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Open Carry Event in Washington DC January 17, 2021?

SAK

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
255
Location
ShaunKranish from ICarry.org, ,
Forgive me - I don't know what the acronym LG stands for.

My definition of "Constitution Carry" is that a man or woman may be armed openly or concealed without having had to submit any application and secure any license or permit. "That all men be armed..." which of course today would also include women.

I always contacted the local police when we were conducting open carry events. I didn't ask for permission, but factually told them about the event and what we were going to do. We never had a single problem - zilch. In fact - at one of our open carry events a local law enforcement officer attended the event in plainclothes and brought his wife and children. This was Wisconsin and Illinois - the last 2 states to pass a "shall-issue" law.

This website inspired me to be more "open" about carrying arms. I was first arrested in 2005 - before there was a movement for carry on campus. Then not a year later I was arrested while complying with state law, and fought felony charges for over 4 years. I defended myself in court during part of that, conducting my own hearings, cross-examining "expert" witnesses, and the charges were dropped...only to be appealed sending me through the gauntlet again. Yet I would do it again. I had a Utah permit until it expired, but never an Illinois carry permit...despite pushing so hard for that law to be passed. Why should I ask for permission, pay money, and jump through hoops to exercise a right?

I'm glad we are having this discussion. I wanted to share an idea. Would you like me to setup an event? I will gladly do so. I have laid out what I believe is the best template for this type of event. It is not a theory - it's been done. I owe no one anything - I've paid more than my fair share of dues for this fight. I've not just talked the talk, but walked the walk and still do now. We pushed the envelope, and it pushed us forward and helped win the battles for those 2 states. While some were afraid such action could set us back, it proved to only help us. It's such a novel idea - not just talk about rights but actually exercise them.

So, my proposal is a nationwide open carry day, focused on 2nd Amendment-protected rights, benefitting the cause of children's cancer research/treatment (online fundraiser).

Our site was very powerful and packed with information and discussion back in the day before the viruses took over. Then life took over - wife and 2 children.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,602
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Forgive me - I don't know what the acronym LG stands for.

My definition of "Constitution Carry" is that a man or woman may be armed openly or concealed without having had to submit any application and secure any license or permit. "That all men be armed..." which of course today would also include women.

I always contacted the local police when we were conducting open carry events. I didn't ask for permission, but factually told them about the event and what we were going to do. We never had a single problem - zilch. In fact - at one of our open carry events a local law enforcement officer attended the event in plainclothes and brought his wife and children. This was Wisconsin and Illinois - the last 2 states to pass a "shall-issue" law.

This website inspired me to be more "open" about carrying arms. I was first arrested in 2005 - before there was a movement for carry on campus. Then not a year later I was arrested while complying with state law, and fought felony charges for over 4 years. I defended myself in court during part of that, conducting my own hearings, cross-examining "expert" witnesses, and the charges were dropped...only to be appealed sending me through the gauntlet again. Yet I would do it again. I had a Utah permit until it expired, but never an Illinois carry permit...despite pushing so hard for that law to be passed. Why should I ask for permission, pay money, and jump through hoops to exercise a right?

I'm glad we are having this discussion. I wanted to share an idea. Would you like me to setup an event? I will gladly do so. I have laid out what I believe is the best template for this type of event. It is not a theory - it's been done. I owe no one anything - I've paid more than my fair share of dues for this fight. I've not just talked the talk, but walked the walk and still do now. We pushed the envelope, and it pushed us forward and helped win the battles for those 2 states. While some were afraid such action could set us back, it proved to only help us. It's such a novel idea - not just talk about rights but actually exercise them.

So, my proposal is a nationwide open carry day, focused on 2nd Amendment-protected rights, benefitting the cause of children's cancer research/treatment (online fundraiser).

