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Why didn't someone carrying in that Texas Wal-Mart interviene to stop that mass shooting?

solus

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Actually when the civil war ended [1865 - 1870] the majority of the States changed their individual constitutions and statutes instituting what have been called collectively “Jim crow” based on the period Negro slave ‘folk trickster’ epitomized by Thomas Rice.
 

solus

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my recollection while I lived in Houston in the late 60s & very early 70s for several years was TX law biding citizen’s carrying of a firearm was prolific and not chastised by other citizens nor pursued/prosecuted by LEs ~ nothing was said!

the opening of the galleria was quite an event as was Gilley’s of Urban Cowboy fame.
 
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My concern about confronting such a shooter with my 9mm pistol is that when Police arrive, they'll see me holding a weapon and shoot me!

My natural inclination of course is to go into battle mode and take out the perp. I would even with such a small gun be a serious threat to any shooter.

I would be unlikely to cause collateral damage, but I fear that many who carry guns would not be as skillful and would likely end up shooting innocent people.

This is not an easy question...
 

color of law

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My concern about confronting such a shooter with my 9mm pistol is that when Police arrive, they'll see me holding a weapon and shoot me!

My natural inclination of course is to go into battle mode and take out the perp. I would even with such a small gun be a serious threat to any shooter.

I would be unlikely to cause collateral damage, but I fear that many who carry guns would not be as skillful and would likely end up shooting innocent people.

This is not an easy question...
Based on your unconfident position should you be carrying a gun?
 
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Based on your unconfident position should you be carrying a gun?
My only lack of confidence is that the Police will think I'm the perp and shoot me.

I'm quite confident in the use of a gun, and therefore am likely more justified in carrying one than are many people waving guns around who are likely to shoot an innocent person.

Like an automobile, a gun should be used by people who KNOW how to use it.

Rest assured that if such a shooting took place in my proximity, I WOULD respond and attempt to take out the shooter. I am simply expressing a concern regarding the possible negative outcomes of that action. We should be devising means to avoid such problems rather than ignoring them.
 

solus

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My only lack of confidence is that the Police will think I'm the perp and shoot me.

I'm quite confident in the use of a gun, and therefore am likely more justified in carrying one than are many people waving guns around who are likely to shoot an innocent person.

Like an automobile, a gun should be used by people who KNOW how to use it.

Rest assured that if such a shooting took place in my proximity, I WOULD respond and attempt to take out the shooter. I am simply expressing a concern regarding the possible negative outcomes of that action. We should be devising means to avoid such problems rather than ignoring them.
your bravado is noted...however,
2014 in a LV Walmart a citizen CCW who was there when a bad guy walked in shot in the air so they approached from behind gun drawn who didn’t see the bad guy’s partner behind them...partner shot Good Samaritan who died at the scene.
a. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/09/wilcox-vegas-shooting-hate/10261163/
b. https://forum.opencarry.org/index.php?threads/ccw-holder-killed-in-the-las-vegas-shooting.122514/

stick around review threads while notice the judicious discretions others have espoused for their stated reason, e.g., legal, personal, financial, etc. make conversation & join in the discussions...
 
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your bravado is noted...however,
2014 in a LV Walmart a citizen CCW who was there when a bad guy walked in shot in the air so they approached from behind gun drawn who didn’t see the bad guy’s partner behind them...partner shot Good Samaritan who died at the scene.
a. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/09/wilcox-vegas-shooting-hate/10261163/
b. https://forum.opencarry.org/index.php?threads/ccw-holder-killed-in-the-las-vegas-shooting.122514/

stick around review threads while notice the judicious discretions others have espoused for their stated reason, e.g., legal, personal, financial, etc. make conversation & join in the discussions...
I won't even claim to have bravado... I discovered that in such a situation I sort of go into auto-pilot mode. Once some people shot at my house, and within seconds I had the lights out, was outside with a rifle and stalking them through the bushes. I surprised myself as I've never been in the military yet I turned into a "good soldier" automatically. I guess my brain is just wired that way. Fortunately they realized what I was doing, probably because they noticed that the lights had gone off, and suddenly jumped into a car and took off.

