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Rules in Alabama - Knocking on Neighbor's door

bocraw

New member
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
2
Location
United States
I have this unfortunate ******* match going on with my neighbor's involving their dogs. For those who like to read, here is the summary.

The bottom line is my neighbors will be looking to retaliate over anything, no matter how petty. So I want to watch my Ps and Qs with my gun and do everything strictly by the book. I just read an excellent post about the Hoover Police Department, and that puts some of my concerns at ease.

I guess I should disclose that I've never owned a pistol, until now. I did obtain a concealed carry permit. And I hope I never have to fire the gun again. (I fired it at the shooting range to make sure I can safely operate.)

My understanding is that while I am on my property, I can basically carry my guns when I want and how I want. What about my neighbor's property? Can I knock on his door and ask if he is available to talk? Does it matter if the gun is concealed or not? It looks like according to 13A-11-52, it is okay to do this both concealed and open if I have a permit.

Damn, this stuff is complicated! Someone simplify it for me please.
 

fox2102

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
21
Location
mt. olive, Alabama, USA
Considering the history you have with the neighbor I would go concealed. An open gun on his property might just cause more headache for you in the future. Always remember though. If asked to leave do so immediately.

As far as never having to shoot the gun again I hope you don't mean never. You should be shooting at least ever few months at the very least. I cannot stress this enough but if you have the money get some training. Training can be the difference between life and death.
 

Kopis

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
674
Location
Nashville, TN
I guess I should disclose that I've never owned a pistol, until now. I did obtain a concealed carry permit. And I hope I never have to fire the gun again. (I fired it at the shooting range to make sure I can safely operate.)



Damn, this stuff is complicated! Someone simplify it for me please.


I want to address these two lines in your first post. I believe being a responsible firearm owner/carrier requires you to train and practice regularly. I would think once a month would be ok, once a quarter at worst. You should be proficient in drawing the weapon from your holster, acquiring your target and keeping rounds on target. I like to go with a friend and get the target with different shapes, colors and numbers. My friend can then call out "yellows" or 1, 4 or squares. This way it keeps your mind working while shooting. You should also practice reloading from a spare mag in case the weapon jams while under duress.

Secondly, you're right, it is complicated sometimes. I think a lot of us wish it was simpler (2A is pretty clear i would think) but it's not. You are carrying the ability to respond with deadly force. That is a big responsibility so please continue to read up and ask questions. There is a lot of good advice here.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,177
Location
here nc
Dear OP, sorry that is not a summary of events as you outlined in the forum and after reading your published manifesto and your responses to comments, outlining your veiled threat(s), real or perceived, to your neighbour and his partner, i would like to recommend and highly suggest you get rid of your firearm as soon as practical and ensure you have stacks of documentation showing where and how you got rid of it.

sorry, BO but you have no business with any type of lethal object anywhere near you let alone a firearm which you state publicly on this forum you have no idea how to use the firearm, or the basic considerations how and where you can carry, as well as publicly state on this forum, you want to carry the firearm onto your neghbour's property which i can only presume is to be used for intimidation purposes when you next confront your neighbour at his door.

(BTW i do not care if you crouch carrying the firearm for protection from the dogs or not, you are trying to intimidate especially when you leave a position of safety (your property) and go to your neighbour's property where there are 'dangerous creatures' which could be released on you.)

additionally, no where do you state you called the police and animal control or filed a complaint.

bottom line, and i do not say this lightly, sorry BO, reading your manifesto coupled with the posts here, leads me to believe you are not mature enough to have and handle a firearm for the purposes it was intended and this situation will bring significant trauma and turmoil into your life, especially more than what you are currently experiencing.

ipse

addendum: before jumping into my case, i ask you please completely read the OP's published manifest of the situation
 
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HPmatt

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
1,464
Location
Dallas
OP you need to get out of there and move forward. Focusing on getting even will chew you up and destroy your life if you let it. Agree w#5.
 

XD40sc

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
402
Location
NC
OP you need to get out of there and move forward. Focusing on getting even will chew you up and destroy your life if you let it. Agree w#5.

Yea, I'm going to second this suggestion also. Sounds like the OP is on the path to living elsewhere, be it by his choice where he moves to, or as a guest of the AL DOC.
 

