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Transferring ownership

Kwbrown297

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
2
My father passed away 2 years ago from a motorcycle accident and he had a few guns registered in his name and I was wondering what I needed to do in order to get the guns put in my name.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,618
Location
here nc
My father passed away 2 years ago from a motorcycle accident and he had a few guns registered in his name and I was wondering what I needed to do in order to get the guns put in my name.
welcome and with the standard caveats...i'm not a lawyer...but...

a question: i presume you are of age, < 21 handguns; > 18 long guns & NAF equipment; nor not considered a prohibited person, e.g. DV convicted, habitual substance user, felon? if not read on...

1. were your late father's possessions disposed of per his instructions thru his will ~ to you?
a. if so, you are now the legal owner!
b. if not, you need to discuss obtaining ownership with the new owner!

2. since you didn't state where you are in NC nor type of firearms, e.g. handguns/longguns/fully auto, a bit of history...
a. at one time in the recent past, several NC cities had "registration" mandates on their communities's citizens, but the state legislature overturned any registration criteria across the state for "normal" hand/long guns.
b. now there is no mandated registration for "normal" hand/long firearms so if entitled to them no biggie!
c. that stated, if your father had obtained automatic or any firearms qualified as NAF by the ATF, [see below] and didn't have them in a 'trust' you need an attorney. if your father had you listed as a trustee on his NAF firearm i still recommend you consult with an attorney to update your NAF trust.

bottom line, with the exception of NAF categories, there is no firearm registration mandates in the TARHEEL state.
now once you have possession, assure they are unloaded then take them to a gunsmith to assure they are servicable

hopes this helps but send a pm if you need further clarification...

Which firearms are regulated under the NFA?
(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e);
(6) a machinegun;
(7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and
(8) a destructive device.
[26 U.S.C. 5845; 27 CFR 479.11]

 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
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Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,237
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
There is no such thing as guns being registered in NC. Under federal law bequest/bequest are exempt from any transfer. And I'm using the term "transfer" loosely. If your dad intended for the guns to go to you upon his death then they are yours. Nothing more to do.
 

Kwbrown297

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
2
welcome and with the standard caveats...i'm not a lawyer...but...

a question: i presume you are of age, < 21 handguns; > 18 long guns & NAF equipment; nor not considered a prohibited person, e.g. DV convicted, habitual substance user, felon? if not read on...

1. were your late father's possessions disposed of per his instructions thru his will ~ to you?
a. if so, you are now the legal owner!
b. if not, you need to discuss obtaining ownership with the new owner!

2. since you didn't state where you are in NC nor type of firearms, e.g. handguns/longguns/fully auto, a bit of history...
a. at one time in the recent past, several NC cities had "registration" mandates on their communities's citizens, but the state legislature overturned any registration criteria across the state for "normal" hand/long guns.
b. now there is no mandated registration for "normal" hand/long firearms so if entitled to them no biggie!
c. that stated, if your father had obtained automatic or any firearms qualified as NAF by the ATF, [see below] and didn't have them in a 'trust' you need an attorney. if your father had you listed as a trustee on his NAF firearm i still recommend you consult with an attorney to update your NAF trust.

bottom line, with the exception of NAF categories, there is no firearm registration mandates in the TARHEEL state.
now once you have possession, assure they are unloaded then take them to a gunsmith to assure they are servicable

hopes this helps but send a pm if you need further clarification...

Which firearms are regulated under the NFA?
(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e);
(6) a machinegun;
(7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and
(8) a destructive device.
[26 U.S.C. 5845; 27 CFR 479.11]

I am from Elkin, NC which is in surry county and my father didn’t have any active will when he died so everything went to my mom. She was able to get things of his put in her name such as his truck but we were not sure what the status of his handguns would be. I turned 22 a few days ago and I’ve been wanting to get a concealed carry permit and use one of his guns rather than buying one so I figured I needed to put the guns in my name first before I start carrying them.
 

