Never play cops and robbers as a kid at school?

Doesn't matter what she said , arresting a 12 yr old for making a finger gun is ridiculous.
We have become a nation with total idiots in places of authority.
 

Ghost1958

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A lot of people complain when there are warnings signs and no action is taken.

Then the same people complain when action is taken.

The old dammed if you do dammed if you don't.
Warning signs as determined by whom?

The people upset because action isn't taken depending on crystal balls and warning signs are as ignorant as the people who just arrested a 12 yr old for doing something 99.9 percent of adults did when they were 12.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Warning signs as determined by whom?

The people upset because action isn't taken depending on crystal balls and warning signs are as ignorant as the people who just arrested a 12 yr old for doing something 99.9 percent of adults did when they were 12.
Exactly.

We do not have the whole story on what the 12 year old said to go along with the gesture.

Saying bang bang while gesturing with ones finger while playing cops and robbers.

Is a bit different the saying I am going to go home and get a real gun and kill you while gesturing ones finger.

The truth is we do not know what the 12yoa said or how the 12yoa was acting at the time.
 

solus

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Sorry FI...even if we had the W H O L E transcript arresting and charging a 12yo for gesturing w/a finger gun is a ludicrous way for the RSO to react!

quote:
A person familiar with a more detailed incident report spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity. The person said that during a class discussion, another student asked the girl, if she could kill five people in the class, who would they be? In response, the girl allegedly pointed her finger pistol — like the ones many children use playing cops and robbers.

Because of that gesture, The Star was told, the girl was sent to Principal Jeremy McDonnell’s office, and the other students involved were also talked to. The school resource officer recommended that she be arrested, the source said. She was detained by police and later released to her mother. unquote
 

Ghost1958

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Children do and have murdered people.

If as stated then the whole situation was a over reaction.
Yes they have. And until they attempt to actually harm someone or harm someone, there is no arresstable, offence.

This situation and,those,like only under score how pitifully sheeplike some if not most officials and LEOs have become.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Attempted harm is what?

I know what it means do you

Have you ever had to act on the concept I have many times

Like the Florida school shooter and others they waited until they acted and the result was. You have all the information on him.

When would have you intervened and took away is rights.

And there was a lot of Monday morning quarter backing that they didn't act soon enough.

It can be a very fine line sometimes when one acts and when one doesn't. If you act to soon you trample on a lot of rights.

If you don't act until something happens, you can have lots of dead people.

I am very much in the more freedom column.

I am believe that a lot of these situations can be mitigated by proper response.

But then that is tempered by the fact that there are people who will not respond even thou they have the ability to.

For what ever reason.
 
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FreedomVA

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Attempted harm is what?

I know what it means do you

Have you ever had to act on the concept I have many times

Like the Florida school shooter and others they waited until they acted and the result was. You have all the information on him.

When would have you intervened and took away is rights.

And there was a lot of Monday morning quarter backing that they didn't act soon enough.

It can be a very fine line sometimes when one acts and when one doesn't. If you act to soon you trample on a lot of rights.

If you don't act until something happens, you can have lots of dead people.

I am very much in the more freedom column.

I am believe that a lot of these situations can be mitigated by proper response.

But then that is tempered by the fact that there are people who will not respond even thou they have the ability to.

For what ever reason.
School resource LE could've recommended a detention or suspension, why would a young child have to be put into the systems over something so minor.

LE now a days have the mentality of US vs THEM mentality and it's sad, really sad to see our country going Police State.

There is a difference from a true terror threats coming from a verified sources and there are innocent school kids monkeying around, if LEO can't distinguish the difference between the two, then i suggested going to find a different line of work.

It won't be long before LEO, shoot the kids first and ask questions later.

Stupid....


Here's some more stupidities....

 
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Firearms Iinstuctor

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School resource LE could've recommended a detention or suspension, why would a young child have to be put into the systems over something so minor.

LE now a days have the mentality of US vs THEM mentality and it's sad, really sad to see our country going Police State.

There is a difference from a true terror threats coming from a verified sources and there are innocent school kids monkeying around, if LEO can't distinguish the difference between the two, then i suggested going to find a different line of work.

It won't be long before LEO, shoot the kids first and ask questions later.

Stupid....


Here's some more stupidities....

Seems easy I guess you should show them how it is done.
 

FreedomVA

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Seems easy I guess you should show them how it is done.
Yes it is....repeat after me

"I recommend the youth to be suspended from school for a period of 3 days, inform her parents and allow them to discipline her and return to school with probation and supervisions."

and of course to discipline your kids now a days is considered "child abuse"
 
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solus

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snipp...

Like the Florida school shooter ... You have all the information on him.

When would have you intervened and took away is rights.

snippp..
Yes FI let's examine your example...

1. Cruz (Much of the information surrounding Cruz’s mental health and educational treatment is confidential under Florida and federal law)
a. [...it was determined that Cruz received extensive mental health treatment and school-based treatment from multiple providers. Over a nine-year period, Cruz regularly received hundreds of hours of therapy sessions from Henderson Behavioral Health. Moreover, Cruz also received additional educational services and behavioral care from multiple other providers for many years. To the knowledge of the
Commission, Cruz did not receive any treatment in the months immediately preceding the February 14, 2018, shooting.]

b. [Cruz had several different public and private mental health providers. There was some care coordination, but no master case management. No single health professional or entity had the entire “story” regarding Cruz’s mental health and family issues, due, in part, to an absence of communication between providers and a lack of disclosure by the Cruz family.