I'm so sorry about what happened in LV, as you relate. Yes, one has to be very aware in those situations, very careful, always watch your back. I hope if suddenly I'm in such a circumstance I perform well. I'm the sort who will jump in and try to help, it's my nature.
 

solus

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I won't even claim to have bravado... I discovered that in such a situation I sort of go into auto-pilot mode. Once some people shot at my house, and within seconds I had the lights out, was outside with a rifle and stalking them through the bushes. I surprised myself as I've never been in the military yet I turned into a "good soldier" automatically. I guess my brain is just wired that way. Fortunately they realized what I was doing, probably because they noticed that the lights had gone off, and suddenly jumped into a car and took off.

I'm so sorry about what happened in LV, as you relate. Yes, one has to be very aware in those situations, very careful, always watch your back. I hope if suddenly I'm in such a circumstance I perform well. I'm the sort who will jump in and try to help, it's my nature.
alas barrow, if you, in the situation you presented above, were to wound, maim, or kill those you stalked you very easily could have found yourself in serious judicial trouble or worse yet, your nightmare come true ~ killed by responding LE!

folk have been arrested for giving the illusion of finger gun or being seen handling their firearm in their vehicle.

cavalier jumping i situationally might not be the bestest judicious modus operandi to pursue if you wish to remain above judicial oversight or maintain personal safety!

[as one discerns if one is appropriately trained by service or LE
 
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alas barrow, if you, in the situation you presented above, were to wound, maim, or kill those you stalked you very easily could have found yourself in serious judicial trouble or worse yet, your nightmare come true ~ killed by responding LE!

folk have been arrested for giving the illusion of finger gun or being seen handling their firearm in their vehicle.

cavalier jumping i situationally might not be the bestest judicious modus operandi to pursue if you wish to remain above judicial oversight or maintain personal safety!

[as one discerns if one is appropriately trained by service or LE
Yep unfortunately you're right. However, this was in NM, so if I'd shot someone who was on my property and shooting, I'd likely get away with it. LE? Naw... they'd have taken a long time to respond as this was out in the country. Fortunately I scared the shooters off and didn't have to find out.

I encountered another problem in another spot in NM, where helping a friend to mend a fence on his ranch, an extremely violent and psychotic neighbor fired 3 shots in the air, then came over threatening and behaving like the lunatic he always is, but he's a Police informer so whenever we tell the cops things he's done, they ignore it. Frankly if not for that, we'd likely have shot him already, but as it is, regardless of the provocation, the cops would likely arrest us... yeah, LE is not always behaving rationally and in support of peoples' rights, that's a sad fact.
 

Ghost1958

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Nov 5, 2015
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Kentucky
My only lack of confidence is that the Police will think I'm the perp and shoot me.

I'm quite confident in the use of a gun, and therefore am likely more justified in carrying one than are many people waving guns around who are likely to shoot an innocent person.

Like an automobile, a gun should be used by people who KNOW how to use it.

Rest assured that if such a shooting took place in my proximity, I WOULD respond and attempt to take out the shooter. I am simply expressing a concern regarding the possible negative outcomes of that action. We should be devising means to avoid such problems rather than ignoring them.
Exactly how can an armed citizen make an active shooter mowing down innocents any worse? Dead is dead my friend. The difference if an armed citizen attempts to stop the shooter and hits an innocent in the process is the shooter is being stopped, or at min attention diverted and lives being saved vs doing nothing and many more lives lost for sure.
What your trying to "solve" ie friendly fire has never been able to be solved by armies, LE.

If your only concern going up against a active shooter with a rifle using a Shield or similar pistol is being shot by cops, you might consider giving the situation more thought. Cops, who wont be entering anyway until the shooting stops , will be the least of your worries.
 

wabbit

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briar patch, NM
Yep unfortunately you're right. However, this was in NM, so if I'd shot someone who was on my property and shooting, I'd likely get away with it. LE? Naw... they'd have taken a long time to respond as this was out in the country. Fortunately I scared the shooters off and didn't have to find out.

I encountered another problem in another spot in NM, where helping a friend to mend a fence on his ranch, an extremely violent and psychotic neighbor fired 3 shots in the air, then came over threatening and behaving like the lunatic he always is, but he's a Police informer so whenever we tell the cops things he's done, they ignore it. Frankly if not for that, we'd likely have shot him already, but as it is, regardless of the provocation, the cops would likely arrest us... yeah, LE is not always behaving rationally and in support of peoples' rights, that's a sad fact.
Barros you just publically stated you would like to do serious bodily harm to a NM citizen based on your perceived questionable affiliation with law enforcement as well as your impression of their perceived mental health and yet you state the “LE is not always behaving rationally...” as you just described doing a premeditated violent crime? Hopefully no accident befalls the neighbor you posted about In the near future!

