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What kind of firearm training do Police go through?

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Marty Hayes

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Euromutt wrote:
Do bear in mind that the Firearms Academy of Seattle (actually located near Onalaska) dedicates more of its time and resources (including the talents of Marty Hayes, and Massad Ayoob when he's visiting) to training LEOs (and/or those who instruct LEOs) than it does to training private citizens. When it comes to firearms training, Washington state cops are probably a damn sight better than most.
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Not sure where this came from, but wanted to correct. At FAS, we in fact train more private citizens than cops.

Morris, do you have the WAC for the once a year firearms training requirement?

Marty
 
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Crackajack

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In my agency, there are 8 range sessions per year. 2 per quarter. We are mandated to attend at least one per quarter to keep up our certification.

We do a lot more than the simple line shoots of days past. Recently we had weak hand drawing, loading, firing, reloading, etc... we've had shooting from a car, shooting under stress, shooting small fastmoving objects (to simulate a charging dog), low light shooting, etc... I think this month we are going to focus on close quarter combat.
 
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Euromutt

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Marty Hayes wrote:
Not sure where this came from, but wanted to correct. At FAS, we in fact train more private citizens than cops.
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My apologies; I guess I read more than was warranted into some comments Massad Ayoob made in one of his columns regarding your degree of involvement with WSLEFIA, Mr. Hayes.
 
just_a_car

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Crackajack, I just now realized (though, probably should have from some of your other posts) that you're LEO and I'm 99% sure with which department, but I'll keep that to myself.

That said, I've been remiss in adding your name in thanking you, having your opinion here along with Morris, JL, and 911Boss (whom I also just realized was LEO or support services... waiting on reply for that). You folks not only bring a different angle and/or opinion to our discussions but also somewhat legitamize what I'll simply call "our movement"... in that, it's not just a bunch of 'wack-job' civilians; yano?

Either way... thanks for your continued posting. Hope to hear more from ya! :)
 
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Misguided Child

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Can anyone tell me how much Handgun Retention training police officers go through initially and if any as continuing ed.? Having been through a class yesterday, I realize I need a LOT more practice to even start to be good at it. But there was a discussion outside of class about liability if my gun was taken while OC'ing. The question considered was did I take "reasonable" precautions against having that gun taken while I was in public.
 
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Crackajack

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just_a_car wrote:
Crackajack, I just now realized (though, probably should have from some of your other posts) that you're LEO and I'm 99% sure with which department, but I'll keep that to myself.
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Not Olympia, if that was your guess :)
 
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Crackajack

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Misguided Child wrote:
Can anyone tell me how much Handgun Retention training police officers go through initially and if any as continuing ed.? Having been through a class yesterday, I realize I need a LOT more practice to even start to be good at it. But there was a discussion outside of class about liability if my gun was taken while OC'ing. The question considered was did I take "reasonable" precautions against having that gun taken while I was in public.
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We do it from time to time. In the academy it was part of Defensive Tactics on how to avoid different gungrabs (such as from in front, from behind, on the ground, etc...)

We will train on it every once in a while at a roll call training just to stay fresh.
 
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Morris

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We do it in conjunction with our twice yearly DT sessions. DT guy on my squad so we sometimes discuss and work though issues.

More general carry folks should get the training as well, especially with level 1 holsters (even the serpa). Of those I have quiried over the last two years, I think only two have taken it as part of a regular training program (as as offered by FAS or Insights).
 
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Misguided Child

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Thanks, I think I will be upgrading my holster shortly. I wanted a level 3 just because I ride the bike and wanted the gun to stay with me. I took one gun out of it's holster from the front yesterday by popping the thumb break. Acouple different release mechanisms seem like a good idea
 
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Morris

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(diverting off topic here)

The key is to get a good retention holster that will retain in the event of running, falls or quick grabs but still allow for you to quickly and effectively drawfrom a holster. Many officers with level 3/triple whammy bells and whistles holsters do not practice drawing from them so we get lots of wedgies as they jerk up and promply hike their duty belts to the nipple line, still not able to draw out the pistol.

The Serpa is a good intermediate holster as it retains well but allows for a good draw. It's only drawback is that a competent fighter COULD press the paddle and get the release going. But at that point, you can expect you are in a fight for life and you had better have a knife out to cut and slash or start your fighting skills and defensive tactics.

You can find courses for training like this from good schools liek FAS and Insights, usually groundfighting or defensive fighting courses.
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

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Crackajack wrote:
just_a_car wrote:
Crackajack, I just now realized (though, probably should have from some of your other posts) that you're LEO and I'm 99% sure with which department, but I'll keep that to myself.
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Not Olympia, if that was your guess :)
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Indeed it was. That's why I left myself a 1% chance of being wrong... nobody's perfect. ;)

No worries, the better to keep your anonymity with and prevent anything here from coming down on you from your superiors.
 
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Marty Hayes

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Morris wrote:
Marty,

I'm on my normal days off so I'll dig it up when I get back. I know it was thrown around by my management to justify against our argument that folks needed to qualify at least twice yearly in order to beat liability concerns.
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Morris:

A reminder I would still like this WAC. I did a WAC search and couldn't come up with it.

Marty
 
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Morris

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Thanks for the reminder Marty. When I get a chance tonight, I'll see what I can dig up.

Okay, while sitting security at a house, had a chance to go through the WAC as best as I could. You are right Marty, I'm not seeing it. However, the closest I can see is the state requirement that officers receive at least 24 hours of training per year to maintain certification. I'll still keep looking and may see what WASPC says.
 
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Marty Hayes

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Morris wrote:
Thanks for the reminder Marty. When I get a chance tonight, I'll see what I can dig up.

Okay, while sitting security at a house, had a chance to go through the WAC as best as I could. You are right Marty, I'm not seeing it. However, the closest I can see is the state requirement that officers receive at least 24 hours of training per year to maintain certification. I'll still keep looking and may see what WASPC says.
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The only thing I have ever seen is a requriement by the Association of Washington Cities, (insurance carrier for many small departments) requiring yearly qualifications. This is of course, inadequate to meet the USSC requirements, but I guess until they suffer a huge loss, they won't get the hint.

The problem is, if AWC required more training, then the agencies would simply switch to other insurance carriers who do not, because it is expensive to actually train their officers.
 
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Morris

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More checking and yes, AWC makes that requirements. I wish we qualified 4 times a year but then we would never have any live fire training. There has to be a balance between qualifications and training and with more and more agencies cutting training in lieu of in-house BS stuff (to meet that 24 hours), I don't see that getting better.

I am aware that there has been pushes in the past for mandated by law qualifications by segments of WASPC fought against it for cost reasons.

Sure gets expensive quick when the training and qualifications come to a legal scrutiny in court or civil lawsuits.
 
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