No reason to carry on campus?

[Rusty Young Man]

Figured I would start a thread like the one that has been cultivated by Protias in the Wisconsin sub forum (http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?80229-No-need-for-a-gun).

HOWEVER, I hope this thread will exclusively focus on news articles and the like reporting attacks happening on university/college campuses here in AZ. Any recognized "institution of higher learning" (seems more like indoctrination from where I sat in the classrooms ).

The biggest issue here is that campus carry tends to be severely restricted; at least in the case of the big three universities under the Arizona Board of Tyrants... er... Regents p), carry on campus by a student can result in disciplinary actions up to and including suspension and/or expulsion. No RIGHT to self defense on campus, it seems.

 

[Rusty Young Man]

Hits close to home

This article hits VERY close to home; some of you may know that I spent some time working in a research lab on campus.

Well, this happened yesterday evening (Wednesday, 27th of April), literally a stone's throw away from the place where I worked, and where my GF currently works.

http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article/2016/04/breaking-shots-fired-near-bio5-building-on-campus

Officers on the scene found bullet casings and blood near the Thomas W. Keating Bioresearch Building, according to Officer Rene Hernandez, public information officer for the University of Arizona Police Department.

UAPD has sent a final update indicating the Bio5 building has been cleared and there is no threat to campus, according to the latest UAlert.

"We are currently trying searching for who that blood belongs to," Hernandez said, adding that there have been no reports of gunshot victims from the nearby Banner — Health*University Medical Center.*

Officers have also closed off Helen St. in front of the Bio5 building between near Campbell Ave. and Cherry Ave.*

The UAPD issued a*UAlert about a report regarding shots fired near the Bio5 building on campus. The building is home to UA researchers and is in close proximity to the Banner*—*Health University Medical Center.*

UAPD*has released a tweet with*the description a person of interest:

*"Person of interest 5'10 male Chicago Bulls hat spiky hair white shirt khaki pants tan backpack call 911 if you see this man"

The courtyard between*Drachman Hall and the*Bioresearch Building is currently taped off from the public.SNIP...

But no, there's no reason for anyone to carry on campus.
I mean, it's not like anyone should be able to defend themselves or their loved ones, right?

 

[davidmcbeth]

The whole world is my campus ...

 

[The Trickster]

Sleeves ought to be rolled up high for this one, because campus carry has been a long time coming. With the Board of Regents possessing those dictatorial powers granted via ARS, and the mindset from the general public that everyone who goes to college is an immature 18-year-old hell raiser who abuses drugs and alcohol without end, any attempt at a revision of the law is going to be a challenge.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

We are trying to put together a legislative hearing on exactly this subject in Arizona. If you can contribute ideas/comments or want to speak at it, please PM me and I will involve you in the planning.

 

[solus]

We are trying to put together a legislative hearing on exactly this subject in Arizona. If you can contribute ideas/comments or want to speak at it, please PM me and I will involve you in the planning.

nicely said...

ipse

 

[325rto]

Thanks for starting this Rusty. I always enjoyed reading your posts on the Arizona open carry thread.

 

[azcdlfred]

and the mindset from the general public that everyone who goes to college is an immature 18-year-old hell raiser who abuses drugs and alcohol without end, any attempt at a revision of the law is going to be a challenge.

That plus the fact the virtually no one on campus (staff or student) will put down their bong or bottle long enough to testify at a hearing on a Campus Carry bill, which makes it difficult to sell the issue at the Capitol.

Another reality - The law would only affect those 21 or older. Subtracting everyone under 21 significantly reduces the universe of those who would be eligible to carry. Of those remaining, those who are not rights hating liberals that actually want to carry on campus could probably be counted on one hand.

It's a tough sell.
Fred

 

[Rusty Young Man]

Thanks for starting this Rusty. I always enjoyed reading your posts on the Arizona open carry thread.

Thanks. Happy to post my uneventful OC experiences, though I only post a fraction now.

