URGENT*** Need Statues

[CDT COX]

After following this ongoing saga since the start, this my take.
It's really not so "URGENT", is it? You might as well admit that you don't plan to go any further with it and let this topic die.

??? It was urgent, then I came back to school which is 2.5 hrs from my home so it became less urgent. I will continue to pursue this matter. I've been to the to Sheriffs office three times, and the district court once. Your take is wrong, but nice try tough guy.

 

[CDT COX]

I've said this about way too many times. CALL THE DAMN ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, SPEAK TO A LAW ENFORCEMENT LIAISON AND TELL THEM THE PROBLEM. THEY WILL CALL THE SHERIFF AND INFORM THAT THEY CANNOT DENY THE PERMIT IN THIS SITUATION DUE TO YOUR AGE.

It's really not that difficult. Hotrod and myself have both completed the process.

CALL THEM

919-716-6400

Called today, spoke with Assistant Attorney General Joy Strickland. I told her I was denied for being 18 and without skipping a beat, asked for my email to send me this .pdf stating that it is perfectly legal. Glad she knew what was up! I'm gonna go home tomorrow and re-apply with this new info in hand. If the Sheriff doesn't see that it is legal, she told me to call her office back.

 

[elixin77]

If the Sheriff doesn't see that it is legal, she told me to call her office back.

He'll be in a bit of a pickle at that point, methinks.

See? sometimes it helps biting the bullet (haha?) and calling the AG's office. They may actually be able to help sometimes.

 

[CDT COX]

He'll be in a bit of a pickle at that point, methinks.

See? sometimes it helps biting the bullet (haha?) and calling the AG's office. They may actually be able to help sometimes.

+1

I'll update tomorrow afternoon after I leave the County Complex, hopefully I'll have the permit!

 

[edrolee]

i hate to say this but i'd put my money on you having to make another call to the AG's office, even with a Judge as a reference this sheriff refused you before, some piece of paper isn't likely to change his mind

unless he orders you to leave after rejecting you i would make that call back to the AG's office right there on the spot right in front of him

no matter what you do this sheriff could cause trouble for you b/c you caused trouble for him..... i would still call the AG and i would offer the information to his opponent in his next election if he does cause problems

 

[TFred]

i hate to say this but i'd put my money on you having to make another call to the AG's office, even with a Judge as a reference this sheriff refused you before, some piece of paper isn't likely to change his mind

unless he orders you to leave after rejecting you i would make that call back to the AG's office right there on the spot right in front of him

no matter what you do this sheriff could cause trouble for you b/c you caused trouble for him..... i would still call the AG and i would offer the information to his opponent in his next election if he does cause problems

Classic scenario, as it plays out in my head:

Sheriff: "You're not getting a permit, go away!"
You: Dial phone. Ring, ring. "Yes, this is me... from the other day... Sheriff said go away".
Slight pause, as you listen.
You, to Sheriff, holding out cell phone: "It's for you."



TFred

 

[CDT COX]

Just got back. I went in and the women clerk that is on my side since the OP was working. The Sheriff wasn't there or his henchman that caused the problems the first time. The clerk asked how she could help me, I said I'm here to apply for a PPP. She said okay, handed me the form, then copied my license. I filled out the form and gave it to her and she said you should have it within 5 to 10 days and she'll call me when it's ready. Hopefully this means I'm good to go but I suspect I'll get a call from the Sheriff within the next few days.

 

[CDT COX]

Classic scenario, as it plays out in my head:

Sheriff: "You're not getting a permit, go away!"
You: Dial phone. Ring, ring. "Yes, this is me... from the other day... Sheriff said go away".
Slight pause, as you listen.
You, to Sheriff, holding out cell phone: "It's for you."



TFred

I was hoping this would play out! Unfortunatly he wasn't there today

 

[()pen(arry]

I heartily endorse your belief in the rule of law. All the more reason not to give automatic respect to law enforcement. They, more than any other member of society, are best equipped and positioned to abrogate it.

This right here is why anyone who respects the rule of law should not have a default positive view of cops, because they clearly do not respect the rule of law. This is outright illegal behavior intended to intimidate and silence those who would hold police accountable for their actions, and has absolutely no place in a free society. Clearly, we do not live in a free society.

Before anyone claims that one incident doesn't make a generalization, this type of behavior is ubiquitous. Moreover, in order for this raid to be possible, there has to be collusion on the part of the entirety of law enforcement in that county, from the judge to the DA to the chief to the individual cops who participated. Furthermore, there has to be implicit collusion from cops who didn't participate who have to look the other way, at best, or, more probably, simply agree with what was done. Finally, every time there is an allegation of police misconduct, the entire police community rises up vehemently to defend the offender, and even when it is impossible for the LEO community to get the offender acquitted, this kind of crap happens.