49er

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2008
Messages
156
Location
Central Alabama
I’m here to support your right to bear arms for defense, not to intimidate you for doing so. I live in Alabama, by the way, unlike some of those who have jumped on you for no good reason.

Section 2 of the following opinion of the Alabama Supreme Court refers to a statute that is now codified as Section 13A-11-52 in the Code of Alabama 1975 to which you refer. Recently, the Alabama Court of Criminal Appeals confirmed that there was no punishment defined in our state code for a violation of Section 13A-11-52 before it was amended during the 2013 regular session of the legislature. The Court upheld a conviction of the defendant relying on a municipal ordinance in Jacksonville, AL to define a punishment for a violation of the municipal ordinance that adopted 13A-11-52 into the city code. The amended version of the statute in 2013 still failed to define a punishment for violation of the amended statute.

Notice that the Alabama Supreme Court stated that the statute applies to carrying a pistol onto the property of another for OFFENSIVE purposes. Our Declaration of Rights affords no protection for bearing arms for OFFENSIVE purposes. Section 4 of the act was repealed and no longer appears in our Code:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

“Said section [***3] 2 is not violative of section 26 of the Bill of Rights, as it merely prevents the carrying of arms for offensive purposes, and does not deprive a person of the right to bear arms in defense of himself or the state. Moreover, section 4 of the act authorizes the defendant to give in evidence the fact that he had good reason to apprehend an attack, either in mitigation of the fine or in justification of the offense.”

Isaiah v. The State.
[NO NUMBER IN ORIGINAL]
SUPREME COURT OF ALABAMA
176 Ala. 27; 58 So. 53; 1911 Ala. LEXIS 401
June 30, 1911, Decided

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


There is a recent decision involving a charge of menacing that you may be interested in as well. The Supreme Court of Alabama ruled in EX PARTE PATE, Ala: Supreme Court 2013 that “…Pate's getting the gun, without more, was not sufficient to establish the physical-action element of menacing”.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_c...332&q=pate+menacing+firearm&hl=en&as_sdt=4,64
 

49er

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2008
Messages
156
Location
Central Alabama
I want to address these two lines in your first post. I believe being a responsible firearm owner/carrier requires you to train and practice regularly. I would think once a month would be ok, once a quarter at worst. You should be proficient in drawing the weapon from your holster, acquiring your target and keeping rounds on target. I like to go with a friend and get the target with different shapes, colors and numbers. My friend can then call out "yellows" or 1, 4 or squares. This way it keeps your mind working while shooting. You should also practice reloading from a spare mag in case the weapon jams while under duress.

Secondly, you're right, it is complicated sometimes. I think a lot of us wish it was simpler (2A is pretty clear i would think) but it's not. You are carrying the ability to respond with deadly force. That is a big responsibility so please continue to read up and ask questions. There is a lot of good advice here.


No 1: The poster went to the range to make sure he could use his firearm safely. Our Declaration of Rights requires none of the personal preferences for training that you advocate before bearing arms for defense of self and state.

No. 2. We are discussing Alabama law. Alabama has a Declaration of Rights that excepts everything in our Declaration of Rights out of the general powers of government unlike Arkansas and the states that touch the borders of Alabama. Our legislature was created by our state's constitution, not by the federal constitution to which you refer. While the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution of the United States affords protection of our right to keep and bear arms for defense, our state's constitution provides even more protection.


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

“State courts cannot rest when they have afforded their citizens the
full protections of the federal Constitution. State constitutions, too,
are a font of individual liberties, their protections often extending
beyond those required by the Supreme Court's interpretations of
federal law. The legal revolution which has brought federal law to
the fore must not be allowed to inhibit the independent protective
force of state law-for without it, the full realization of our liberties
cannot be guaranteed.”

Justice Brennan of the United States Supreme Court
Brennan, State Constitutions and the Protection oj Individual Rights, 90 HARv. L. REv.
489, 491 (1977).


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
 

49er

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2008
Messages
156
Location
Central Alabama
Dear OP, sorry that is not a summary of events as you outlined in the forum and after reading your published manifesto and your responses to comments, outlining your veiled threat(s), real or perceived, to your neighbour and his partner, i would like to recommend and highly suggest you get rid of your firearm as soon as practical and ensure you have stacks of documentation showing where and how you got rid of it.

sorry, BO but you have no business with any type of lethal object anywhere near you let alone a firearm which you state publicly on this forum you have no idea how to use the firearm, or the basic considerations how and where you can carry, as well as publicly state on this forum, you want to carry the firearm onto your neghbour's property which i can only presume is to be used for intimidation purposes when you next confront your neighbour at his door.