Cruz received extensive mental and behavioral health services until he turned 18 and decided himself to stop treatment.

Because of his decision to stop treatment, Cruz was not under the care of any mental health provider at the time of the shooting. Cruz’s last contact with HBH was more than one year before the shooting.]


2. Law enforcement
a. [Prior to February 14, 2018, BSO had a total of 43 contacts with the Cruz family. Of the 43 contacts, 21 involved Nikolas Cruz alone or both Nikolas and Zachary Cruz. Twenty-two of the incidents involved only Zachary Cruz. Of the 21 incidents involving Nikolas Cruz, most were minor and warranted no further law enforcement action. Two of the incidents warranted additional follow-up that was not conducted. Both deputies were found to have violated BSO policy and were disciplined. (after Parkland)

b. [The first tip was received on the FBI Public Access Line (PAL) on September 25, 2017, from Ben Bennight in Mississippi. Bennight, who was unknown to Cruz, reported a video on YouTube stating, “I’m going to be the next school shooter,” made by a user identified as
“nikolas cruz.” The information was forwarded to the Mississippi FBI office for follow up and the tipster was interviewed. However, it was determined there was not enough information available to positively identify the poster of the video and the tip was closed on October 11, 2017. Efforts to serve legal process on YouTube or Google that could have potentially identified the poster were not made.]

c. [The second call to the FBI PAL was placed on January 5, 2018, by a friend of the Cruz family, Mary Hamel. Hamel had become increasingly concerned about postings Cruz was making on Instagram and feared he would actually follow through on threats to harm
others by perpetrating a school shooting. During the thirteen-minute phone call, Hamel provided details of Cruz’s gun purchases, animal mutilations, escalating temper and Cruz’s Instagram usernames. The name, address and phone number for the Snead family was also provided, which was the residence where Cruz was residing at the time due to the death of his mother. After some initial searches by the call-taker, the tip was closed out after it was labeled as having no lead value. It is not clear at this time exactly why the lead was labeled as having no value and closed without being forwarded to a local FBI office for further evaluation.]

(The FBI declined to make a formal presentation of explanation)​
d. BSO
1. BSO deputies had some level of knowledge and familiarity with their active shooter policy. Several of them referenced that their policy states that they “may” enter a building or structure to engage an active shooter.

2. Sheriff Israel inserted the word “may” in the BSO policy, and it is insufficient and fails to unequivocally convey the expectation that deputies are expected to immediately enter an active assailant scene where gunfire is active and to neutralize the threat. The use of the word “may” in BSO policy is inconsistent with current and standard law enforcement practices.

3. Some deputies could not remember the last time they attended active shooter training.

4. Some deputies could not recall what type of active assailant training they received.

e. CSPD

1. CSPD officers had a high level of knowledge and familiarity with their active shooter policy. Many reference that the policy states they “shall” engage the threat.

2. All CSPD officers remembered their active shooter training because they attended the training on an annual basis. Many of the officers praised the quality of their training and the equipment that they are provided.
3. School system:
a. [...the District failed was when it provided Cruz erroneous information concerning his options for services at MSDHS. The onus was on the District to seek a court determination if it wanted to force Cruz to attend an alternate school. Due to this misinformation, Cruz remained at MSDHS until February 2017 when he transferred to an adult learning center. Cruz subsequently sought to return to high school and to reengage ESE services, but the District failed to implement the necessary processes that would have returned Cruz to high school. Cruz remained in the adult learning center environment without ESE services until the shooting.]

b. [Several staff who had an opportunity to call a Code Red (after seeing Cruz w/firearm walking outside on school grounds) failed to do so, and there is no evidence to support the claims of other staff members that they called a Code Red]

c. [Poor communication — not a technical problem — left police trying to track the Parkland school shooter on video surveillance when he had already left the building, “communication failure” led police to believe they were tracking the shooter in real time, when in fact they were seeing footage from 20 minutes earlier, the Coral Springs police chief said.

Police searching for Nikolas Cruz desperately needed to know where he was at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High, as students cowered behind locked doors. But their colleagues looking at security monitors in another building fed them wrong information because they didn’t realize — or didn’t convey — that they were watching a recording rather than a live feed, Chief Tony Pustizzi said.] https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/...oting-coral-springs-video-20180222-story.html

ya...sheriff fired by FL Gov; RSO who retired, fired, lost pensiion and jailed; two other deputies fired...oh school administrators...nada done to them!

You are absolutely right...threats should be responded to but with the right citizen safe guards [due process if you will] in place ...but in this unbelievable tragic comedy of errors by FBI, FL's MH system, Sheriff's office, or the Parkland School they weren't nor were they in the Aurora theater incident where the college psychologist failed to report, nor in the TX church shooting by the USAF.

All these incidents are a tragic comedy of errors where someone after the fact states ~ OPPS!

unless otherwise noted cite for majority of references stated: http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/MSDHS/CommissionReport.pdf
 
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Firearms Iinstuctor

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Yes it is....repeat after me

"I recommend the youth to be suspended from school for a period of 3 days, inform her parents and allow them to discipline her and return to school with probation and supervisions."

and of course to discipline your kids now a days is considered "child abuse"
So were are you in a position to make this happen.

So why didn't you.
 
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