That plus the fact the virtually no one on campus (staff or student) will put down their bong or bottle long enough to testify at a hearing on a Campus Carry bill, which makes it difficult to sell the issue at the Capitol.

Another reality - The law would only affect those 21 or older. Subtracting everyone under 21 significantly reduces the universe of those who would be eligible to carry. Of those remaining, those who are not rights hating liberals that actually want to carry on campus could probably be counted on one hand.

It's a tough sell.
Fred

Difficult to find vocal, open support among untenured staff out of fear of "repercussions" from the higher ups. Ran into the same issue (twice) while helping to start a Students for Concealed Carry on Campus chapter at the U of A.

Can't say I fault them (professors), seeing how the reaction to the Chic-Fil-A CEO's comments included trying to BAN Chic-Fil-A from the UofA campus for perceived "hate" (it's only Freedom of Speech if you agree with the leftist narrative of coddled feelings).

There is support, just haven't found a tenured professor. The Daily Wildcat actually ran a story about this some time back, let me see if I can find it.


*Clubs need a university staff member as an advisor for recognition. While recognition is not required to host a number of people and call it a club, this lack of recognition MAY wear down morale.

 

[Rusty Young Man]

Sleeves ought to be rolled up high for this one, because campus carry has been a long time coming. With the Board of Regents possessing those dictatorial powers granted via ARS, and the mindset from the general public that everyone who goes to college is an immature 18-year-old hell raiser who abuses drugs and alcohol without end, any attempt at a revision of the law is going to be a challenge.

Even the Campus Health surveys disagree with this biased narrative. Then again, we're talking about a university system where one of the presidents (now on the Fiesta Bowl committee or something) actually went ahead and called the students a bunch of idiots (though in kinder terms).

We are trying to put together a legislative hearing on exactly this subject in Arizona. If you can contribute ideas/comments or want to speak at it, please PM me and I will involve you in the planning.

Sending PM.

 

[Rusty Young Man]

2nd suspect from 27 April 2016 shooting in custody

http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article/2016/05/bio5-shooting-suspects-arrested-investigation-ongoing

A second suspect has been arrested in relation to last Wednesday's shooting at the Bio5 building on the UA campus.

Jahron Davis Francis, 29, turned himself in to the Pima County Jail late Tuesday morning where he was booked for aggravated robbery.

This second arrest comes after Monday’s arrest of Christopher Eugene, 29, on three felony charges including two counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and one count of aggravated robbery, according to a UAPD press release on Monday. UAPD, in conjunction with the Tucson Police Department SWAT team, arrested Eugene at his home without incident.

UAPD issued a UAlert about a report regarding shots fired near the BIO5 building on the night of April 27. The building is home to UA researchers and is in close proximity to the Banner — Health University Medical Center.

UAPD was able to gather evidence and determine Eugene’s involvement as the individual responsible for the shooting, according to the press release. Eugene and the victim have no affiliation with the university.

UAlert text messages and emails on the night of the shooting described a “person of interest” as a 5-foot-10 man wearing a Chicago Bulls hat with spiky hair, a white shirt, khaki pants and a tan backpack.

That person of interest was found at a local hospital later that night, according to a UAPD Clery Timely Warning Notice sent to all students the Thursday after the shooting.

Hmm. Let's look at this objectively:

Armed thug has no affiliation with U of A.
Armed thug is somehow able to go past the magical "No Weapons" signs.
Armed thug is not stopped by the magical force field provided by the aforementioned magical "No Weapons" signs.
Armed thug is ON the U of A campus with a firearm (loaded too).
Armed thug then shoots... etc.

Yep, all we need is more of those magical signs to protect us.:banghead:

 

[Rusty Young Man]

The2002 mass shooting at the UA

Figured I would post this one early on in this thread for the benefit of anyone who may look into the UA without knowing full well the consequences of the dangerous victim disarmament policy enacted by the Arizona Board of Tyrants... er... Regents.