Our site was very powerful and packed with information and discussion back in the day before the viruses took over. Then life took over - wife and 2 children.
Shaun, I understand where you are coming from. I am familiar with Icarry and your case. I too have been arrested and prosecuted for open carry. A 20 month ordeal ending in acquittal. As you found out the court system is crooked as hell. I also see you have been banned from IllinoisCarry, not surprising. I wish you luck with your endeavor.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,602
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
The FBI is tracking an “extensive amount of concerning online chatter,” including calls for armed protests leading up to next week's presidential inauguration, Director Chris Wray said Thursday.
Good morning Mr. Wray, How do you like OCDO? Your perusing of this forum surely has informed you of the law and the right to keep and bear arms and as you know any law repugnant to the constitution is void ab initio. Go in peace.
 

cloudcroft

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,896
Location
El Paso, TX
@SAK
Just for the record here I also used to host OC Events ("Get-Togethers") at assorted eateries -- nothing big or outdoors/public-spaces (or protests) like you've done though (but I HAVE been a "guest" in the "Criminal Justice System" years back). After some 50-60 events in 3 states (TX/NM/CO, since 2008) however, I gave up due to what I saw as a "serious lack of interest" in OCing out there -- and even HERE as this site is REALLY "slow," if you will. In short, IMO OCing will never be commonplace. Ever. :-(
Aside from other OCers (which are HARDLY EVER seen in the wild!), and newbies interested in carrying (CC or OC, and want info, etc.), I also invited CCers to my events -- even if any CCer DID attend, THEY turned out to be my most vocal and harshest critics (and some even got hostile) as they refused to "get" OC, only to go on perpetuating the often-cited (but baseless and ignorant) negative myths against OCing -- an example of gun carriers often being their own worst enemies, if you will. So I hesitate to talk to CCers about OCing anymore, OTOH, I've found "gun newbies" WAY more open-minded on the subject.
True, a big part of attendance numbers MAY have been REACHING people (advertising) the events, as few people probably visit this forum (and other guns forums) to get news of an event happening locally, but there were still enough "views" of my posts of an upcoming event to lead one to expect a whole lot more people attending -- but they didn't.
So whatever the reasons (IMO, it was mostly laziness on their part to DRIVE someplace), I gave up hosting events...
NOWADAYS, I just do the Lone Wolf thing here (as ALL OCers do anyway) in Colorado Springs: Just go out OCing as per usual, sometimes talk to people (who see my gun and ask questions -- I don't push anything), give them my "card," and that's about it. While that's incredibly slow-going (trying to reach Hearts & Minds, one person at a time), it's still doing SOMETHING, and more than any CCers apparently do for "the cause."
The "events" were just an attempt to reach MORE people AND to socialize/meet OTHER OCers (other Lone Wolves!) and perhaps get organized in some (and meaningful) way. It just wasn't that productive (as I think it COULD have been).
Regardless, given the poor attendance records for past events, I don't think I'll ever restart them. Further, I've found "gun people" (especially carriers) to be the most complacent, apathetic and LAZY people, so they won't even bother to "get involved" even if it's only meeting-up with "fellow carriers" (OC/CC) at a local "don't have to drive THAT far" restaurant/coffee-shop, let alone show up for any "mass protest" The Left does so "enthusiastically." ;-)
Regardless, I continue my "personal quest/grass-roots" efforts (encouraging people to CARRY) as best I can by myself on a daily basis when I go out & about, as the opportunity presents itself.
Best wishes,
-- C
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,602
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
@SAK
Just for the record here I also used to host OC Events ("Get-Togethers") at assorted eateries -- nothing big or outdoors/public-spaces (or protests) like you've done though (but I HAVE been a "guest" in the "Criminal Justice System" years back). After some 50-60 events in 3 states (TX/NM/CO, since 2008) however, I gave up due to what I saw as a "serious lack of interest" in OCing out there -- and even HERE as this site is REALLY "slow," if you will. In short, IMO OCing will never be commonplace. Ever. :-(
Aside from other OCers (which are HARDLY EVER seen in the wild!), and newbies interested in carrying (CC or OC, and want info, etc.), I also invited CCers to my events -- even if any CCer DID attend, THEY turned out to be my most vocal and harshest critics (and some even got hostile) as they refused to "get" OC, only to go on perpetuating the often-cited (but baseless and ignorant) negative myths against OCing -- an example of gun carriers often being their own worst enemies, if you will. So I hesitate to talk to CCers about OCing anymore, OTOH, I've found "gun newbies" WAY more open-minded on the subject.
True, a big part of attendance numbers MAY have been REACHING people (advertising) the events, as few people probably visit this forum (and other guns forums) to get news of an event happening locally, but there were still enough "views" of my posts of an upcoming event to lead one to expect a whole lot more people attending -- but they didn't.
So whatever the reasons (IMO, it was mostly laziness on their part to DRIVE someplace), I gave up hosting events...
NOWADAYS, I just do the Lone Wolf thing here (as ALL OCers do anyway) in Colorado Springs: Just go out OCing as per usual, sometimes talk to people (who see my gun and ask questions -- I don't push anything), give them my "card," and that's about it. While that's incredibly slow-going (trying to reach Hearts & Minds, one person at a time), it's still doing SOMETHING, and more than any CCers apparently do for "the cause."
The "events" were just an attempt to reach MORE people AND to socialize/meet OTHER OCers (other Lone Wolves!) and perhaps get organized in some (and meaningful) way. It just wasn't that productive (as I think it COULD have been).
Regardless, given the poor attendance records for past events, I don't think I'll ever restart them. Further, I've found "gun people" (especially carriers) to be the most complacent, apathetic and LAZY people, so they won't even bother to "get involved" even if it's only meeting-up with "fellow carriers" (OC/CC) at a local "don't have to drive THAT far" restaurant/coffee-shop, let alone show up for any "mass protest" The Left does so "enthusiastically." ;-)
Regardless, I continue my "personal quest/grass-roots" efforts (encouraging people to CARRY) as best I can by myself on a daily basis when I go out & about, as the opportunity presents itself.
Best wishes,
-- C
For the most part I can fine no argument with your observation and conclusion. And the low participation here is different than observation/visitors to read what is posted.

