Open carry incident in Belle Meade Tennessee 1-23-10 5:15-5:30pm

[kwikrnu]

imported post

caverat wrote:

kwikrnu wrote:

I disagree, I think the police are the problem.

1. There was no complaint before the incident that I was a dangerous person.In fact the first complaint said I looked like a doctor and waved.

2.I'll post a couple more dispatch tapes. They show I was not acting strange. It shows they knew who I was.

5:13:34 1st complaint guy carrying a navy pistol

5:17:19 The guy pushing the limits

5:17:54 The guy we have a memo on

5:18:28 Appears to be a enlongated object



They who I was, they had a description of what I carried, and they knew I was wearing appropriate reflective clothing. Why was I stopped? I think to harrass me. In doing so I believe my rights were violated.

Sorry I missed these for my last post. I'm really mixed on if your rights were in fact violated? They had A 911 complaint that I would think give them reason to stop you. But it seams like thats what you wanted to happen?? Just looks an awfully lot like you were baiting this and they knew who you were makes me think this was not your first stunt to get attention. Your new posts have only proven my point all the more! I dont think your a bad guy but miss guided a bit maybe.

They knew who I was because Metro Nashville police put out a bulletin with my name and picture which went out at least State wide after I legally carried the AK-47 pistol to the State Park.

I have also discussed Belle Meade carry for several weeks on this site. It is entirely possible someone read the information I posted and sent it to the Belle Meade Police department. I could probably request the information through another request...

RAS doesn't come from a phone call where the person complaining can't say I am breaking a law. In fact the man says I am carrying what appeared to be a legal pistol (navy).

How did I bait the cops to stop me? I was walking normally down the road. I behaved as anyother person.

How did I bait them to search me illegally? Is it baiting to tell them you don't consent to a search?

 

[N6ATF]

imported post

kwikrnu wrote:

caverat wrote:

kwikrnu wrote:

I disagree, I think the police are the problem.

1. There was no complaint before the incident that I was a dangerous person.In fact the first complaint said I looked like a doctor and waved.

2.I'll post a couple more dispatch tapes. They show I was not acting strange. It shows they knew who I was.

5:13:34 1st complaint guy carrying a navy pistol

5:17:19 The guy pushing the limits

5:17:54 The guy we have a memo on

5:18:28 Appears to be a enlongated object



They who I was, they had a description of what I carried, and they knew I was wearing appropriate reflective clothing. Why was I stopped? I think to harrass me. In doing so I believe my rights were violated.

Sorry I missed these for my last post. I'm really mixed on if your rights were in fact violated? They had A 911 complaint that I would think give them reason to stop you. But it seams like thats what you wanted to happen?? Just looks an awfully lot like you were baiting this and they knew who you were makes me think this was not your first stunt to get attention. Your new posts have only proven my point all the more! I dont think your a bad guy but miss guided a bit maybe.

They knew who I was because Metro Nashville police put out a bulletin with my name and picture which went out at least State wide after I legally carried the AK-47 pistol to the State Park.

I have also discussed Belle Meade carry for several weeks on this site. It is entirely possible someone read the information I posted and sent it to the Belle Meade Police department. I could probably request the information through another request...

RAS doesn't come from a phone call where the person complaining can't say I am breaking a law. In fact the man says I am carrying what appeared to be a legal pistol (navy).

How did I bait the cops to stop me? I was walking normally down the road. I behaved as anyother person.

How did I bait them to search me illegally? Is it baiting to tell them you don't consent to a search?

YES. How dare you assert your Constitutional rights!

 

[caverat]

imported post

Are you going to try and say you thought for one minuet they would not stop you??
You were well with in your rights to to carry as you did! I used to live in a very small town and one bullet Barny would have stopped me. And was used to seeing me pack a 6 gun.
We are free in Utah to open carry with no permit but would I stroll down the road packing my AR and think I had any chance of not getting stopped NO and the big question why would I?
there really is no argument hear YESyou were well with in your rights. but what it really comes down to is common sense!! So maybe you tell us all why you really chose to do what you did??
Again I commend you on knowing your laws so well and choosing to exercise your 2a rights if everyone would have kept doing it we would not have to work so hard to keep it.