I can only hope that history does not repeat itself, seeing as the ABOR is all too willing to forget it.

http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/arti...ators-recall-2002-college-of-nursing-shooting

“I remember hearing the dispatcher and, when she came up on the air, I could already tell by the tone of her voice that something was wrong,” said Barrera, now a sergeant and public information officer for UAPD.

Shots had been fired at the UA College of Nursing while students took their midterm exams that Monday morning. The gunman, Robert Stewart Flores Jr., a third-semester nursing student, had shot and killed three of his professors in the building north of Speedway Boulevard.

After shooting and killing Professor Robin Rogers in her second floor office, Flores moved to a fourth floor classroom. In front of a classroom full of students, he killed Barbara Monroe and Cheryl McGaffic, both nursing professors.

Flores dismissed the frightened students from their classroom and then killed himself at the scene with one of the five guns he had brought to campus.

From violence to chaos, those inside frantically ran from the scene.SNIP...

Firearms on campus? Not just one, but FIVE guns brought onto campus? And by the same murderer? Seems the failure of the magical "No Weapons" signs and the force field they create to keep guns off of campus is not contained to a single instance, but a TREND. Maybe not nationally, given how well "Gun-Free" zones work rolleyes, but definitely at the U of A.

Scary to think I've walked in the same halls, same elevators, same stairways, and probably even at the same tables as the killer, though more than a decade apart.

I feel for the victims and their families, for it was a policy which denied them the choice to arm themselves adequately for the defense of their lives. I met the widower of one of the victims of the 2002 mass killing at the UA College of Nursing. Sad to say, he STILL believed that a "Gun-Free" zone policy was a good one, despite his story and those of the victims being clear proof that "Gun-Free" zones aren't. Stated another way, "Gun-Free" zones are killing zones.:banghead:


Related articles (lots of the usual heartstring arguments and obfuscation by the antis, especially the second article);
http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/arti...he-2002-shooting-at-the-ua-college-of-nursing
http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article/2015/11/it-happened-here

 

[Rusty Young Man]

Opinions on safety from a former UAPD Chief Daykin

http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article/2007/04/police_ua_safer_since_shooting_five_years_ago

SNIP... [UAPD Chief Anthony] Daykin said the best way to remain a safe campus is to create a society that shows respect for others and put deterrents in place - whether it be through police or community activities.

James Van Arsdel, director of Residence Life, said there is no way for resident assistants to prepare or train for an event such as the Virginia Tech shooting.

""That's not something that we could prepare RAs for,"" he said. ""Since the 2002 shooting, police have established liaisons with the residence halls and reiterated the importance of the safety programs in place to RAs.""

Daykin said if a similar incident happened again on campus, students should call 911 and try to escape the area.

""If you can't escape the area, barricade yourself in a room if possible and notify others as you are leaving the area that contains the threat,"" he said. ""Above all, don't try to be a hero.""

Daykin said individuals who try to reason with the assailants usually get shot.

The UA campus is open to the public, with roughly 35,000 to 40,000 people passing through each day, Daykin said. Most people on campus carry a bag, and there is no way to tell for certain what might be inside.

Placing metal detectors at building entrances could be one way to provide more safety on campus, but it could be hard to implement, Daykin said.

""Where do you draw the line on what to make safe and what not to make safe?"" Daykin said.

Van Arsdel said he hasn't seen a need for metal detectors in residence halls because of the current safety procedures. Doors are locked 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and guests must be escorted by a resident at all times.

The bottom line is that campus safety starts with students and continues from there, Daykin said. Students need to note suspicious people, use a buddy system, let friends know where they are going and give an estimate as to when they will return.

""We know it can't be 100 percent safe, but we do the best we can,"" Daykin said.