I have wondered if all the legal/case law postings, including legal interpretations fall on deaf ears? In other words, is this forum informative, accurate as to gun rights?

This is the only forum I post on because of the ignorants that populate other forums and their joy in defending their stupefaction.
 

CJ4wd

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2017
Messages
306
Location
Planet Earth
Seems there are some august forum members at WAGuns advocating,
snozzberries 12 jan 2021 quote:
"if you are talking about the below rally, you should know it's fake. It's not real. It's a setup. It's a trap. Don't go there. It's not organized by Trump supports, it's organized by Antifa and BLM.

Antifa and BLM will probably set of some firecrackers, or rush the police, to try to get people shot, pretend that we conservatives are all violent crazy people. False flag. We all already know the violent left, Antifa and BLM, love fighting the police and throwing molotov cocktails at them. They need to establish the perception we are violent.

We all know there weren't "peaceful protests" all summer, but Burning, Looting, and Murdering. The Washington DC peaceful protest helped them try to turn the tide of the views of people. But they need more. Hence the below setup."


This question may not make a lot of sense but it is one that has been in the back of my mind since this unpleasant action took place.
In a crowd of several thousand people, how many "agitators" would it take if they were embedded in the crowd but in communication with each other and an overall co-ordinator? Five? Ten? With all the differing "conservative personalities" and the varied level of anger and disgust at Washington's actions, how hard would it have been for those outsiders to get those conservative hotheads goaded into the self-defeating acts that occurred?
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,074
Location
here nc
This question may not make a lot of sense but it is one that has been in the back of my mind since this unpleasant action took place.
In a crowd of several thousand people, how many "agitators" would it take if they were embedded in the crowd but in communication with each other and an overall co-ordinator? Five? Ten? With all the differing "conservative personalities" and the varied level of anger and disgust at Washington's actions, how hard would it have been for those outsiders to get those conservative hotheads goaded into the self-defeating acts that occurred?

Quite easily i'm afraid CJ, et al., this might assist...
The definition of flash mob is basically a group of people summoned (as by e-mail or text message) to a designated location at a specified time to perform an indicated action before dispersing. [merriam~webster]

this stated, in your example, coupled and based on the definition of flash mob, it would actually be quite easily to quickly increase crowd agitation by a few/numerous co-conspirator raising a peaceful non-violence demonstration to a destructive mob!
 