 

[slowfiveoh]

imported post

-- As long as you adhere to the ideology that inalienable rights are limited to what is socially "normal", then you are not for inalienable rights. You are for "social norms".
Hiding behind trends, to justify dismissal or trampling of said rights, is nothing less than alignment with those who would limit our rights.

"Common sense", should not dictate that because someone did not break a law, they should be stopped, harassed, or otherwise detained against their individual will.


-- As long as you emphasize, that individual liberty cannot be sought at the individual level, you are not a proponent for individual liberty, you are a proponent for organized opposition, and not for individual rights.

Be careful who you refer to as sheep, while standing in your "own herd", bleating.

 

[GLOCK21GB]

imported post

caverat wrote:

Superlite27 wrote:

And to post that lady's personal info on the internet you really suck and I hope she sues you butt!!!

Hmmmmm. Maybe she could also sue the police department since they posted the audio recording of her giving it out on the internet as well.

Good point and taken but it was very distasteful to post it for all us haters to have. Anyone wishing to find it could but why not be the bigger man. She was totally just being a trouble maker as the LEO were already on seen.

I bet she gets a pile of nasty mail because of this..:lol:

 

[kwikrnu]

imported post

Glock34 wrote:

caverat wrote:

Superlite27 wrote:

And to post that lady's personal info on the internet you really suck and I hope she sues you butt!!!

Hmmmmm. Maybe she could also sue the police department since they posted the audio recording of her giving it out on the internet as well.

Good point and taken but it was very distasteful to post it for all us haters to have. Anyone wishing to find it could but why not be the bigger man. She was totally just being a trouble maker as the LEO were already on seen.

I bet she gets a pile of nasty mail because of this..:lol:

I think it would be a bad idea to harrass the lady. No good could possibly come of it.

I posted the audio as I received it from the City of Belle Meade. There is no expectation of privacy if one makes a 911 call.

I do think it is funny the cop sounds like he is conspiring with the woman to "get" me.

 

[Thundar]

imported post

Sound advice kwik.

They are O.K. violating your constitutionally explicit 2A rights, but will come down very heavy on anybody that violates an etherial "privacy" right.

 

[Thundar]

imported post

A reading of the original statements by the officers reveals that CPL Goins states that he will stop anyone with a gun.

Is posession of a firearm RAS in Tennessee?

 

[aadvark]

imported post

All Tennessee Firearms Laws, made prior to April 1986, are Local Laws.

All Firearm Laws in Tennessee, made after said date, are Tennessee Laws, per State-wide Preemption.

Belle Meade requires Army and Navy Pistols to be worn Openly in the Hand, as its Ordinance was in place before April 1986.

Therefore, per the Incident, no Law was broken!

 

[kwikrnu]

imported post

Thundar wrote:

A reading of the original statements by the officers reveals that CPL Goins states that he will stop anyone with a gun.

Is posession of a firearm RAS in Tennessee?

For most of the State I would say yes. The reason why is that according to TCA 39-17-1307 the carry of a loaded handgun is illegal and officers have authority under 39-17-1351 to detain for officer safety. However, in this case Belle Meade is an exception to all State firearm lawsTCA 39-17-1314(a). Belle Meade has their own law 11-6-602 which defines what is illegal and specifically excepts the gun I carriedand the way I carried.

Many people have said any gun is RAS to stop and search someone where open carry is legal. I call foul on that. Even Judge Black in the St. John v Alamogordo New Mexico said the Fourth Amendment has no firearms exemption.

 

[Thundar]

imported post

kwikrnu wrote:

Many people have said any gun is RAS to stop and search someone where open carry is legal. I call foul on that. Even Judge Black in the St. John v Alamogordo New Mexico said the Fourth Amendment has no firearms exemption.

+10 kwik. The officer clearly states he will violate citizens civil rights every time he sees a gun. We know that doesn't pass constitutional muster.

 

[Task Force 16]

imported post

Thundar wrote:

A reading of the original statements by the officers reveals that CPL Goins states that he will stop anyone with a gun.

Is posession of a firearm RAS in Tennessee?

In TN we are required to have on our person a Handgun Carry Permit (HCP) or carry permit from another state that TN recognizes, anytime we have a loaded handgun on our person, CC or OC.

