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Now travelers can't take firearms into VA roadside rest area restrooms...

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,161
Location
here nc
driving out of WVA stopped at VA rest area and walked up to the restroom and found this...

va signage.jpg

truly an unbelievable step backwards in firearm advocacy...sigh...complete lunacy!!!

effective 1 July, quote:
Section 18.2-283.2 - Carrying a firearm or explosive material within Capitol Square and the surrounding area, into a building owned or leased by the Commonwealth, etc.; penalty

A. For the purposes of this section, "Capitol Square and the surrounding area" means
(i) the grounds, land, real property, and improvements in the City of Richmond bounded by Bank, Governor, Broad, and Ninth Streets, and the sidewalks of Bank Street extending from 50 feet west of the Pocahontas Building entrance to 50 feet east of the entrance of the Capitol of Virginia.

B. It is unlawful for any person to carry any firearm as defined in § 18.2-308.2:2 or explosive material as defined in § 18.2-308.2 within (i) the Capitol of Virginia; (ii) Capitol Square and the surrounding area; (iii) any building owned or leased by the Commonwealth or any agency thereof; or (iv) any office where employees of the Commonwealth or any agency thereof are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
unquote
[ https://casetext.com/statute/code-o...ned-or-leased-by-the-commonwealth-etc-penalty ]

this gentleman has extreme difficulty the state level advocacy group allowed this nonsense to progress through the VA legislature to become law...
 

VCDL President

Centurion
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Messages
600
Location
Midlothian, Virginia, USA
"this gentleman has extreme difficulty the state level advocacy group allowed this nonsense to progress through the VA legislature to become law..."

Explain to me how an advocacy group has the power to stop something like that from going through the legislature. VCDL fought all of this. We had over 1,000 cars drive into Richmond In January all decked out with pro-gun messages and we call our legislators to oppose all the gun control. The gun control got scaled back some and very little gun control was offered up compared to last year. But we have no power to stop the legislature from doing something if they are hell-bent on pushing it through no matter what. We can push gun owners to the polls to get those legislators unelected and we will probably do that with many of them this year. But we have no power to stop them from passing stupid laws. And we did not just standby and "allow" this to happen.

I see you are from NC. If you were from Virginia, I would be asking YOU what YOU did to help us fight that law.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,161
Location
here nc
"this gentleman has extreme difficulty the state level advocacy group allowed this nonsense to progress through the VA legislature to become law..."

Explain to me how an advocacy group has the power to stop something like that from going through the legislature. VCDL fought all of this. We had over 1,000 cars drive into Richmond In January all decked out with pro-gun messages and we call our legislators to oppose all the gun control. The gun control got scaled back some and very little gun control was offered up compared to last year. But we have no power to stop the legislature from doing something if they are hell-bent on pushing it through no matter what. We can push gun owners to the polls to get those legislators unelected and we will probably do that with many of them this year. But we have no power to stop them from passing stupid laws. And we did not just standby and "allow" this to happen.

I see you are from NC. If you were from Virginia, I would be asking YOU what YOU did to help us fight that law.
First, truly disappointed to have to respond to your stupidly rehashed rebuke [I see you are from NC. If you were from Virginia, I would be asking YOU what YOU did to help us fight that law.] at the end of your post...when paul, dale, several others were still walking the earth, I, repeat I was actively involved in the VA advocacy legislative gatherings for many years with these individuals, an others, cuz NC didn't have anything like it.

Further, I have, repeat, for the last 38 years I have consistently and actively participated in firearm advocacy in numerous states from the pacific northwest, southwest and middle, and now the southeastern parts of this great union, all the while meeting some outstanding folks.

[still shaking my head you felt the need to blindly challenge my advocacy in an attempt to bolster your ego!!]

Second, since you are casting dispersions, as noted you, as president, who controls the organizational reins seem to have lost oversight of your website...
a. last date on VCDL accomplishments is 2019
b. only 28 photos in media photos dated from 2016
c. VCDL TV only 8 one from 2013
i shan't continue as these examples show enough neglect of the website.

Third, you continually espouse organizational contact with legislative members, yet in this legislative debacle regarding carry into roadside restrooms, surely some VCDL member could/should/maybe reviewed this piece of legislation for as the title stated "the CAPITOL SQUARE and surrounding areas..." and made an observation...surely you do not mean VA roadside restrooms!