As for your posted statement of going into a dead force stalking mode w/rifle to hunt trespassers seems like it is yet another public statement of premeditated wishing to inflict serious bodily harm on another individual...

Barros you might consider that if you were ever in a SD event, these two public statements of violence against neighbors, could be used against you by any prosecutor, no matter if you’re tried in VA, WVA, or NM!
 
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Exactly how can an armed citizen make an active shooter mowing down innocents any worse? Dead is dead my friend. The difference if an armed citizen attempts to stop the shooter and hits an innocent in the process is the shooter is being stopped, or at min attention diverted and lives being saved vs doing nothing and many more lives lost for sure.
What your trying to "solve" ie friendly fire has never been able to be solved by armies, LE.

If your only concern going up against a active shooter with a rifle using a Shield or similar pistol is being shot by cops, you might consider giving the situation more thought. Cops, who wont be entering anyway until the shooting stops , will be the least of your worries.
Yes I think that is how I'd be thinking if this occurred... that I have to stop the shooter. That is the most urgent priority. Once the shooter(s) is/are neutralized, I'd put the gun down. Yes, it is analogous to the dilemma faced by the military.
 

solus

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Yes I think that is how I'd be thinking if this occurred... that I have to stop the shooter. That is the most urgent priority. Once the shooter(s) is/are neutralized, I'd put the gun down. Yes, it is analogous to the dilemma faced by the military.
no Barros, your perception is not analogous to anything faced by the U.S. Armed Services...[2248L EST 14 nov removed inadvertent STRIKE through by solus]
 
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no Barros, your perception is not analogous to anything faced by the U.S. Armed Services...
Indeed it is, as I was speaking of the problem of collateral damage. That is precisely what is faced by all armies. Some don't care. The Israelis are notable for making great efforts to avoid collateral damage, as they're doing now in yet another conflict in Gaza.

That is the same problem mentioned in here, that one always risks shooting innocent people when trying to take on a mass shooter.

That doesn't mean that I said that everything that happened in the Walmart in El Paso was analogous to what the military faces.

The issue of collateral damage is all I was addressing. And everyone should think about that very seriously before attempting to jump in and be the "good guy with a gun". We're truly good guys when we're skilled, careful, and conscious of what we're doing.
 

solus

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Indeed it is, as I was speaking of the problem of collateral damage. That is precisely what is faced by all armies. Some don't care. The Israelis are notable for making great efforts to avoid collateral damage, as they're doing now in yet another conflict in Gaza.

That is the same problem mentioned in here, that one always risks shooting innocent people when trying to take on a mass shooter.

That doesn't mean that I said that everything that happened in the Walmart in El Paso was analogous to what the military faces.

The issue of collateral damage is all I was addressing. And everyone should think about that very seriously before attempting to jump in and be the "good guy with a gun". We're truly good guys when we're skilled, careful, and conscious of what we're doing.
mean what you say and say what you mean ~ your constant backpedaling is fascinating tho...
 
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mean what you say and say what you mean ~ your constant backpedaling is fascinating tho...
I backpedaled not at all. My original statement was regarding collateral damage.

I have to conclude that you dogmatists simply haven't the intelligence to engage any issue except with your stock cliches.

If you post lies as you just did, of what use are you to any discussion about policy or politics?

What I'm sensing here is a lot of fear. I ask a reasonable question and y'all run for cover.

Can't think for yourselves?

I stated clearly my thinking about what to do when encountering a mass shooting, as the "good guy with a gun". I said I would likely engage the perp, though I raised concerns regarding the LE response and about potential collateral damage. Yet I'm attacked by such as you unable to think, only to retrench and insult.

You're a pathetic comment on the state of our nation today, full of so many people who are terminally angry yet unable to engage any issue with intellect. This raises grave concerns about the future of MY country. I'm not sure it's your's anymore, as you've abandoned the basic principles which require discussion, democracy, elections, peaceful resolution of disagreements.