LEO may approach anyone they see carrying a firearm in a public place. They may disarm such person temporarily and ask to see a validHCP, if you have a loaded handgun. Once the LEO has determined that your HCP is valid he is to return your handgun and send you on your way.

I've been OCing since I got my HCP a year ago last Sept. I have yet to be stopped and asked to present my HCP by a LEO. At most, I've had officers ask what model/cal I'm carrying. Not once has a LEO questioned my mode of carry. I have crossed paths with sheriffs deputies in both Perry and Lewis County's, Tennessee HP, and Nashville Metro PD, as well as other LEO's from other agencies in western TN.

If I am ever stopped, I will show the officer the same respect and courtesy they show me. Being a wise ass, on my part,will only prolong the encounter.

 

[kwikrnu]

imported post

Task Force 16 wrote:

Thundar wrote:

A reading of the original statements by the officers reveals that CPL Goins states that he will stop anyone with a gun.

Is posession of a firearm RAS in Tennessee?

In TN we are required to have on our person a Handgun Carry Permit (HCP) or carry permit from another state that TN recognizes, anytime we have a loaded handgun on our person, CC or OC.

That is not true according to TCA 39-17-1314(a). Look on the open carry map on this site and it is spelled out that there is no State preemption. Wikipedia calls our State anomolous. Which means the laws are not the same in each city, county, or municiplaity. It would be easier to carry if the Legislature would remove those pesky last words from TCA 39-17-1314(a). They had the chance to amend it last year when they rewrote 1314(a), but they didn't. They won't because the local governments like their autonomy.

 

[Task Force 16]

imported post

kwikrnu wrote:

Task Force 16 wrote:

Thundar wrote:

A reading of the original statements by the officers reveals that CPL Goins states that he will stop anyone with a gun.

Is posession of a firearm RAS in Tennessee?

In TN we are required to have on our person a Handgun Carry Permit (HCP) or carry permit from another state that TN recognizes, anytime we have a loaded handgun on our person, CC or OC.

That is not true according to TCA 39-17-1314(a). Look on the open carry map on this site and it is spelled out that there is no State preemption. Wikipedia calls our State anomolous. Which means the laws are not the same in each city, county, or municiplaity. It would be easier to carry if the Legislature would remove those pesky last words from TCA 39-17-1314(a). They had the chance to amend it last year when they rewrote 1314(a), but they didn't. They won't because the local governments like their autonomy.

Well then, if you're so all fired sure of yourself, the next time you tak another stoll in Bell Meade with you gun in hand leave your HCP at home.

Let us know how that works out for ya.

 

[kwikrnu]

imported post

Task Force 16 wrote:

Well then, if you're so all fired sure of yourself, the next time you tak another stoll in Bell Meade with you gun in hand leave your HCP at home.

Let us know how that works out for ya.

Since you're so sure point out some case law or opinion from an attorney.

Metro Nashville law office has given their opinion and agree with me. I've posted the opinion here.



I'll just sit here and wait for you.

 

[Archangel]

imported post

bohdi wrote:

If they don't stop you and ask you a few questions to make sure you're not a few apples short of a fruit basket, they will get fried. If they do stop you, they will get fried. It's a no win situation.

I have no doubt from what I have seen from kwikrnu on this and other forums that he is indeed a few apples short of a fruit basket. Let him keep this up and he will no doubt be assuming room temperature courtesy of a zealous LEO or citizen. That will be a shame.

Well for whoever shoots him that is . . .

 

[slowfiveoh]

imported post

ColdBlueSteel wrote:

bohdi wrote:

If they don't stop you and ask you a few questions to make sure you're not a few apples short of a fruit basket, they will get fried. If they do stop you, they will get fried. It's a no win situation.

I have no doubt from what I have seen from kwikrnu on this and other forums that he is indeed a few apples short of a fruit basket. Let him keep this up and he will no doubt be assuming room temperature courtesy of a zealous LEO or citizen. That will be a shame.

Well for whoever shoots him that is . . .

Is your name Detective Rod Tuason?

He advocates killing law abiding open carriers as well...

 

[N6ATF]

imported post

slowfiveoh wrote:

ColdBlueSteel wrote:

bohdi wrote:

If they don't stop you and ask you a few questions to make sure you're not a few apples short of a fruit basket, they will get fried. If they do stop you, they will get fried. It's a no win situation.

