OC and Photography video, Auburn, WA (02 FEB 2014)

[WalkingWolf]

The whole purpose of keeping a individual talking is to garner probable cause. Of course a person could just stand there and not talk, but going about your business just seems the logical thing to do.

Trying to have a battle of wits will just make some nitwit the loser.

 

[RogueReflections]

Why I do what I do..

I have been asked why I engage officers in dialogue...why I don't just ask if I am being detained, and when told no, simply leave. I have been told to not talk so much. I know the basic script of: "Am I being detained? "No." "OK, have a nice day." I have seen that video countless times, with different faces. While I see the importance of these videos, they don't interest me as something I wish to do. These videos are kind of like my photography....the way I see it. I like dialogue. I think the dialogue is what made this video interesting. I don't want to do the same videos as everyone else. If I am going to put up with being detained, I am going to create a document of the incident that is, hopefully, a little more interesting. It is just how I wish to express my art.

Regarding Auburn police: Believe it or not, I actually consider this a RELATIVELY good stop...not so much for what they did...but for what they DID NOT do. Sure, we shared some verbal jabs, but they NEVER violated their oaths. I was free to leave at any time. I chose to stay. I chose to talk. I chose to share banter. They responded. They never demanded ID, placed me in cuffs, used force, or arrested me. They honestly answered the questions I asked. I contacted the Deputy Mayor, as well as the general email for Auburn PD the following day, to commend these officers for NOT violating the Constitution. It is my hope that the APD chain of command will watch this video, knowing I was not there as their enemy, but as a free citizen, an advocate, and an artist. Maybe they will look at the video and see what they did well, as well as what they could improve on...sort of...positive reinforcement. NOT violating the Constitution is but one step and hopefully, from this video, they will see the need to raise the bar a little..so that the next stop (whether it is me or someone else) will be an even better one...and the next, even better. They now have an actual incident, that has been documented and shared, to work with. They can look at the number of views and KNOW people are watching. They can read the comments to see what public opinion is. This video is a VALUABLE tool for them, if they are accepting of it.

Believe it or not, there actually IS a method in my chaos. LOL

-Rogue-

 

[WalkingWolf]

Police like dialog also, it is how they build RAS or PC...:uhoh:

While I salute what you are doing(OCing), please do not encourage others to step into it. We strive hard here to educate members that talking to police is a bad idea. We encourage KYBMS.

If you want to risk your liberty that is fine. You won't get applause from I for not using your noodle.

 

[badkarma]

I say good job. If you keep poking the bull, you are going to get the horn. Saying anything will get you in trouble.

 

[Alpine]

I apologize if my responses are a little off. I don't know that I understand this whole "reply with quote" thing, as well as having a title for a reply. It has been forever since I have been in the forums. LOL!
I use Bambuser for now, until I find something better. Do you have any suggestions?

Nah, I was just curious and since you seemed to be an experienced photographer I wondered if there was a good app or program to use. I was using quikvideo for a while but I found it has a few bugs I don't like, so I am always looking for new apps for this.

 

[Whitney]

Undecided

I am interested to know, is the posture the officers took while clutching their collar is typical?
I ask because I have seen it as a defensive posture one might use in close quarters.

~Whitney

 

[RogueReflections]

Thanks...but....

Police like dialog also, it is how they build RAS or PC...:uhoh:

"please do not encourage others to step into it. We strive hard here to educate members that talking to police is a bad idea. We encourage KYBMS.
"You won't get applause from I for not using your noodle."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Walking Wolf: I mean this as gently as possible when I assure you: I am not looking for anyone's "salute" or approval. I do what I do because I am who I am. I am aware of why officers talk and encourage talking from "suspects." I was well aware of that while I was filming them. As much as I am an advocate for freedom, I like to express art in my own way. If you do videos, please continue the way you do. I would love to watch them. I will do mine the way that suits me.
Have a wonderful weekend.
-Rogue-

 

[RogueReflections]

Whitney: Undecided

I am interested to know, is the posture the officers took while clutching their collar is typical?
I ask because I have seen it as a defensive posture one might use in close quarters.

~Whitney

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If you have never worn a ballistic vest, as well as a full utility belt, this is a very comfortable way to stand. It is assumed to be a non-threatening posture. If officers had to protect their reactionary gap, their hands would already be in position to do so. It is comfortable and tactical. I am sure their are other opinions, but this is my input...for what it is worth.
-Rogue-

 

[Primus]

I am interested to know, is the posture the officers took while clutching their collar is typical?
I ask because I have seen it as a defensive posture one might use in close quarters.

~Whitney

No idea of its typical where they work but 2 things struck me about it....

1 it looks like crap. Looks like your hanging with your homeboys on the corner not like your a professional having a conversation with your employer ( the citizen). Would you stand there and think "yea glad I pay this guy to look like this"

2 no need to put your hands so far up. Mine get rested right on my belt where they belong. I carry habits over from army. So no hands in your pockets. And yo pull on my vest (under my shirt) I'd have to jack my uniform all up. So the hands get rested on the belt (not GUN) where they are supposed to be. Completely casual yet professional.

That's just MHO and how I've been trained and other guys I know train. Each department to its own I guess.

edit: spelling correction.

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[Fuller Malarkey]

Half of being considered a candidate for respectful acknowledgement is in the presentation...