color of law

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Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,237
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I am from Elkin, NC which is in surry county and my father didn’t have any active will when he died so everything went to my mom. She was able to get things of his put in her name such as his truck but we were not sure what the status of his handguns would be. I turned 22 a few days ago and I’ve been wanting to get a concealed carry permit and use one of his guns rather than buying one so I figured I needed to put the guns in my name first before I start carrying them.
The guns by law go to your mom. She is free to gift them to you. Son, here, I love you so much I giving you these guns. Perfectly legal under state and federal law. Those guns are yours. Now to be on the safe side have your mom give you a letter listing the guns she gave you. Put the letter in a safe place.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,618
Location
here nc
Thanks for the prompt update...nope as they say...carry on...
1. your mother may 'gift' you one of "HER" handguns [again presuming you are not a prohibited person!]
2. you may, without benefit of spending $$$ to get training nor applying for a NC CHP Privilege card from the county sheriff Open Carry in the TARHEEL state.
3. This stated...I HIGHLY recommend taking the 8+ hour CHP course from someone who is not a LE so you have the background of where you can and cannot carry and when and when you can't use deadly force in the state of NC. For example, pointing a firearm, loaded or not, at someone is a violation of NC statutes and so forth; further, NC does not have a citizen arrest provision, and so forth.

this provides you the appropriate knowledge to go forth...if unfamiliar with the firearm...seek out the NRA's first pistol class consisting of 4 hours of handling and familiarization [shooting] with your new firearm.

as stated...pm if you want further details.

to expand on what CoL stated...i would certainly have mom give you a letter stating she is 'giving' you a hand gun by S/N to preclude any possible falling out in the future and which will mitigate any recriminations that 'you stole' the firearm! [yes it truly happens!]
 

bc.cruiser

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
767
Location
Fayetteville NC
The folks above almost got it right. For you to get possession (lawfully) of handguns, you must first obtain the Pistol Purchase Permit. Present that to your mom, and she presents you with the guns. Done. see NCGS 14-402 (a)

The PPP allows one handgun per permit. see NCGS 14-403. The single transfer was added in 2015. Permits are shall issue, cost $5 each, good for 5 yrs. I don't know about Surry county, but my county allows 5 PPPs to be obtained at one time. Sheriff's website www.surrysheriff.org/pistol_permit.php

You do not need to 'own' a firearm to carry (OC or CC ) or to use it. NC has not yet gone down the universal background check path. There is no provision in our laws for any LEO to demand proof of ownership.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,618
Location
here nc
The folks above almost got it right. For you to get possession (lawfully) of handguns, you must first obtain the Pistol Purchase Permit. Present that to your mom, and she presents you with the guns. Done. see NCGS 14-402 (a)

The PPP allows one handgun per permit. see NCGS 14-403. The single transfer was added in 2015. Permits are shall issue, cost $5 each, good for 5 yrs. I don't know about Surry county, but my county allows 5 PPPs to be obtained at one time. Sheriff's website www.surrysheriff.org/pistol_permit.php

You do not need to 'own' a firearm to carry (OC or CC ) or to use it. NC has not yet gone down the universal background check path. There is no provision in our laws for any LEO to demand proof of ownership.
i'm sorry kwbrown297, i meant for you to have your mother loan you one of her handguns for your use.

btw bc.cruiser, where does the NC statutes state the private person selling, giving away, or transferring a handgun mandates this individual receives from and keeps from the receiver their PPP or even a copy of the NC privilege card ~ CHP?

further, bc.crusier, not to quibble, but 14-403 unequivocally states the sheriff's issued PPP must read, quote
Therefore, a permit is issued to ________ to purchase one pistol from any person, firm or corporation authorized to dispose of the same. unquote https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_52A.html

humm, seems there is a confusion on the spirit and intent between 14-402 & 14-403...huh!
 

color of law

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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Per bc.cruiser the Sheriff application link is titled: "APPLICATION FOR PERMIT(S) TO PURCHASE A HANDGUN."

The first sentence of the application says: "I, the undersigned applicant, hereby make application for a North Carolina Permit(s) to Purchase a Handgun and state that the following information is correct to the best of my knowledge."

