Raleigh PD stance on Open Carry

[.40 Cal]

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So can we assume that the requirement of providing ID upon request without justification is another inferred law? Too many of those running around...:uhoh:

 

[kenpofan]

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Respectfully to all

The Link and post by Cato.

Especially he second paragraph.

Is perhaps the most complete response too the point , I was attempting to make.

I was not trolling or picking a fight.

I did not make my attempt very well it appears.

I wish to thank cato for the link provided because it is the best example of what ,I was attempting to articulate in my "devils advocate " aproach to the Capt.'s comments.

thank you

 

[ijusam]

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kenpofan wrote:

it appears that I made a mistake..

I thought you'd want to see the other side of the discussion..but it appears thatyou either don't know the law .In NC you are required to give your name and ID when so asked, or you don't think the Officer has a reasonable reason to check the ID of a person for his and /or the communities safety.

snip

Perhaps you are not looking at this correctly.

You have made a blanket statement that in NC you are required to give your name and ID when so asked.

This statement is not referenced by a law. It does not provide limitations, as it reads it is anytime, anywhere, by anyone. Now we assume you mean by a LEO and not Joe Blow. The paragraph from CATO is excellent but does not even come close to proving your claim. It refers to a legal Terry stop. A legal Terry stop must have more than open carry. it must have RS. The carrying of a firearm in an approved manner, absent of other factors, is not reasonable suspicion.

Unless you have a NC statute to reference, that a LEO may walk up to anyone, at any time, whether or not there is RS or PC and demand their name and ID, just admit that yourstatement was incorrect.

the only other option I can assume is that you are one of the LEO's that enforce their own beliefs and agenda, under the color of law

 

[Thundar]

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yonder wrote:

Whatever the case, I read it to mean that I can do it, I should expect to be harrassed from time to time by the RPD, but ultimately I'm not breaking any laws.

I'm wondering how the VCDL folks handled this. For those of you that are reading this, did you find it beneficial to go out in groups OC'ing to "condition" to public and police into seeing more OC and recognizing it as not a public threat?

I am a VCDL member but these are my thoughts, not VCDL's procedures.

1. Bring the appropriate code with you. VCDL has a very useful card with the code on it, that when folded in half fits in a wallet.

2. Research the local codes to ensure that there are not any pre-empted codes. Localities in VA still have many laws that have been preempted. Work to have them removed. (The NC preemption law should be part of #1 above.) Municodes.com has the codes of almost all localities on it.

3. Bring a tape recorder or video camera with you. Your word against a police officer and we know who will win. The police officers testimony against the tape recorder is a much better position.

4. Be prepared to get hassled. Be polite and non confrontational with both citizens and police. Rehearse your responses to potential questions.

5. Try to get the city attorney and the local prosecutor on your side. Inform them about what you are doing. Try to frame open carry as a civil rights issue with them. The prosecutor has broad discretion (power) to prosecute or dismiss charges. The city attorney provides advice to your city council, mayor, etc.

6. If the harassment and rights violations that are bound to happen are not corrected in a professional manner, then make it painful for the police department and the city council. The Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) is a very effective information gathering tool in Virginia. Officials seem to at least pay attention to you when they are "FOIAd". I hope theFOIA lawin N.C. has teeth. Use the public comment period at city council meetings to call out inappropriate actions and local code. The more OC advocates that you have the more effective your message will be.

7. Use the press. Letters to the Editor are sometimes effective.

I hope this helps.

 

[Thundar]

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Thundar wrote:

yonder wrote:

Whatever the case, I read it to mean that I can do it, I should expect to be harrassed from time to time by the RPD, but ultimately I'm not breaking any laws.

I'm wondering how the VCDL folks handled this. For those of you that are reading this, did you find it beneficial to go out in groups OC'ing to "condition" to public and police into seeing more OC and recognizing it as not a public threat?

I am a VCDL member but these are my thoughts, not VCDL's procedures.

1. Bring the appropriate code with you. VCDL has a very useful card with the code on it, that when folded in half fits in a wallet.

2. Research the local codes to ensure that there are not any pre-empted codes. Localities in VA still have many laws that have been preempted. Work to have them removed. (The NC preemption law should be part of #1 above.) Municodes.com has the codes of almost all localities on it.

3. Bring a tape recorder or video camera with you. Your word against a police officer and we know who will win. The police officers testimony against the tape recorder is a much better position.

4. Be prepared to get hassled. Be polite and non confrontational with both citizens and police. Rehearse your responses to potential questions.

5. Try to get the city attorney and the local prosecutor on your side. Inform them about what you are doing. Try to frame open carry as a civil rights issue with them. The prosecutor has broad discretion (power) to prosecute or dismiss charges. The city attorney provides advice to your city council, mayor, etc.

6. If the harassment and rights violations that are bound to happen are not corrected in a professional manner, then make it painful for the police department and the city council. The Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) is a very effective information gathering tool in Virginia. Officials seem to at least pay attention to you when they are "FOIAd". I hope theFOIA lawin N.C. has teeth. Use the public comment period at city council meetings to call out inappropriate actions and local code. The more OC advocates that you have the more effective your message will be.

7. Use the press. Letters to the Editor are sometimes effective.

I hope this helps.

Here is a very interesting O.C. incident video from N.H. It starts out slow, but video will kick in. Be patient with the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FWXnK5UyRI

 

[KBCraig]

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Thundar wrote:

Here is a very interesting O.C. incident video from N.H. It starts out slow, but video will kick in. Be patient with the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FWXnK5UyRI

A few days later, the mayor of Manchester stopped by Murphy's (the pub in the background, where the group was meeting), and was asked about this encounter. He'd been out of town when it happened, but when he got back he and the chief of police came to an understanding that open carriers wouldn't be hassled.

http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=10402.msg180973#msg180973

 

[kenpofan]

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( "Unless you have a NC statute to reference, that a LEO may walk up to anyone, at any time, whether or not there is RS or PC and demand their name and ID, just admit that yourstatement was incorrect.

the only other option I can assume is that you are one of the LEO's that enforce their own beliefs and agenda, under the color of law " )



If mypost came across asthat: at anytime and without reason( PC)you may be stopped..I apologize..I was assuming that a call or complaint had been filed and a street officer was responding to a concern.. (Perhap I misunderstood?)





That concern would be subject to the interpetation of the officer initailly and as such falls under or within the response below.

Per Counsel.

1st. I was assurred that if the officer met the requirements of :Terry vs Ohio or

Larry Hiibel vs Nevada you as aLEO had no problems.

Further the State of NChas :GS 14-223and GS 14-225

Those are the basis for the delay and obsruct laws ..

They arethe mostlikelycharge a citizen would face.

Then the Presiding judge would of course rule on the validity of a stop/question and the response of the accused.



I thanks to this thread, had developed some serious concerns that I might be mislead by my agency or misinterpeting the law as I recalled it.

I asked them for a straight answer and got what I've given you ..

I'm quite sure that a bunch of lawyers could make abetter answer for either side..

I'm not a lawyer and don't claim to be one nor do I claim that without PC/RS a person is required to ID themselves.



I hope that squares up what I intended to say.

Thanks again.

 

[TrueBrit]

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Harking back to the title of this thread, what gives this little Chief of Police, and his minions, the right to have any kind of "stance" on OC, at all?

As I understand things, OC is LEGAL in Raleigh,N.C.

End of story, as far as I am concerned!

TrueBrit.

 

[jeepinbanditrider]

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Exactly never....ever.....ever trust the govt. to have what's best in mind for ANYONE. Everthing the govt. does should be looked at by the Citizens of the US and scrutinized.