The proper Primus stance, left profile / right profile. Hard for a scofflaw like me to appreciate the hours of posing in front of a mirror it takes to get that down right. These images are rare in that neither pose sports the signature Oakleys.

 

[WalkingWolf]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Walking Wolf: I mean this as gently as possible when I assure you: I am not looking for anyone's "salute" or approval. I do what I do because I am who I am. I am aware of why officers talk and encourage talking from "suspects." I was well aware of that while I was filming them. As much as I am an advocate for freedom, I like to express art in my own way. If you do videos, please continue the way you do. I would love to watch them. I will do mine the way that suits me.
Have a wonderful weekend.
-Rogue-

Nobody twisted your arm to come here and post your video for comments. Here everything you post can and will be used against you, just like in the street. Hey you do what you think you have to do, if you cannot handle the pointing then it may not be wise to be in the public eye.

 

[Primus]

Half of being considered a candidate for respectful acknowledgement is in the presentation...

View attachment 11270

View attachment 11271

The proper Primus stance, left profile / right profile. Hard for a scofflaw like me to appreciate the hours of posing in front of a mirror it takes to get that down right. These images are rare in that neither pose sports the signature Oakleys.

Actually they should be in the front on the belt. On the sides just loons like you have your hands on your hips or your hand is in your gun. If your stomach is too large to do this the there's larger things to fix to loon professional..

No mirror requires. Its self correcting mistake. When you have your hands somewhere they are not supposed to be and get decked you learn.

Thanks for the photos brother I appreciate all that you do.

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[RogueReflections]

Walking Wolf:

Nobody twisted your arm to come here and post your video for comments. Here everything you post can and will be used against you, just like in the street. Hey you do what you think you have to do, if you cannot handle the pointing then it may not be wise to be in the public eye.

I am quite comfortable being in the public eye. There is nothing to use against me because I have done nothing that can be. You can point out all you like. I was just saying (from your prior comment) I do not require approval from you or your thumbs up. I don't even know you. When you tell me I wont "get your salute" or whatever it was that you said, it does not matter to me. If I had a problem being in the public eye, I would not be posting videos. I think that should go without saying, but it appears it must be said.
-Rogue-

 

[Trigger Dr]

There are several on this forum that are card carrying members of the illuminati. You will recognize them by their unwavering statements that all LEO are corrupt, only their opinion is valid, they have the only correct way to carry...etc. They continue to bash LEO and any person that appears to differ with their point of view. They are also exempt from censure by the mods.

 

[Primus]

There are several on this forum that are card carrying members of the illuminati. You will recognize them by their unwavering statements that all LEO are corrupt, only their opinion is valid, they have the only correct way to carry...etc. They continue to bash LEO and any person that appears to differ with their point of view. They are also exempt from censure by the mods.

Wow.. well said. Qft.

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[Trigger Dr]

There are several on this forum that are card carrying members of the illuminati. You will recognize them by their unwavering statements that all LEO are corrupt, only their opinion is valid, they have the only correct way to carry...etc. They continue to bash LEO and any person that appears to differ with their point of view. They are also exempt from censure by the mods.

Carry on in the way you feel is best. The ONLY standards you need to follow are the ones YOU determine, not theirs.

 

[509rifas]

Personally, I think saying "I'm doing this to test officers knowledge" looks pretty petty, especially to "outsiders." If you're doing something to assert your rights, then just do it, no need to play the "i'm testing you here" game.

As for the hands on the lapel stance, I've seen that pretty often, just a comfortable stance I'm guessing. I've noticed there's a certing rocking back and forth movement with the torso completely erect motion that a number of them do when they're just loitering around. I imagine wearing a stiff vest like that gives you excellent posture.

It's hard to find anyone on here that'll agree with you 100% on anything. Arguing is what keeps this place interesting, and forces us to justify our views and end up doing a ton of research and thought we wouldn't have otherwise. If it was just a place where we sit around and agree with each other i'd probably go back to talking to myself in the mirror like I did before I found this forum.

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

Just a comment on the officers stance. It is obvious that it is being taught in their tactical training.

In 33 years of LEO training I haven't seen this before but then I been retired 3 plus years so it could be the up and coming trend.

I can see advantages to it and disadvantages to it.

I think their over tactics were piss poor no need to all being in front of the person being approached no need for placing all your assets into the most obvious danger zone.

With four officers two should have been well back off to the sides even behind cover with only two approaching.

Seems like they were more concerned about getting this guys picture then they were worried about being attacked.

Trying to use your cell phone and do other things opens yourself up, action beats reaction every time. If they really wanted a picture of the person .

They should have just waited tell it was over and took some as he was walking down the street.

Just a comments on the stance and tactics.

 

[WalkingWolf]

I agree it looked petty. But then it is his right to be petty, and indignant about the reaction to it. But then he claims he does not want approval, or care about criticism. And then whines when he gets it.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

There are several on this forum that are card carrying members of the illuminati. You will recognize them by their unwavering statements that all LEO are corrupt, only their opinion is valid, they have the only correct way to carry...etc. They continue to bash LEO and any person that appears to differ with their point of view. They are also exempt from censure by the mods.

Carry on in the way you feel is best. The ONLY standards you need to follow are the ones YOU determine, not theirs.

Here comes the judge here comes the judge....