"Section 14-402. Sale of certain weapons without permit forbidden.
(a) It is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation in this State to sell, give away, or transfer, or to purchase or receive, at any place within this State from any other place within or without the State any pistol unless:"

The plain reading of the law is dealing with license dealers. The sheriff's application bears this out. And, there is no case law addressing section 14-402.

There is nothing in federal law or state law that regulates the gifting of a firearm to an immediate adult family member, felon being an exception.
 

bc.cruiser

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
767
Location
Fayetteville NC
i'm sorry kwbrown297, i meant for you to have your mother loan you one of her handguns for your use.

Intent noted and appreciated.

btw bc.cruiser, where does the NC statutes state the private person selling, giving away, or transferring a handgun mandates this individual receives from and keeps from the receiver their PPP or even a copy of the NC privilege card ~ CHP?

Nowhere. Nothing I posted made this assertion.

further, bc.crusier, not to quibble, but 14-403 unequivocally states the sheriff's issued PPP must read, quote
Therefore, a permit is issued to ________ to purchase one pistol from any person, firm or corporation authorized to dispose of the same. unquote https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_52A.html

Nice catch. Maybe we should sue. We are required to have a PPP to obtain a handgun, yet the wording requires us to pay for the gun.

humm, seems there is a confusion on the spirit and intent between 14-402 & 14-403...huh!
Quite possibly due to the 4 years between the revision of one and the other. And not making the connection with the phrase of purchasing one handgun.
 

bbMurphy

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
82
Location
Springfield, VA
I may be a little dense here but since 14-402/14-403 refer to the purchase of a handgun, wouldn't his mother gifting them to him make these 2 statutes moot?
 

bc.cruiser

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
767
Location
Fayetteville NC
I may be a little dense here but since 14-402/14-403 refer to the purchase of a handgun, wouldn't his mother gifting them to him make these 2 statutes moot?
CoL advises there is no case law for this. I won't be that case. 14-402 is pretty clear: § 14-402. Sale of certain weapons without permit forbidden. (a) It is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation in this State to sell, give away, or transfer, or to purchase or receive, at any place within this State from any other place within or without the State any pistol unless: (i) a license or permit is first obtained under this Article by the purchaser or receiver from the sheriff of the county in which the purchaser or receiver resides;

I agree with Solus on the ambiguity of the wording of the permit given in -403. I have my own way of handling a like circumstance, but that is just me.
 

color of law

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Statutes dealing with the same subject are to be interpreted together, as though they were one law. In other words, each Section of “Article 52A” must be read in conjunction with all the sections to understand the entire intent of the Article.

According to Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter “statutes cannot be read intelligently if the eye is closed to considerations evidenced in affiliated statutes.”

With that said, to understand Section 14-402 you must read Article 52A in total. Now read Section 14-406(a): “Every dealer in pistols and other weapons mentioned in this Article shall keep an accurate record of all sales thereof, including the name, place of residence, date of sale, etc., of each person, firm, or corporation to whom or which such sales are made. The records maintained by a dealer pursuant to this section are confidential and are not a public record under G.S. 132-1; provided, however, that the dealer shall make the records available upon request to all State and local law enforcement agencies.”

Since the terms “person, firm, or corporation” are not defined in this Article, then who are those persons, firms, or corporations? Section 14-406(a) tells us who they are; Dealers in pistols and other weapons.

Since North Carolina’s constitution, Section 30, say in part: “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed;” means that the state lacks authority to interfere with private persons private business. Telling me as a private person I'm required to have the permission of the state to dispose of my private property would be a violation of my rights.

Heller specifically stated, “Second Amendment implicitly recognizes the pre-existence of the right and declares only that it ‘shall not be infringed.” The Court reiterated, “Our opinion is, that any law, State or Federal, is repugnant to the Constitution, and void, which contravenes this right, originally belonging to our forefathers.”

I don’t live in NC, and I never will.
 
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