Fourth, just to point out it took many years of haggling and snail/email tirades to NC legislature members [and urinating next to trees in NC's rest areas] so Tarheel citizens and visitors passing along the byways and highway to be able to carry their concealed firearms [OC wasn't an issue] into latrines in the this state's rest areas.

Mr. Van Cleave I shall leave you with this...to answer your very first question in your post, quuote:
Explain to me how an advocacy group has the power to stop something like that from going through the legislature. unquote

VCDL believes that to win the fight to restore our Gun Rights, we have to:
go on the offensive
make use of a very effective lobbyist –- the voter

unquote https://vcdl.org/page/about

Since sir you are in VA and President of VCDL who personally took time to come out to visit OCDO to post a response lambasting this member's advocacy as well as brag about the history of a 1K vehicle parade in Jan 21 instead of stating..

"thanks for bringing that up, must of slipped thru the cracks as I personally wasn't aware of it, and I will have team members look into righting this atrocious nonsense - want to assist by send emails to the VA legislative members expressing your dismay - here is a link to email addys!"
 
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color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,702
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
"this gentleman has extreme difficulty the state level advocacy group allowed this nonsense to progress through the VA legislature to become law..."

Explain to me how an advocacy group has the power to stop something like that from going through the legislature. VCDL fought all of this. We had over 1,000 cars drive into Richmond In January all decked out with pro-gun messages and we call our legislators to oppose all the gun control. The gun control got scaled back some and very little gun control was offered up compared to last year. But we have no power to stop the legislature from doing something if they are hell-bent on pushing it through no matter what. We can push gun owners to the polls to get those legislators unelected and we will probably do that with many of them this year. But we have no power to stop them from passing stupid laws. And we did not just standby and "allow" this to happen.

I see you are from NC. If you were from Virginia, I would be asking YOU what YOU did to help us fight that law.

Really???? We have been through this before. January 20, 2020. "We shall not comply" and what did you do? you (collectively) complied. VCDL doesn't even rise to the level of being a paper tiger.

I'll wait for your response a year and a half from now.
 

VCDL President

Centurion
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Messages
600
Location
Midlothian, Virginia, USA
All I have is a "Solus" from NC. Since I have no idea who you are, so I have no idea about your advocacy over the years. But if you're been in the fight for as long as you say you have, you know what legal powers gun rights groups do and don't have. Are you suggesting we HELP pass gun control by "making it better"? If we had pushed to exempt rest areas, that's what we would have been doing. We'll just have to repeal these stupid laws when we have a better legislature. Elections are this year in Virginia, so we might be able to move things the other way in 2022. And we have been busy with more important things than updating our accomplishments page, but it does need updating and it will be updated to catch up with 2021 at some point, hopefully in the near future.

"Color of law" from Ohio, you talk bravely about "We shall not comply", yet you don't even use your real name in a chat group.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,161
Location
here nc
All I have is a "Solus" from NC. Since I have no idea who you are, so I have no idea about your advocacy over the years. But if you're been in the fight for as long as you say you have, you know what legal powers gun rights groups do and don't have. Are you suggesting we HELP pass gun control by "making it better"? If we had pushed to exempt rest areas, that's what we would have been doing. We'll just have to repeal these stupid laws when we have a better legislature. Elections are this year in Virginia, so we might be able to move things the other way in 2022. And we have been busy with more important things than updating our accomplishments page, but it does need updating and it will be updated to catch up with 2021 at some point, hopefully in the near future.

"Color of law" from Ohio, you talk bravely about "We shall not comply", yet you don't even use your real name in a chat group.

Phillip, of course, i'm sure the organization has been very busy attending to higher priority issues than the social media advertising aspects of your state level advocacy organization where you can seek members and contributions as you brag about whatcha ya have done and going to do BUT 3 years plus ignoring the website is inexcusable and shame on you as head Honcho for ignoring the opportunity.

as for my advocacy ~ it is sincerely disappointing you have not followed the nation's premier open carry site to avail yourself with this forum's message as well as it's members advocacy successes and activities across this nation...[perhaps only posting about your teaching Utah's CHP courses for 75$ in '08 for a four hour course w/o live fire mandates which to be honest is really quite pricey, but truly a nine year hiatus from '11 > '20 could be problematic]

unfortunately, from your statement here it appears organizationally you were narrowly focused jumping up and down on the "OMGoodness anti proposed legislative proposal" and also completely unaware of the ramifications down the road regarding this statute and as for help passing anti firearm legislature...yepper...especially if your organizational intervention could be something to brag about...e.g.,

"VA citizen's head's VCDL assisted VA's stupid legislature who suggested and attempting to pass this anti gun nonsense statute regarding no carry in VA rest area restrooms and while we were unsuccessful stopping in stopping the main legislative statute on firearm carry in the Capitol area, we were able to instill common sense, and got an exemption regarding the portion relating to rest area restroom carry on firearms added!"