 

[chrsjhnsn]

we almost had concealed campus carry in NV

Rumors say the Governor, a republican, quietly squashed it with back room deals.
I'm 56 and do not drink and I want to eventually go to college but may have to move to Texas or Utah to do so legally I guess.
I'm currently living in AZ and am seriously considering staying.
Is discrete concealed carry on campus a misdo or a felony?

 

[JoeSparky]

Rumors say the Governor, a republican, quietly squashed it with back room deals.
I'm 56 and do not drink and I want to eventually go to college but may have to move to Texas or Utah to do so legally I guess.
I'm currently living in AZ and am seriously considering staying.
Is discrete concealed carry on campus a misdo or a felony?

In Utah with a permit... it is a fashion statement!

 

[Rusty Young Man]

SNIP...
Difficult to find vocal, open support among untenured staff out of fear of "repercussions" from the higher ups. Ran into the same issue (twice) while helping to start a Students for Concealed Carry on Campus chapter at the U of A.

Can't say I fault them (professors), seeing how the reaction to the Chic-Fil-A CEO's comments included trying to BAN Chic-Fil-A from the UofA campus for perceived "hate" (it's only Freedom of Speech if you agree with the leftist narrative of coddled feelings).

There is support, just haven't found a tenured professor. The Daily Wildcat actually ran a story about this some time back, let me see if I can find it.


*Clubs need a university staff member as an advisor for recognition. While recognition is not required to host a number of people and call it a club, this lack of recognition MAY wear down morale.

Sorry to have completely dropped the ball on this one.

Here is the first attempt I was a part of. Spearheaded by Greg Collins, though ultimately failed attempt due to a lack of an advisor.

http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article/2012/02/concealed_carry_club_seeks_adviser

Concealed carry club seeks adviser

By Yara Askar | Published 02/06/12 1:27am

A club that supports the proposed law to allow guns on campus is struggling to find an adviser in its effort to become officially recognized by the UA.

Despite Gov. Jan Brewer’s decision to veto the gun bill, Sen. Ron Gould has revised it and introduced Senate Bill 1474 on Tuesday, which would stop universities from prohibiting concealed weapons on campus. Students for Concealed Carry on Campus at the UA, a pro-concealed carry club, is pushing to become a recognized club on campus in order to express its support for the law to allow firearms on campus, said Greg Collins, a public management and policy junior and the club’s president.

“I am not for shooting anyone or killing anyone. However, I still want to fight for the right to bear arms,” Collins said.

After contacting several representatives with the Navy and Air Force as well as professors and faculty members, Collins has been unable to find an adviser who is willing to put his or her name into the club. The individuals in the Reserve Officers’ Training Corps cannot take a stance on the issue, Collins said, and faculty members were opposed to taking a stance on the issue despite their personal opinions.

Even though students can start a club without an adviser for a certain amount of time, if they want to become an officially recognized club, they need an adviser, said Bryan Ponton, a journalism senior and executive vice president of Associated Students of the University of Arizona.
SNIP...

Even more revealing was the next article on the club efforts. :/

http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article/2012/09/concealed-carry-club-asua-recognition-091912

Pro-concealed carry club seeks recognition from ASUA
By Yara Askar | Published 09/18/12 10:47pm

Despite the struggles to find an adviser to support Students for Concealed Carry, the pro-concealed carry club has not yet given up in pursuing recognition.

The club has been trying to find an adviser since last spring in order to gain recognition from the Associated Students of the University of Arizona. In the past three weeks, more than 700 emails were sent out to faculty and staff, requesting an adviser.

Greg Collins, a public management and policy senior and organizer of the unrecognized club, said he plans to continue emailing faculty and staff despite missing the deadline for club recognition for the fall semester.

Several people have replied that they are not interested in supporting the club nor do they agree with the issue. While some have shown interest in the club’s message, they refused to become advisers for fear of losing their job by supporting an issue that most of the majority does not support, Collins added.

“The goal is to allow people to understand, educate and have intellectual discussions on the law,” Collins said.

John Ulreich, an English professor, initially contacted Collins with an interest in advising the club, but later declined after considering the issue he would be advocating.