(BTW i do not care if you crouch carrying the firearm for protection from the dogs or not, you are trying to intimidate especially when you leave a position of safety (your property) and go to your neighbour's property where there are 'dangerous creatures' which could be released on you.)

additionally, no where do you state you called the police and animal control or filed a complaint.

bottom line, and i do not say this lightly, sorry BO, reading your manifesto coupled with the posts here, leads me to believe you are not mature enough to have and handle a firearm for the purposes it was intended and this situation will bring significant trauma and turmoil into your life, especially more than what you are currently experiencing.

ipse

addendum: before jumping into my case, i ask you please completely read the OP's published manifest of the situation


First, your addendum: I read the original post. Obviously, you must not have. I saw no "veiled threats" or any "manifesto".

Second: This site is pro gun rights. What are you doing here?
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,193
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Dear OP, sorry that is not a summary of events as you outlined in the forum and after reading your published manifesto and your responses to comments, outlining your veiled threat(s), real or perceived, to your neighbour and his partner, i would like to recommend and highly suggest you get rid of your firearm as soon as practical and ensure you have stacks of documentation showing where and how you got rid of it.

sorry, BO but you have no business with any type of lethal object anywhere near you let alone a firearm which you state publicly on this forum you have no idea how to use the firearm, or the basic considerations how and where you can carry, as well as publicly state on this forum, you want to carry the firearm onto your neghbour's property which i can only presume is to be used for intimidation purposes when you next confront your neighbour at his door.

(BTW i do not care if you crouch carrying the firearm for protection from the dogs or not, you are trying to intimidate especially when you leave a position of safety (your property) and go to your neighbour's property where there are 'dangerous creatures' which could be released on you.)

additionally, no where do you state you called the police and animal control or filed a complaint.

bottom line, and i do not say this lightly, sorry BO, reading your manifesto coupled with the posts here, leads me to believe you are not mature enough to have and handle a firearm for the purposes it was intended and this situation will bring significant trauma and turmoil into your life, especially more than what you are currently experiencing.

ipse

addendum: before jumping into my case, i ask you please completely read the OP's published manifest of the situation

I read it, and I find your reaction a complete non-sequitur and wholly uncalled-for.

The OP didn't make any threats. He did advise them that, in the future, he would be prepared to defend against their aggression with concomitant force, but that isn't a threat.
 

Phoenix David

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
606
Location
Glendale, Arizona, USA
I guess I should disclose that I've never owned a pistol, until now. I did obtain a concealed carry permit. And I hope I never have to fire the gun again. (I fired it at the shooting range to make sure I can safely operate.)

Don't worry with that level of training if the time does comes you will be ineffective, you would be better off with pepper spray or mace, maybe a bat
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,453
Location
White Oak Plantation
Snail mail, e-mail, and maybe a telephone.

I would not step onto the neighbor's property, armed or not. It is unfortunate that a notice of trespass is required. They do have those signs at Wally World.

Document and record. Is Alabama a one party state or two? It seems a video camera is in order for the disputed side of the OP's property.
 

49er

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2008
Messages
156
Location
Central Alabama
I have this unfortunate ******* match going on with my neighbor's involving their dogs. For those who like to read, here is the summary.

The bottom line is my neighbors will be looking to retaliate over anything, no matter how petty. So I want to watch my Ps and Qs with my gun and do everything strictly by the book. I just read an excellent post about the Hoover Police Department, and that puts some of my concerns at ease.

I guess I should disclose that I've never owned a pistol, until now. I did obtain a concealed carry permit. And I hope I never have to fire the gun again. (I fired it at the shooting range to make sure I can safely operate.)

My understanding is that while I am on my property, I can basically carry my guns when I want and how I want. What about my neighbor's property? Can I knock on his door and ask if he is available to talk? Does it matter if the gun is concealed or not? It looks like according to 13A-11-52, it is okay to do this both concealed and open if I have a permit.

Damn, this stuff is complicated! Someone simplify it for me please.

