Sprouts Farmers Market

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

I also OC/CC at Frys, I've never had a problem and at one point I have thanked a Manager who in return has thanked me for carrying. :monkey:banana:

Since Rusty has given me different anti/pro gun biz cards I now will make sure to use them should the need arise. As bad as it may sound I can't wait to give my first anti-gun card to a Manager of a store which prohibits carry, I hope then they may understand that money has just walked out of their establishment.

I just moved here from Wisconsin and almost exclusively open carry. I have no issues in Basha's or any other grocery store. I haven't visited my local Sprouts as of yet but with this feedback, I probably won't.

My gun stays with my wallet, so if it isn't welcome, my money is not either.

 

[FreeInAZ]

I just moved here from Wisconsin and almost exclusively open carry. I have no issues in Basha's or any other grocery store. I haven't visited my local Sprouts as of yet but with this feedback, I probably won't.

My gun stays with my wallet, so if it isn't welcome, my money is not either.

Welcome Paul!

You probably know this but just in case - signs DO have legal weight here in AZ. So watch for posted places (often on sticky note sized transparent backed window decals with subtle (near invisible) lettering.

Oh and another place to avoid is "Safeway" (oxymoron). Why? They sponsor the police "buy backs" here in AZ often. That and they are ridiculously overpriced too. [emoji14]

A great resource for those new to AZ (gun law):
http://www.gunlaws.com/agog.htm

And the best pro rights group in AZ. IMHO.

http://www.azcdl.org/

 

[The Trickster]

You probably know this but just in case - signs DO have legal weight here in AZ.

To my knowledge, the only area in which gun buster signs are referenced in ARS is concerning businesses which serve alcohol for on-site consumption [4-229] and as such, there are some fairly specific requirements as to the size, shape, location, etc. of the signs in order for them to be in regulatory compliance. All other gun buster signs posted on private property do not have any weight of law. No where in ARS are they recognized with legal power/authority, nor is there any case law that I've ever seen whereby someone was arrested and/or charged simply because (s)he ignored or claimed ignorance of a sign. It simply becomes a trespassing crime if a carrier is asked to leave and refuses to do so, especially if done directly to law enforcement.

If I am incorrect, I'd be happy to have my ignorance corrected with case law and/or ARS citations accordingly.

Thanks.

 

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

To my knowledge, the only area in which gun buster signs are referenced in ARS is concerning businesses which serve alcohol for on-site consumption [4-229] and as such, there are some fairly specific requirements as to the size, shape, location, etc. of the signs in order for them to be in regulatory compliance. All other gun buster signs posted on private property do not have any weight of law. No where in ARS are they recognized with legal power/authority, nor is there any case law that I've ever seen whereby someone was arrested and/or charged simply because (s)he ignored or claimed ignorance of a sign. It simply becomes a trespassing crime if a carrier is asked to leave and refuses to do so, especially if done directly to law enforcement.

If I am incorrect, I'd be happy to have my ignorance corrected with case law and/or ARS citations accordingly.

Thanks.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/arizona.pdf says:

Do “No Gun Signs” Have the Force of Law? “YES”Arizona does not require any specific wording, size, location or format for No Firearms signs whichprohibit the carrying of a firearm on private property. The only requirement is that the signs provide aReasonable Notice that firearms are prohibited. They do not need a sign if the property owner has someoneat the door giving notice to those who enter. If you enter a property that does not have signs and the owneror person in charge of the property ask you to remove the firearm you have to or you can be charged withtrespassing. www.handgunlaw.us 9Arizona does have wording in their law concerning the posting of Places that Serve Alcohol andspecifications for that posting. See 4-229. However a place that serves alcohol can post any type of no gunsign they wish and they have met the letter of the law and 4-229 penalties can be applied.Failure to obey a properly posted sign or the verbal instructions of the property owner or those who representthen could result in you being charged with Criminal Trespass.You can enter an establishment that serves alcohol if it is not posted. Those carrying under Permitless Carrywithout any permit/license from any state can’t carry into any establishment that serves alcohol whether it isposted or not.

So.... it reads to me that me ignoring or 'not seeing' a sign at Sprouts is not the trigger, me ignoring being told to leave or being informed of the sign and not leaving would.

If I see a sign, I won't go in.

 

[FreeInAZ]

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/arizona.pdf says:




So.... it reads to me that me ignoring or 'not seeing' a sign at Sprouts is not the trigger, me ignoring being told to leave or being informed of the sign and not leaving would.

If I see a sign, I won't go in.

Yes, you got it.

To Trickster - you being a long time poster here & AZ resident for a good while now, you might want to brush up on your AZ gun law knowledge. No snark intended. I just don't want you getting hassled by the po po unnecessarily.

You can get a electronic version of the Arizona Gun Owners Guide for less than $10(see link above).

When I got here in 2012, I read it from front to back cover & found it to be well worth the money. Updates are free after purchasing.

 

[The Trickster]

This topic gets brought up every so often here in the Arizona thread and when it does, I ask those who claim that signs have the weight of law to reference ARS or case law to support their claim. Unfortunately, no one ever can accommodate my requests and the reason being is because they are wrong and no evidence exists to support such frivolous nonsense. Nor can they recollect any mere rumors or gossip of a single instance when someone was arrested for ignoring or genuinely not seeing a sign. One would think that without the ability to provide evidence, folks would come to the conclusion that I'm probably right, but they don't. Regardless, no where in Arizona Revised Statutes can a law be found which makes it a crime to carry a gun onto property which has a sign posted, except for the aforementioned liquor statute and other specific areas which are specified in Title 13. That's because on private property, it is a trespassing issue which, even then, after reading the trespassing laws in ARS, no where do I see anything about gun buster signs. With that established, here's what will happen if you OC in a private business which does not serve alcohol for on-site consumption, has a posted sign or signs, and the workers/owners/etc. take issue with it:

1. They will approach you and tell you to leave or come back without the gun, or they will simply just call the police. (If the latter, skip to 3.)

2. You refuse to comply with their request(s) and they call the police.

3. The police arrive and tell you that you need to vacate the premises or they will arrest you for trespassing if you don't.

4. You refuse to comply with their request(s) and they arrest you, but not for anything to do with misconduct involving weapons.

Hell, many times LE won't even arrest you unless the business is willing to press charges and if they say they will and change their mind, the charges will get dropped.

And that link which was provided with information about the 4-229 sign requirements is also incorrect. A simple review of the statute lists many particular specifications which must be met in order for the sign to be compliant with the statute. Feel free to look it up yourself if you don't believe me as ARS is readily accessible online.

 

[The Trickster]

To Trickster - you being a long time poster here & AZ resident for a good while now, you might want to brush up on your AZ gun law knowledge.

Would you be willing to assist me in such an endeavor by taking me on as an apprentice to your vast and purported/implied knowledge about AZ gun laws, all of which you've amassed in the whopping four years you've live in this state?

 

[FreeInAZ]

Way to troll sir, I forgot why this site has gone down the crapper. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[The Trickster]

Way to troll sir, I forgot why this site has gone down the crapper. Thanks for reminding me.

I should have followed up my response to your hubristic, infantilizing, and incorrect implication that I'm an ignorant fool who needs to be brushed up on the gun laws in my state by stating that no snark was intended.

 

[recalcitrant]

Of course they hate guns. They love tofu.

 

[Grapeshot]

Of course they hate guns. They love tofu.

What's not to love? They are the Shmoon of today.

For those young’uns among us, here is the history of ShmooKind, or, more correctly, Shmoon.