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Trying to come up with a list of OC/CC, CPL/noCPL requirements

Q

qqq1

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Saginaw, Michigan, USA
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My goal is to build a list or chart that shows where you cant OC, where you cant CC, and where you require a CPL for OC/CC. I had asked about this before and got some information, so I plugged that data in. I need info on schools/colleges, government building like post office, parks/playgrounds, and whatever else you might know about. What about a place with a "no weapons" or "no guns" sign? Is that no guns period even if CPL/CC?


This is my general idea...



I do not have CPL, I want to CC
------------------------------------------
-No where is legal.
(What about inside your home? Or outside, on your own property?)




I do not have CPL, I want to OC
-------------------------------------------
-A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
-A church or other house of religious worship.
-A court.
-A theater.
-A sports arena.
-A day care center.
-A hospital.
-An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act.
*Any place with a liquor license (bar/store/restaurant/clubhouse, anywhere that can sell or serve)
-In vehicle. (*Can transport in case, locked away/out of reach, unloaded, must not be accessible)




I have a CPL, I want to CC
--------------------------------------
Where can you NOT CC even with a CPL?

-A church or other house of religious worship.
-A court.
-A sports arena.
-A day care center.
-A hospital.
-An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act that makes the majority of its income from the sale of liquor in an open container. (such as a bar, or even a restaurant that happens to sell a lot of drinks. NOT a store that only sells packaged liquor)



I have a CPL, I want to OC
---------------------------------------
Where can you NOT OC even with a CPL?

-A court.



Required OC, CC not allowed -still requires CPL
--------------------------------------------------------------
Where MUST you OC as CC is not allowed?

-A church or other house of religious worship.
-A sports arena.
-A day care center.
-A hospital.
-An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act that makes the majority of its income from the sale of liquor in an open container. (such as a bar, or even a restaurant that happens to sell a lot of drinks. NOT a store that only sells packaged liquor)




I thought this would be a good idea. I have not taken a CPL class yet, and despite being a relatively smart guy my brain turns to mush when I try to read law. This chart is to help me and everyone else from messing up with all these crackpot rules. Help me out if you think it's a good idea. If you think it's not worth it... I guess the post will just get berried. Thanks.
 
WARCHILD

WARCHILD

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I must have missed your first post on this. It's a good idea for a quick reference guide to multiple situations. I'll see if I can work up a spread sheet for it and go from there.
 
T

T Vance

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A list like this is a GREAT idea. Kind of cuts through everything and gets right to business.

Don't forget Federal property is off limits.
 
WARCHILD

WARCHILD

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I just about have it done. Should I post it in pdf format for easier download? Also if I have made any errors or need to add some info, let me know so I can change it. I don't know why we never thought of this before.....can't see the forest for the trees I guess. :uhoh:
 
K

kevron2020

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Zoo, Michigan, USA
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You CAN CC in a church or other house of worship IF you have permission from the person able to give permission. (some churches its pastor, others is deacon. Don't know about other religions)


Edit To Add: That is CPL of course
 
Venator

Venator

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As mentioned you need to provide the permission exemptions for both OC and of couurse CC with a licence if providing security for any of the non-CC places.

And of course you can CC on your own property.
 
Q

qqq1

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Location
Saginaw, Michigan, USA
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WARCHILD wrote:
Look it over and let me know. I have to leave for a while, I'll check back in later.
Click to expand...
There needs to be a distinction on places with a liquor license. You CAN CPL CC in walmart, grocery store, or even liquor store that sells nothing but alcohol because sales are not by the open glass. You CAN NOT CC and MUST OC in a place that makes the majority of its money from open glass alcohol (a bar or restaurant that sells lots of drinks and not much food). Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, with the Y or N listing way you have it, the same places should be listed under each heading and in the same order. Otherwise it looks great, thanks a bunch.


Oh, as for places where you CAN OC or CC if you get permission, they should be listed as No by default because normally you cant... you have to get special permission first.
 
WARCHILD

WARCHILD

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I didn't list those as a specific permission exemption. I wanted to keep it plain and simple for the novice to understand. Those who are in security know their own special circumstances while armed.

Any further corrections before I update and re-post the file?
 
Q

qqq1

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Location
Saginaw, Michigan, USA
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WARCHILD wrote:
I didn't list those as a specific permission exemption. I wanted to keep it plain and simple for the novice to understand. Those who are in security know their own special circumstances while armed.

Any further corrections before I update and re-post the file?
Click to expand...
I mentioned a couple things just above your post and now thought of a couple more.

Any info on colleges?

You said NO on all federal properties but I thought you could do something in federal parks. Different for state parks? What about the local playground/nature walk area?

A qustion on theater/arena. NO CC period, and only CPL OC if capacity is under 2500? No carry at all if over 2500?

A place with a "no weapons" sign, like a mall usually will have. No carry period? The bay city mall has stores selling swords and a dunhams with guns, but you cant carry?
 
Venator

Venator

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As you can see from reading these post the issue is not simple and is why MOC, Inc. hasn't created this type of document...too many exemption, exceptions, and nuance's to answer with a yes or no.

That doesn't mean not to try. If someone comes up with a concise and accurate document MOC, Inc would be happy to use it.;):D
 
Q

qqq1

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
80
Location
Saginaw, Michigan, USA
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WARCHILD wrote:
Ok, here you go....if I keep adding any more, we will have a book. I tried to keep it short and simple.

Updated chart..........
Click to expand...

It's looking great. The "Y" is in the wrong column for CC W/CPL church with permission.

Also under CC W/CPL and OC W/CPL the liquor licensed place still needs to be clarified. Maybe it should be listed with 2 subcategories...

CC W/CPL
Any establishment licensed by the Mich liquor act
-Majority of income from open glass liquor sales "N"
-Majority of income from any other sales "Y"

OC W/CPL
Any establishment licensed by the Mich liquor act
-Majority of income from open glass liquor sales "Y"
-Majority of income from any other sales "Y"

I know you're trying to keep it to one page but the liquor stuff is important. I accidentally carried where I wasn't allowed a couple times and could have gotten in big trouble.
 
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