“It’s politically problematic,” Ulreich said. “I don’t like guns and I don’t want them on campus, but as a matter of principle you should be able to form a club. But I couldn’t support him in that.”
SNIP...

Yeah, some folks "believe" in the principles of Rights and Free Speech... until those Rights and Free Speech go against their opinions.


And here is the link to the attempt for a Student 2nd Amendment Union (S2AU). It seemed to be a more neutral, educational type of club. Still couldn't find an advisor due to gun EDUCATION and not gun "control" being part of the mission statement.

http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/arti...mendment-club-to-educate-about-firearm-safety

A UA student is working on starting a non-partisan Second Amendment club.

Cale Lyford, an economics freshman, said he got the idea of starting Student Second Amendment Union about a week and a half ago. Lyford began to recruit students on the UA Mall and emailed the UA College Republicans and UA Young Democrats asking to promote the club at their meetings.

The club’s mission is to create a positive attitude toward firearms and educate people on how to properly use them, according to Lyford.

In order to reach this mission, club members would take trips to a shooting range, Lyford said, adding that through these trips, members would learn the importance of owning a gun and not being afraid of firearms.

“Second Amendment is traditionally a contentious issue and used between the two sides,” Lyford said. “But I think if your goal is education, then you’re going to want to attract people from both sides.”

Zoey Kotzambasis, president of UA College Republicans, said the idea of a club that trains its members how to shoot is “fantastic.” The College Republicans plan a trip to a shooting range every semester.

“A lot of the people who come with us have never shot before,” Kotzambasis said. “Once they learn how to use them, they realize it’s really not scary [like] how they thought it was, and I think it’s very empowering for a lot of our members.”

While he said he supports anyone trying to start a club on campus, Nick Mahon, president of UA Young Democrats, said education about guns should include facts about deaths caused by gunshots.

“If you’re going to have a club that explicitly talks in support of firearms and you’re not dealing with this kind of darker side of fireams, I’m still skeptical of it,” Mahon said.
SNIP...

No recognized, stand-alone Second-Amendment club of any sort came to fruition. The best we got was piggybacking off the College Republicans' range day ("Second Amendment Day"), held roughly once every semester, just before finals.

 

[Rusty Young Man]

Rumors say the Governor, a republican, quietly squashed it with back room deals.
I'm 56 and do not drink and I want to eventually go to college but may have to move to Texas or Utah to do so legally I guess.
I'm currently living in AZ and am seriously considering staying.
Is discrete concealed carry on campus a misdo or a felony?

To answer your question quickly: Misdemeanor, not felony, but would appear to be a misdemeanor TRESPASSING charge.

Long answer:
Why would it be a misdemeanor charge for TRESPASSING? Arizona Revised Statutes don't prohibit carry on campus per se, but give the Arizona Board of Tyrants, er, Regents the (abused) authority to make up their own rules on the property making up the Big Three public universities (Northern Arizona University up north, Arizona State University in the Tempe-Phoenix area, and the University of Arizona down here in Tucson).

One of their rules is to post the magical "No Weapons Allowed" signs around the perimeter of the campus as well as stickers on every door on campus. Never mind the fact that a rock (or an errant table) can easily crack the glass making up half of each door. :uhoh:

So even though you might not face any LEGAL charges, you should expect (at the very least) to be suspended, expelled, or otherwise reprimanded for proving the ABOR wrong and for challenging the authority of the petty overlords.

Thing is, the prospect of losing everything -- countless hours reading textbooks and online materials, countless sleepless nights studying for all the exams and quizzes, untold amounts of money or loans for tuition -- kind of puts a damper on wanting to carry on campus.

So the choice is yours:
Render yourself nearly defenseless in pursuit of a degree and better future, or choose to never be a victim and risk losing everything you put into the college experience.



"Remember: All I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more." - Morpheus to Neo, The Matrix (1999)


Trust, but verify:

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/03102.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS

Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions
SNIP...

