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Open carries has gun taken and is shot
- Thread starter donny
- Start date
MilProGuy
Regular Member
Situational Awareness must be priority number one when we leave the sanctity of our homes.
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sraacke
Regular Member
A good example of why you should always try to be alert and aware of those around you, wear your gun in a decent retention holster and get some retention training. Keep a knife clipped to your weak side pocket so you can draw it and cut/stab with it while holding onto your weapon with your strong hand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcjJUz3DSZc
Don't discount having pepper spray in your weak hand in place of a knife. Anything to get an advantage when defending your weapon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcjJUz3DSZc
Don't discount having pepper spray in your weak hand in place of a knife. Anything to get an advantage when defending your weapon.
eye95
Well-known member
A link posted in one of the other threads on this topic implies that the carry was CC and flat-out states that the carrier chased the BG into the store.
It remains to be seen if this was an OC gun-grab.
It remains to be seen if this was an OC gun-grab.
Emphasis mine:
"Toby Smith Jr. is accused of stealing Blaine Tyler's gun inside a gas station last week and fatally shooting him after Tyler chased Smith inside the store."
"According to court papers, Smith took Tyler's gun during a struggle and shot Tyler in the chest after the victim chased Smith inside the store."
Yep, you're typical OCers behavior while OCing. Definitely proves OC is bad.
"Toby Smith Jr. is accused of stealing Blaine Tyler's gun inside a gas station last week and fatally shooting him after Tyler chased Smith inside the store."
"According to court papers, Smith took Tyler's gun during a struggle and shot Tyler in the chest after the victim chased Smith inside the store."
Yep, you're typical OCers behavior while OCing. Definitely proves OC is bad.
Uh, reading comprehension much? He chased the guy into the store after the gun was taken. It's -why- he was chasing the guy.
Doing so after having his weapon taken was stupid. No retention holster was stupid. No retention training was stupid. None of that is the point though. The point is regardless of the incident's chain of events and it's outcome the gun being on display was what predicated it. The gun was the target of the theft. Had it been concealed none of this would have happened. Period.
Doing so after having his weapon taken was stupid. No retention holster was stupid. No retention training was stupid. None of that is the point though. The point is regardless of the incident's chain of events and it's outcome the gun being on display was what predicated it. The gun was the target of the theft. Had it been concealed none of this would have happened. Period.
Badger Johnson
Regular Member
It's apparently extremely rare and you have to be a very desperate and daring BG to go reaching for the guy's gun on his hip, not knowing if he was agile enough to shoot you. But bad guys do try to go for the cop's gun. Now, to be fair a cop goes into danger so that's a bit different. So it's not that it never happens but that it's exceedingly rare and not sufficient to be a deterrent to most able-bodied persons carrying in a proper holster.
SavageOne
Regular Member
Really
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/71002412.html#129889646636327&if_height=282
Never say never.
How's your reading comprehension?
He stole the gun inside the store after being chased into it.
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eye95
Well-known member
Emphasis mine:
"Toby Smith Jr. is accused of stealing Blaine Tyler's gun inside a gas station last week and fatally shooting him after Tyler chased Smith inside the store."
"According to court papers, Smith took Tyler's gun during a struggle and shot Tyler in the chest after the victim chased Smith inside the store."
Yep, you're typical OCers behavior while OCing. Definitely proves OC is bad.
I have pointed out Tyler chasing Smith in all three threads. So far, that point has been ignored by all.
eye95
Well-known member
Emphasis mine:
"Toby Smith Jr. is accused of stealing Blaine Tyler's gun inside a gas station last week and fatally shooting him after Tyler chased Smith inside the store."
"According to court papers, Smith took Tyler's gun during a struggle and shot Tyler in the chest after the victim chased Smith inside the store."
Yep, you're typical OCers behavior while OCing. Definitely proves OC is bad.
"Toby Smith Jr. is accused of stealing Blaine Tyler's gun inside a gas station last week and fatally shooting him after Tyler chased Smith inside the store."
As of now, the stories seem to be providing conflicting info, but my reading comprehension of the above seems to indicate that the chasing occurred prior to the stealing of the gun.
We need to wait until the story settles down and a clearer set of facts is available. Right now is too soon to start forming conclusions and accusing others of poor reading comprehension.
Lmfao. Wtf does an incident in Seattle have to do with this?
As for the chase, if one is educated in the language there's no ambiguity.
Not to mention it has already been established. Do your research.