Try reading the rest of the Constitution, not only the 2nd Amendment, for a change. You'll find that if you wish to affect gun policies, you have to participate, not stand off to the side flinging feces and hoarding ammunition.
 

solus

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Yes I think that is how I'd be thinking if this occurred... that I have to stop the shooter. That is the most urgent priority. Once the shooter(s) is/are neutralized, I'd put the gun down. Yes, it is analogous to the dilemma faced by the military.
I backpedaled not at all. My original statement was regarding collateral damage.

I have to conclude that you [1] dogmatists simply haven't the intelligence to engage any issue except with your stock cliches.

[2] If you post lies as you just did, of what use are you to any discussion about policy or politics?

What I'm sensing here is a lot of fear. I ask a reasonable question and y'all run for cover.

[3] Can't think for yourselves?

I stated clearly my thinking about what to do when encountering a mass shooting, as the "good guy with a gun". I said I would likely engage the perp, though I raised concerns regarding the LE response and about potential collateral damage. Yet I'm attacked by such as you unable to think, only to retrench and insult.

[4] You're a pathetic comment on the state of our nation today, full of so many people who are terminally angry yet unable to engage any issue with intellect. This raises grave concerns about the future of MY country. I'm not sure it's your's anymore, as you've abandoned the basic principles which require discussion, democracy, elections, peaceful resolution of disagreements.

Try reading the rest of the Constitution, not only the 2nd Amendment, for a change. You'll find that if you wish to affect gun policies, you have to participate, [5] not stand off to the side flinging feces and hoarding ammunition.
hummm barros....seems in your initial post your final sentence was, how did you word it,
Yes, it is analogous to the dilemma faced by the military.
Then you "stated" you meant:
My original statement was regarding collateral damage.

whew barros, i'm sure glad i didn't mis-speak when i made my comment towards you about "mean what ya say & say what ya mean!"

oh and your civility is almost bordering on elementary school potty mouth 🤢 oh wait a sec...number 5 crossed the line...yepper certifiable school grade potty mouth language...

so for reasonable discourse about reading the WHOLE constitution...hummm let me check sumthing...yepper still on the premier open carry firearm site in the nation where the only thing that concerns me is the interpretation of the only amendment of the constitution concerning itself with firearms which is the 2nd amendment.

as for your stated grandiosity bravado of stalking a trespasser or wanting to kill a police informant neighbour or how you are going to jump into any fracas involving a public shooting event and protect life is nothing more than just further BS bravado which i filed under "W" for who cares!

soooo barros...any other reasonable discourse you wish to engage in...cuz you haven't yet!
 
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hummm barros....seems in your initial post your final sentence was, how did you word it,
Yes, it is analogous to the dilemma faced by the military.
Then you "stated" you meant:
My original statement was regarding collateral damage.

whew barros, i'm sure glad i didn't mis-speak when i made my comment towards you about "mean what ya say & say what ya mean!"

oh and your civility is almost bordering on elementary school potty mouth 🤢 oh wait a sec...number 5 crossed the line...yepper certifiable school grade potty mouth language...

so for reasonable discourse about reading the WHOLE constitution...hummm let me check sumthing...yepper still on the premier open carry firearm site in the nation where the only thing that concerns me is the interpretation of the only amendment of the constitution concerning itself with firearms which is the 2nd amendment.

as for your stated grandiosity bravado of stalking a trespasser or wanting to kill a police informant neighbour or how you are going to jump into any fracas involving a public shooting event and protect life is nothing more than just further BS bravado which i filed under "W" for who cares!

soooo barros...any other reasonable discourse you wish to engage in...cuz you haven't yet!
Since you misrepresent everything I say, why should I bother to respond? I was interested in shooting that fellow because he was shooting at us and threatening to kill us and anyone who was our friend!

You don't seem to want to address the issue at all, only attack anyone who isn't in lockstep with your cultish dogma.

Oh, is that potty mouth? If I point out that you're a liar, which is clearly the case, is that immature?

I was expressing no bravado, as I said I would feel obligated to be the "good guy with a gun". I have no desire that I be presented with that necessity. I'm certainly not hoping to be involved in any gunfight. But then, why are any of you carrying firearms? For self-defense, I'm sure you claim, though I suspect many of you are hoarding guns in anticipation of exterminating Democrats, Muslims, immigrants, gays, etc.

I'm not going to bother with your silliness. Try posting something of substance or leave me out of it.
 
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