Confronting your neighbor on his own property doesn't seem like a good idea given the history you describe. Why not file a complaint and let enforcement officers confront him?

Here's a link to some information on the subject:

http://www.aces.edu/urban/FamilyWebsite/UNP-0047.pdf
 

Baked on Grease

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Messages
629
Location
Sterling, Va.
The major issue I see with that letter is the notice of trespass. I don't think it will pass legal muster since it was mailed and addressed to Jay, not the person being trespassed. Not sufficient notice I think. Mail a notice of trespass separately to her with some sort of tracking or signature for proof it was sent and/or recieved.

Otherwise in regard to the arguments posted here, I agree with recent sentiment... he has a Right to self defense and is doing as any citizen should... he has a need for it and wishes to protect himself. His warning his neighbor is not a veiled or direct threat, merely a warning to them that inaction or negligence on their part to keep their dogs in check may have deadly consequences for those dogs. He tried it the hard way before and was completely ineffective, so he got the proper tools to be effective in his desire to protect himself and his property.
 
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solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,177
Location
here nc
sorry, but i am afraid legally, the term threat conveys a: quote a menace; a declaration of one’s purpose or intention to work injury to the person, property, or rights of another. A threat has been defined to be any menace of such a nature and extent as to unsettle the mind of the person on whom it operates, and to take away from his acts that free, voluntary action which alone constitutes consent. unquote.

Bo's quote: 'I’ve also prepared myself in the event of future dog attacks by carrying a sidearm." unquote only later is there a second sentence mentioning his firearm for 'self-defence'

please re-read my post to the OP who admitted in his post he doesn't have a clue on how to use a firearm and who wrote a rambling manifesto to his neighbour covering: temper tantrums, juvenile actions, dangerous dogs, oh, right rationale for calling animal control (sidebar ~ why didn't AC take the animals after the myriad of issue(s) were reported?), quotes from famous ppl & the Bible, neighbour's relationship, showed pictures of a black man contemplating and injured dog, explained how to get dogs apart in the event of a fight, recommendation to contact an attorney, trespass ~ but you can come over but not your partner, and finally an attempt at public embarrassment~ quote

And finally, I fully intend to post this on the internet so the absurdity of the entire situation is exposed for all to see.I told you man-to-man that I intended to pressure you into being responsible with your dogs. That pressure includes being vigilant in staying on topic, and using juvenile situations like ripped up grass as an opportunity to refocus attention on the primary problem of you harboring vicious dogs that are not securely confined or muzzled. unquote

then asked this august group if he can carry his gun to his neighbour's house which i am afraid could be construed as: quote: An act or words that are used to incite a person or group of people to action. The resulting act is usually a crime of impulse and the reasoning is that he/she made me do it by saying provocative things.unquote.

folks, who in their right mind would support someone who writes this kind of rambling and incoherent manifesto (quote: A formal written declaration, promulgated by a prince, or by the executive authority of a state or nation, proclaiming its reasons and motives for declaring a war, or for any other Important international action. unquote) to a neighbour who then wants to carry his gun to the neighbour's to 'talk' about the situation ~ the trespass? the dogs? the 4 inch property creep? the grass? exactly what part of the situation for goodness sake are they going to discuss??

baked on grease, you think his manifesto is about the trespass?

which 49er, and OC4ME after chastising me you have conceded going to your neighbour's house '...doesn't sound like a good idea...' Really, ya think? Oh and your 12 year olde ag bulletin was a nice contribution!

Marshaul 'tis my opinion a word i know you are familiar with as you use it constantly so get over someone else using the concept.

OP pursue statute 3-6-1 of the great State of AL

ipse

oh ya forgot: http://thelawdictionary.org/
 
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49er

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2008
Messages
156
Location
Central Alabama
solus,

Your crock of bs does nothing to further our goal of defending our right to bear arms for defense.

What is your real purpose for joining us here?



solus:

"...folks, who in their right mind would support someone who writes this kind of rambling and incoherent manifesto ... "



Your posts fit that description better than any other in this thread.

Take your own medicine solus, and take your ramblings back to your own state's forum.
 
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marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,193
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
I didn't find the OP's "manifesto" to be either rambling or incoherent in the least.

I found it well-written and engaging, and funny if at times a little snide.

The OP ought to get some pistol practice though.
 
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