Regardless, you're still missing the point: had the gun not been visible the incident would not have happened.
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PT111
Regular Member
The article was confusing to me but it appears that all the chasing was inside the store and no one chased anyone into the store. It does say that he was OC and as soon as Smith walked in he grabbed the gun. After that the chasing started and then the shooting.
Ignoring the personal comment and the poorly written report - does it matter whether he was chasing the guy after the gun was stolen or before?
He's armed and chasing a bad guy - stupid.
He's been disarmed and is chasing the guy that stole his gun - even more stupid.
Bottom line conclusion is still the same: this has little if anything to do with the OC vs. CC argument.
Aknazer
Regular Member
So donny, what exactly is the point of your post? To say that he should have CCed and that CCing is safer than OCing? Because if so should we start showing cases of CCers being targeted for crime and see which list is larger? I'm yet to see someone on this forum state that an OCer "can't" be targeted. People have been saying that (prior to this incident) it simply hasn't happened and statistically you are more likely to be targeted when CCing than when OCing, followed by reasons why they feel that OCers aren't targeted. This was a single incident and it helps to reiterate why one should get proper retention training/holsters, but one incident doesn't show a pattern and makes for such a low statistical number that it can easily be viewed as an outlier.
Assuming this is a legit gun grab (and I don't see why it wouldn't be) the next question becomes, did he chase the BG into the store to then lose his gun and be shot (which leads to the question of why was he chasing him in the first place and makes me believe this isn't the case), or did the BG take the gun from the guy in the store, attempt to flee, and proceeded to shoot the victim once the victim chased after him in an attempt to get his gun back? If the victim chased after the BG after the BG had the gun then ultimately I would put his death on his poor choice of chasing after an armed criminal while he himself was unarmed (not to diminish his death, but it does play into the cause of death).
Assuming this is a legit gun grab (and I don't see why it wouldn't be) the next question becomes, did he chase the BG into the store to then lose his gun and be shot (which leads to the question of why was he chasing him in the first place and makes me believe this isn't the case), or did the BG take the gun from the guy in the store, attempt to flee, and proceeded to shoot the victim once the victim chased after him in an attempt to get his gun back? If the victim chased after the BG after the BG had the gun then ultimately I would put his death on his poor choice of chasing after an armed criminal while he himself was unarmed (not to diminish his death, but it does play into the cause of death).
eye95
Well-known member
It was a refutation to a "never" statement. Reread both posts and the article. The relevance to a very specific statement made in this thread is quite clear.
Come on eye, I know you're not that dumb, at least not as much as the guy posting about Seattle. An armed robbery where a carrier is relieved of his weapon is not the same as an open carry gun grab. I clearly wasn't referring to the first case when I said "never"
PT111 gets it. The chase occurred *inside* the store *after* the gun was taken. "Chased inside" does not mean from outside to inside. Good grief.
The point of my post started out as something else but it has become a hilarious example of what some of you will do to rationalize things:
Really, it just doesn't get any better than that. I'll say it one last time: had the gun not been visible the man would still be alive. Why that's so difficult for some people to fathom is beyond me.
Aknazer: Your logic is also faulty. CCers are NOT targeted for their guns. This guy was. The gun was "responsible" for the entire incident.
PT111 gets it. The chase occurred *inside* the store *after* the gun was taken. "Chased inside" does not mean from outside to inside. Good grief.
The point of my post started out as something else but it has become a hilarious example of what some of you will do to rationalize things:
Really, it just doesn't get any better than that. I'll say it one last time: had the gun not been visible the man would still be alive. Why that's so difficult for some people to fathom is beyond me.
Aknazer: Your logic is also faulty. CCers are NOT targeted for their guns. This guy was. The gun was "responsible" for the entire incident.
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MilProGuy
Regular Member
eye95
Well-known member
Your incivility and name-calling (even in disguise) don't help your credibility.
You said that this never would have happened had the gun been concealed. We don't know that. The article posted showed that something similar can indeed happen with CC. That the stories are not identical is unavoidable.
Snarky comments about folks being dumb or suffering from poor reading comprehension don't help folks improve their beliefs about cops.
Moving on.
On edit: I am not the one jumping to conclusions regarding what happened from conflicting articles using unclear language. I am the one insisting that we wait for the facts to clear up before forming a judgment. I see you as having used your predisposition against OC to see what you want to see before a solid set of facts is known.
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eye95
Well-known member
And he may be wrong. Conflicting reports and sloppy reporting have not provided us with a clear set of facts yet.