SAK

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
255
Location
ShaunKranish from ICarry.org, ,
1) Open carry helps counter the negative perception of firearms propagated by entertainment
2) Open carry helps counter the "bad guys and cops" are the only people who can/do carry and use firearms profiently
3) Open carry gets people thinking "if he/she can do it, perhaps I can too..."
4) Open carry gets people thinking "that person has the ability to really protect themselves in an instant"
5) Open carry (similar to #1) re-normalizes the firearm as a common, useful, everyday tool carried and used by regular people
6) Open carry events that are peaceful, positive, and benefitting charity show people that gun owners are caring/compassionate good people
7) Open carry events help secure existing rights and push for other rights that have been infringed to be, once again, respected
8) Open carry encourages those who already own guns to meet one another, network, and be emboldened in exercising their rights at the event and away from the event
9) Open carry events are memorable, bring people together, and create long-lasting friendships
10) Open carry events serve as a reminder that the People at large (aka the militia) retain the ultimate power - not standing armies, law enforcement, or other select groups
11) Open carry events can serve to help people start local militia groups. The 2nd Amendment should be a reminder that having the militia is "necessary" for freedom...not recommended or encouraged...the framers used the word "necessary." Why shy away from/shirk that duty?
12) Open carry shows one's commitment to personal safety and family and community safety and security

I'm all for concealed too. And without (please) starting a new discussion on advantages/disadvantages, I will always support concealed carry and speak honestly about its advantages. But open carry has the advantages above. I support the individual's right to choose how they wish to carry and for what reasons. It is not my place to harass someone for their choice, or try to pass unconstitutional laws to limit their choices. Militia depends on open carry, and security therefore depends on the same. Security also depends on concealed carry. Both are needed and protected by the 2nd Amendment...but only if we insist upon it constantly.
 

cloudcroft

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,896
Location
El Paso, TX
@SAK
I'm also "for" CC (don't know an OCer who is anti-CC), but due to my OCing experiences in the last 12 years, I've found that CCers are mostly anti-OC. Meaning, they're highly critical and regurgitate the false/negative criticisms of OC), and won't even TRY OCing -- I'm talking about OCing on a regular/daily basis, not rarely (as some CCers mean when they say "they also OC"). At best, they give you an "I'm not against OCing, but won't do it myself," yet then go on to list the same, lame reasons why OCing is NOT a good idea. If they're not "agaisnt " OC, they don't sound very "supportive" of it, either. So which are they?
I've also found that OCers have a different mindset than OCers, are less timid people in general (not "fearful" of OCing -- what people (especially rabid anti-gun liberals) may think or say, nor afraid of LEO interactions that might happen) -- and have a more/expansive "Big Picture" ("macroscopic") view of carrying. OCers"get" BOTH OCing and CCing, whereas CCers tend to be narrowly-focused ("myopic") and only get CCing. Yet ignorance of OCing doesn't stop them from being "OC experts" -- as if OCers are the clueless ones and need advice/instruction from CCers. ;-)
OCing actually HELPS CCers if they would stop and think about it...but they don't get THAT, either, as again, they don't get the Big Picture (hard to do with blinders on).
As for newbies, I only try to get them to CARRY, since I expect that almost all of them will CC exclusively. That's fine with me, since as I mentioned earlier, OC will never become as common as CCing is, even though CCing itself is pretty UNcommon: Most people in any given state who COULD qualify to get a CC permit and carry, the stats show the vast majority of them just WON'T for whatever reason -- anti-gun liberals, herd-mentality ("crimes happens to others, not to me"), or just plain laziness. So MOST people out there (93% or more approximately in each state) are unarmed, and easy victims-waiting-to-happen...
Yes, as you said, OCing and CCing is a personal choice -- going about unarmed (aka: defenseless) is ALSO a personal choice.
Let everyone own the consequences (survival or not) of such choices.
-- C
ETA: Some carriers (CCers, too!) think of themselves as "Sheepdogs" -- they're looking out for others (defenseless "sheep") to come to their aid if need be. Personally, I'm NOT a Sheepdog: If people won't make the effort to protect themselves, I sure won't protect them. After all, why should someone ELSE put themselves in harm's way to protect people who refuse to protect themselves? Worse, WHY should those same people expect others to DO that?
Rhetorical questions only... ;-)
CARRY! There's no substitute, no matter HOW you do it (OC or CC).
 
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