N. For the purposes of this section:

1. "Contacted by a law enforcement officer" means a lawful traffic or criminal investigation, arrest or detention or an investigatory stop by a law enforcement officer that is based on reasonable suspicion that an offense has been or is about to be committed.

2. "Public establishment" means a structure, vehicle or craft that is owned, leased or operated by this state or a political subdivision of this state.

3. "Public event" means a specifically named or sponsored event of limited duration that is either conducted by a public entity or conducted by a private entity with a permit or license granted by a public entity. Public event does not include an unsponsored gathering of people in a public place.

4. "School" means a public or nonpublic kindergarten program, common school or high school.

5. "School grounds" means in, or on the grounds of, a school.

The Arizona Board of Tyrants
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/15/01601.htm&Title=15&DocType=ARS

15-1601. State universities; location; faculty powers

A. The Arizona board of regents shall maintain state universities at Flagstaff in Coconino county, at Tempe in Maricopa county and at Tucson in Pima county, and the universities are respectively designated northern Arizona university, Arizona state university and the university of Arizona. The board shall maintain an Arizona state university campus in western Maricopa county designated as Arizona state university west campus, which shall be identified as a separate budget unit in the general appropriations act. The board shall maintain an Arizona state university campus in eastern Maricopa county designated as Arizona state university east campus, which shall be identified as a separate budget unit in the general appropriations act. The board may establish and maintain other colleges and universities subject to legislative authority. Subject to review by the joint committee on capital review, the board may establish new campuses that are separate from any location in existence on July 1, 2007. The Arizona state university campus at Tempe shall provide administrative support for the Arizona state university campuses in western Maricopa county and in eastern Maricopa county.

B. The universities shall have colleges, schools and departments and give courses of study and academic degrees as the board approves. Subject to the responsibilities and powers of the board and the university presidents, the faculty members of the universities, through their elected faculty representatives, shall share responsibility for academic and educational activities and matters related to faculty personnel. The faculty members of each university, through their elected faculty representatives, shall participate in the governance of their respective universities and shall actively participate in the development of university policy.

The part that always stumps me is the part I bolded and underlined: "The board may establish and maintain other colleges and universities subject to legislative authority".

 

[davidmcbeth]

I would argue that one would need to be aware of the rule prior to being charged with trespassing.

ie .. they "catch you"...they would either a) prove you knew of the rule (and just because its a rule is not enough) or b) allow you to correct the previously unknown rule prior to claiming that you are trespassing.

Of course,,,disclaimer, such rules violate your RKBA. period.

 

[Rusty Young Man]

I would argue that one would need to be aware of the rule prior to being charged with trespassing.

ie .. they "catch you"...they would either a) prove you knew of the rule (and just because its a rule is not enough) or b) allow you to correct the previously unknown rule prior to claiming that you are trespassing.

Of course,,,disclaimer, such rules violate your RKBA. period.

Problem is, you're required to sign (and perhaps read) a contract with the ABOR saying that you will follow all their guidelines while attending the PRIVATE institutions (yep, the ABOR calls the taxpayer-funded universities PRIVATE).

Don't know if I can find my old copy of it, but it does mention weapons and firearms in there, as well as the fact that they are "prohibited" anywhere on university property.

 

[chrsjhnsn]

thanks for the quick replies

Problem is, you're required to sign (and perhaps read) a contract with the ABOR saying that you will follow all their guidelines while attending the PRIVATE institutions (yep, the ABOR calls the taxpayer-funded universities PRIVATE).

Don't know if I can find my old copy of it, but it does mention weapons and firearms in there, as well as the fact that they are "prohibited" anywhere on university property.

coming from NV, where it is a felony, this feels like a breath of fresh air.
So, If I indeed go to "kawlege" someday while I live in AZ I will simply conceal and prevaricate.
NV is sinking into californication, i hope we can prevent that here