I don't dislike cops. I just dislike bad cops, and every cop who looks the other way is a bad cop, plain and simple.

 

[CDT COX]

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: Hear back in 5-10 days my ass. I got tired of waiting on a phone call from the Sheriff that I knew wouldn't come so I called his office today. The Sheriff told me he wouldn't issue one to me unless I had a court order making him. I asked If he would like to see the information given to me by an Assistant AG in the LE Liaison Office and he told me no because he called the AG office and they said it was illegal. BS! He told me to go to District Court and only then will he do it. I’m not sure how all that works because when I tried to find out the clerk at the DC didn’t even know how. I set an appointment to talk to an attorney Friday to figure out how to appeal in district court. Then I want to sue the Sheriff for the $100 filing fee for District Court, legal costs, and denial of civil rights if I can. I tried to do this nicely; all I wanted was to legally receive a Christmas gift from my dad, but if the Sheriff wants to play hard ball, I’m in it to win it.

 

[elixin77]

Didn't the lady at the AG office say to call her back immediately if he won't do anything about the permit? I'd not only be calling around for lawyers, I'd do my damndest to make sure he gets forcibly removed from office, by having the AG himself breathing down his neck

 

[sultan62]

I'd call back the AAG. Hopefully by now you've got the sense to have some sort of evidence: witnesses, audio recording, paper denials from the SD, something. Give it to the AAG, and if you don't have any of that, at least write up your experiences ahead of time in a coherent, detailed fashion.

 

[edrolee]

seriously, i'm not one to advocate making the people pay for an idiot BUT this sheriff is going to have to learn by losing not only the county a BUTT LOAD of money but hopefuly loosing his job and never being employed in LE in NC again

find a lawyer and get him to work on a 35% of winnings basis and sue for every dime you can

if your lucky the sheriff will be an ass and the county will have to pay you enough you'll never have to work a day in your life

more than likely the county will want to settle as quickly as possible for as little money as possible

IMHO the one thing i would require to settle out of court is the sheriff out on his ass in disgrace

 

[elixin77]

Preferably, you do not settle.

If you end up settling, its pretty much you signing a piece of paper saying "we'll give you this much money, if you **** about anything and everything that happened. Here's a check for an outrageous amount of money" They may not even give you a permit.

Now, if you go through the legal system, and actually get a judge to rubberstamp the issue (either yay or nay) that that creates precedent, and on top of that, you can get even more money (and the judge may have them cover your lawyer's fees on top of that).

 

[sultan62]

I still don't think this should go to court until you have contacted the AG to contact the SD again.

 

[calynn]

Cox,

Keep us informed. I'm interested.

 

[SigP229]

Appeal

Maybe the Sheriff will mess up in his written statement, regardless I believe that I will prevail as prescribed my the bolded. Facts: I'll pass the required background check(not even a speeding ticket on my record), I'm of good moral standing (ARMY ROTC Cadet, Eagle Scout, multiple mission trips). Law: The law states I need the permit to receive the handgun(No mention of age anywhere in the Statutes, unless you are a minor). Reasonableness of refusal: Although I'm old enough to vote, defend the Constitution of The US, have contracted with the DoD, and it is lawful, he refuses because of my age?

In your appeal, remember: only the facts. What was said by either party will not be presumed from a silent record. Facts: (1) You applied; (2) you don't have a permit; and (3) the law supports your position.

He can try to justify his reasons all day long, but if it's not on paper, it's inadmissible hearsay. You may also consider a Petition for Writ of Mandamus (an original action to force someone to perform a statutory duty). Best of luck!

 

[CDT COX]

Update:

I talked to an attorney yesterday. I showed her everything I had including the supporting statutes, denied application, and the info the AAG gave me, then I asked her about how to appeal to the Chief District Court judge since the clerk at the court house couldn’t give me an answer. She told me to call the AAG back and get her to call the Sheriff. If that didn’t work, write a letter to the Chief Judge explaining how I was denied solely on my age and that I need the permit because I’m using the handgun for defense of the home. In the letter include copies of NCGS 14-404, my denied app, the AAG’s info and the documents the AAG sent me. If the Chief District Court Judge denies me, she gave me info to one of her friends that works for the NC ACLU.

 

[sultan62]

I wouldn't hold my breath on the ACLU picking this one up, so you're gonna need to handle it yourself.

 

[TFred]

I wouldn't hold my breath on the ACLU picking this one up, so you're gonna need to handle it yourself.

There actually have been a few cases where the ACLU took a position to defend someone's 2nd amendment rights. Surprising, and probably not a national trend... but there are a few.

ETA: Of course this case shouldn't have to come to that... this guy is clearly violating the law, this is not a matter of facts that need to be determined, it's a matter of forcing the guy to do his job.

TFred