Further, the brag would show the citizens in your state as well as across this nation that your organizational communicative lines are at least open to VA's legislative body...[doesn't mean they listened but you at least tried!!!]

finally, sent out an 'alert' notifying the VA citizens about this issue? I know for a fact this NC citizen via OCDO has brought the issue up on this forum and working on notifying other forums of the issue..

Mr Van Cleve...welcome to OCDC and hope you continue to participate in the future...

ps: it was good to meet you at dale's celebration gathering...
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
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Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
"Color of law" from Ohio, you talk bravely about "We shall not comply", yet you don't even use your real name in a chat group.
Chat group? What chat group? Young man, you have no idea of my background. I don't know nothing about anything. Of course, if you hung around this forum more, you may just learn something.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,702
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Let's get back to the sign, specifically Code of Virginia § 18.2-283.2. This section is unconstitutional in total.

First, Article I. Bill of Rights states: "A DECLARATION OF RIGHTS made by the good people of Virginia in the exercise of their sovereign powers, which rights do pertain to them and their posterity, as the basis and foundation of government." Based on this section the government is subordinate to the people. As it says the people are the sovereigns. The government is established for the protection and benefit of the people, NOT for the benefit of the government. Section 18.2-283.2 is clearly written to protect the government.

Second, Article I. Section 1. Equality and rights of men.
"That all men are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety." Based on this section of the Bill of Rights, section 18.2-283.2 interferes with the pursuit of the peoples safety.

Third, Article I. Section 2. People the source of power.
"That all power is vested in, and consequently derived from, the people, that magistrates are their trustees and servants, and at all times amenable to them." In other words, the courts are the protectors of the people, not the government.

Fourth, Article I. Section 3. Government instituted for common benefit.
"That government is, or ought to be, instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the people, nation, or community; of all the various modes and forms of government, that is best which is capable of producing the greatest degree of happiness and safety, and is most effectually secured against the danger of maladministration; and, whenever any government shall be found inadequate or contrary to these purposes, a majority of the community hath an indubitable, inalienable, and indefeasible right to reform, alter, or abolish it, in such manner as shall be judged most conducive to the public weal." WOW, this is a big one. This one requires the government to protect that the peoples rights are secured. In effect, leading to Section 13.

And fifth, Article I, Section 13. Militia; standing armies; military subordinate to civil power.
"That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power."

Based on this short list is enough to show that Code of Virginia § 18.2-283.2 is unconstitutional. And I would think VCDL have attacked that law at the very beginning. But, why would they? because VCDL really does not defend anything.
 
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solus

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Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,161
Location
here nc
mr. CoL [this is gonna cost me i know it :cautious::eek:]

but that information is truly worth of a chat group posting...shame the VA advocacy group isn't keeping up to enlist SAF/NRA/etc.

[hiding...]
 

user

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Northern Piedmont
The reason this legislation is unlawful is because it is a well established principle that one cannot be required to waive his rights under the Constitution in order to receive some public benefit. Back when the law was applied even-handedly and with some element of intellectual honesty, you could rely on stuff like that. Now the law only protects the Great Lords, Creditors, and The State, so I wouldn't risk disobedience without having first done a petition for declaratory judgment, because it's about power, not law.
 

color of law

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The reason this legislation is unlawful is because it is a well established principle that one cannot be required to waive his rights under the Constitution in order to receive some public benefit. Back when the law was applied even-handedly and with some element of intellectual honesty, you could rely on stuff like that. Now the law only protects the Great Lords, Creditors, and The State, so I wouldn't risk disobedience without having first done a petition for declaratory judgment, because it's about power, not law.
True!
However, before I would take-up litigation I would put all parties on notice that the signs are illegally posted and the statute, in of itself, is unconstitutional. Then, if litigation is required, the state cannot plead ignorance.
 
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