imported post
eye95 wrote:
RussP wrote:
FedFirefighter wrote:
I am just wondering if there is anything else that can be done when you live in an open carry friendly state (Alabama) and have done your homework, know the statutes and case laws, responsibly OC and still get threatened with arrest or loss of your CPL? It seems unless you have a very fat bank account and a connection with a GOOD criminal lawyer, you had best cave to the LEO intimidation and conceal like a good little citizen.
I live in an open carry friendly state and have had many interactions with law enforcement in the six years I've been open carrying. All were good experiences.
"...you had best cave to the LEO intimidation and conceal like a good little citizen" indicates you have a negative attitude toward law
enforcement. Is that the usual firefighters vs. cops thing, or are there underlying causes for the statement? Have you already been threatened with arrest or loss of your CPL?
Is your question, "Is there anything you can do to avoid law enforcement encounters?"
Or, is it, "Are there things you can do to minimize the risk of negative reactions from law enforcement?"
As was said about Pennsylvania, education is all important. Here in Virginia efforts by staff and members of VCDL got the message across to several LE agencies, State and local governments all over Virginia.
I am not trying to answer for FFF, but having had an unfortunate run-in
with an Alabama LEO, I'll answer the question for myself.
Some LEOs (not all) do expect you to conceal "like a good little citizen." I was flatly told that I should by two LEOs (a CPL and a LT COL) and that that was the only way to avoid being hassled by LEOs.
Fortunately, MPD now officially recognizes that OC is legal. That's no guarantee that some other LEO won't stop me in the hope of convincing me to conceal "like a good little citizen."
I was not present at the incident in Dothan, however, it reeks of a plainclothes LEO and a LT both thinking that LAC's should conceal and planning to hassle any who do not.
Our primary goal in Alabama should be to educate LEAs on the law regarding OC and to pursue legal action against those LEAs and LEOs (and there are many) who will not accept the law as it is.
I've had ONE city police officer that had a problem with my OCing, even though he knew it was legal. I am someone who always stops to help people. I also inform LE of the situation and they arrive on the scene. He would often be the one to respond and he would always tell me I should be carrying concealed. I stated my reasons for OC and that I was carrying legally. He once stated: " (first name), you help a lot of people, BUT...". The rest would be about my OCing.
The last straw was one night when I pulled over behind a car. I could see a woman driver and some children. I asked her if I could do anything to help. Her transmission was out of commission and she had left a voice mail for her husband.
She asked if I could drive her, and her kids, to the military base. I had removed the rear seat, of my van, to make room for all of the stuff I carried to help people, so I only had one free seat. I told her that I would wait with her until her husband arrived.
I had called LE before approaching the vehicle. After I went back to my van, to wait, I saw two sets of blue lights in my mirror. That was the first time that two arrived. I saw the officer, who berated me about OC, walking to my vehicle.
I got out of my van and greeted him by name. He ignored me and walked up to the disabled vehicle and spoke briefly with the woman. I noticed the other officer in the usual back up position, but behind MY vehicle. I knew something was up.
He walked back and did his anti-OC speech again. The second officer walked up and asked me if I had a permit for the red light. I told him that I did and the sticker was on the right lower portion of the windshield. He didn't go to look at it. He then asked if I had a carry permit. I told him that I did. Without checking my permit, he got into his patrol car and left. The other officer stayed to continue the speech.
After he left, I asked the woman what the officer said to her. She said that all he said was: "Did he tell you that he is an officer?". She told him: "No, but I didn't give him a chance too tell me as I started telling what was wrong with my vehicle."
I was furious! He was wanting to arrest me for impersonating a police officer! Even though they don't use vans, nor red lights, etc. They didn't even bother to ask the woman what was wrong and if they could help!
I called dispatch and told the woman that two officers arrived to try and arrest me for impersonating an officer and they didn't offer to assist the woman. I asked her if she would send a patrol car to give the woman and children a ride to the base, which was 5 miles away. None responded. I sat there for three hours until her husband arrived.
The next day I called and set up an appointment with the chief of police. I met with him and even though he was an a-- about it all, I never saw that officer again. Apparently, someone else was dispatched instead. I heard that the officer was fired about six months later, something about his attitude to the public!
All that to say that it if you are in the right, there is no harm to go above the officer's head. I also want to say that he was the only bad apple. I have met many officers of the law, and the rest of them were great.