I have no doubt from what I have seen from kwikrnu on this and other forums that he is indeed a few apples short of a fruit basket. Let him keep this up and he will no doubt be assuming room temperature courtesy of a zealous LEO or citizen. That will be a shame.

Well for whoever shoots him that is . . .

Is your name Detective Rod Tuason?

He advocates killing law abiding open carriers as well...

HAHA I was waiting for that.

 

[Archangel]

imported post

slowfiveoh wrote:

ColdBlueSteel wrote:

bohdi wrote:

If they don't stop you and ask you a few questions to make sure you're not a few apples short of a fruit basket, they will get fried. If they do stop you, they will get fried. It's a no win situation.

I have no doubt from what I have seen from kwikrnu on this and other forums that he is indeed a few apples short of a fruit basket. Let him keep this up and he will no doubt be assuming room temperature courtesy of a zealous LEO or citizen. That will be a shame.

Well for whoever shoots him that is . . .

Is your name Detective Rod Tuason?

He advocates killing law abiding open carriers as well...

Um, no that's not my name.

And I don't believe I "advocated" killing anybody. Try to read slowly.

If you agree with what this guy is doing then you are just as much of a whack job as he is.

He is ANTAGONIZING the police with his antics in the hopes of a juicy lawsuit in his favor and 15 minutes of fame. I am betting that sooner or later he is gonna catch a bullet. I don't "hope" it happens, but when you do goofy things like painting guns orange and carrying a gun IN YOUR HAND down the street, you are ASKING for something to happen.

Sooner or later it will...

 

[slowfiveoh]

imported post

ColdBlueSteel wrote:

Um, no that's not my name.

And I don't believe I "advocated" killing anybody. Try to read slowly.

Your disrespectful, and provocative response tells me everything I need to know about you on-the-fly.

Your commentary was obvious reference to you thinking that his legal activity warrants, or otherwise is worthy of such response up to and including him being shot.

Don't duck. Don't hide. Don't swivel. Be a man and stand up for what you are actually implying.

ColdBlueSteel wrote:

If you agree with what this guy is doing then you are just as much of a whack job as he is.

I agree with him lawfully carrying a firearm, and deny your ostentatious conjecture speculating to the condition of mine, or his, mental health. Unless you are implying you have your Web-MD in Psychiatry?

"Oh no he didn't find 40 other people to do this with, therefore boo-hoo on him!" - Right?

He carried lawfully.
He carried the ONLY WAY he could lawfully.
He was the only one, out of many joggers who past him that wore the vest in compliance with law.

So if studying the law, carrying lawfully, and abiding by other laws makes him a whackjob, then I am sure you and many others are flat out loony too!

I give little credence to your pathetic opinion to be frank, and am enlightened to your character by trying to dismiss what you REALLY meant in your previous post.

ColdBlueSteel wrote:

He is ANTAGONIZING the police with his antics in the hopes of a juicy lawsuit in his favor and 15 minutes of fame. I am betting that sooner or later he is gonna catch a bullet. I don't "hope" it happens, but when you do goofy things like painting guns orange and carrying a gun IN YOUR HAND down the street, you are ASKING for something to happen.

Sooner or later it will...

I am not sure where you got your degree in common sense, but everything he did was lawful, and stands to gain just as must objection from law enforcement as your prescribed method of open carry, if you do indeed open carry.

Hey I have an idea! maybe you could actually read what happened here, and possibly, could have understood from the beginning, that CARRYING IT IN HIS HAND WAS THE ONLY LEGAL OPTION IN THAT COUNTY.

Do I need to bump up the font so you can read?

It has already been well established, and rightfully so, that it doesn't matter WHAT color your barrel or firearm is. It simply DOESN'T MATTER, because any reasonable adult, LEO or not, realizes that pointing ANYTHING at people that resembles a firearm is just BAD PRACTICE.

Go back to dreamland, creating hypothetical scenarios using massive amounts of hyperbole, to try and draw any credibility to the idea that an orange tip means anything in the first place.

Would YOU let somebody point ANYTHING at YOU that resembled a gun, orange tip or not?

Dependent upon how you answer that, may give me GPS coordinates as to your precise location in the gene pool.