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No More Open Carry at Golden Corral?

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
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Valhalla
Didn't mean to violate rules. I didn't realize that calling someone not on this board a name was a violation of rules.

To clarify I never said anything, or objected to, a property owners ability to set rules. My objection is that this person said they approved and supported something but that they would act in direct contradiction to their belief if they were faced with a differing opinion. His stance has nothing to do with satisfying a broad clientele. His answer is a non answer and was given in the hopes that he wouldn't lose any business from either side.

Always better to take the high road whether posting here, dealing with those who do not display the conviction of of their beliefs, or the outright antis.

Take notice that the non-registered users will out number the "members" on-line by as much as 10 to 1 - we are under a public microscope. We hope to be viewed as decent, reasonable law abiding citizens who can be quoted without fear of tainting the entire barrel.

Please don't take it personally. While it was a redirect, it was definitely not a one-bridge-too-far event.
 

mahkagari

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Take notice that the non-registered users will out number the "members" on-line by as much as 10 to 1 - we are under a public microscope. We hope to be viewed as decent, reasonable law abiding citizens who can be quoted without fear of tainting the entire barrel.

Can we still say "Wally-world"?
 

JamesB

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
703
Location
Lakewood, Colorado, USA
Would probably request a refund for all in my party if polite conversation explaining did not work. Have never had that specific problem in that exact manner though.

Fair isn't the question to me - what is most effective is.

Sounds a little like Cracker Barrel to me. Pretty close.
 

livetrapper13

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Messages
50
Location
Colorado Springs
....he simply had to do what was necessary to make a profit....


There lies the crucial point. He is in a bad situation whenever a customer complains about someone OCing. While he may be pro 2A, he still has to make a decision based on how his company will profit, not on his personal beliefs. Otherwise he would have gone out of business a long time ago (imagine the owner asking somebody with a Raiders jersey on to leave because he's a Broncos fan. However, if somebody complained thats a whole different story). My point is he is just trying to do what is best for his company (income wise) and to make money. Nobody can blame him for that.
 

Beau

Regular Member
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Dec 6, 2007
Messages
672
Location
East of Aurora, Colorado, USA
There lies the crucial point. He is in a bad situation whenever a customer complains about someone OCing. While he may be pro 2A, he still has to make a decision based on how his company will profit, not on his personal beliefs. Otherwise he would have gone out of business a long time ago (imagine the owner asking somebody with a Raiders jersey on to leave because he's a Broncos fan. However, if somebody complained thats a whole different story). My point is he is just trying to do what is best for his company (income wise) and to make money. Nobody can blame him for that.

Manager:
I spoke with the person you notified me about. They are legal to carry their firearm. Enjoy the rest of your meal.
 

JamesB

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
703
Location
Lakewood, Colorado, USA
There lies the crucial point. He is in a bad situation whenever a customer complains about someone OCing. While he may be pro 2A, he still has to make a decision based on how his company will profit, not on his personal beliefs. Otherwise he would have gone out of business a long time ago (imagine the owner asking somebody with a Raiders jersey on to leave because he's a Broncos fan. However, if somebody complained thats a whole different story). My point is he is just trying to do what is best for his company (income wise) and to make money. Nobody can blame him for that.

So if complain about someone wearing a Raider's jersey...wait, what?
 

rushcreek2

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
909
Location
Colorado Springs. CO
Manager:
I spoke with the person you notified me about. They are legal to carry their firearm. Enjoy the rest of your meal.

Therein lies the answer. The wearing of a holstered handgun is legal in Colorado. The Kalifornia, New Jersey, et al immigrants/visitors need to respect Colorado law and culture.

That having been said - I would submit for consideration the prospect that , given the ongoing ruckus generated regarding Starbucks respect for the right to bear arms, that a little what ? - subtlety, stealth, discretion ??? - employed by wearing an open sweater, light jacket, vest, whatever with the intent of somewhat (but not entirely) "shielding" the tender eyes of those individuals who are apparently "alarmed" by the sight of a holstered firearm might mitigate this matter.

I spend a good deal of time (6 months of the year)in Texas where we all know OC IS GENERALLY "ILLEGAL". Since I am in Texas during the winter it is comfortable for me to wear a sweater. sport coat, jacket which essentially obscures -if not conceals - my holstered handgun. Never had a problem yet.

Perhaps while sharing space in relatively close quarters with other customers we should make some effort to obscure observation of the object that they find so offensive, or downright threatening ?

This is one of those areas where I am inclined to part company with the "notorious" display style, and defer to the low-profile style. Perhaps 2-D is preferable to 3-D display in such close shared space environments, Just a thought.

I have this theory - that such folks made uncomfortable by the sight of a holstered handgun actualy are reacting to a primordial survival impulse that makes them a bit uncomfortable - in essence, your handgun trumps their habitual unmannerly and anti-social instincts.
 

livetrapper13

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Messages
50
Location
Colorado Springs
So if complain about someone wearing a Raider's jersey...wait, what?


Ok, bad example. lol.

I was simply trying to say the owner (or manager or whoever) has to put his opinion aside and think of how the company would profit, regardless of his personal opinion. I guess that example sounded better in my head. lol.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
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Valhalla
---snip---

Perhaps while sharing space in relatively close quarters with other customers we should make some effort to obscure observation of the object that they find so offensive, or downright threatening ?

This is one of those areas where I am inclined to part company with the "notorious" display style, and defer to the low-profile style. Perhaps 2-D is preferable to 3-D display in such close shared space environments, Just a thought.

I have this theory - that such folks made uncomfortable by the sight of a holstered handgun actualy are reacting to a primordial survival impulse that makes them a bit uncomfortable - in essence, your handgun trumps their habitual unmannerly and anti-social instincts.

Understand your message and must temper that with where you reside.

A major point of consideration for OC is "normalizing" such through the regular daily exercise of that method of carry wherever and whenever possible. One cannot hope to reach that level by hiding it or causing the defensive tool to be difficult to see.

OC is by its very definition "open" - couple that with a non-aggressive, friendly demeanor and you have a proven game winner.
 

rushcreek2

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
909
Location
Colorado Springs. CO
Stilll - when we are striving to re-introduce a formerly acceptable norm into a society that has been brain-washed, and neutered for decades - a little discretion may be in order.

Case in point - Naked lady strolls into Golden Corral........................(reaction???)

Lady in cute ( or not so cute) bikini strolls into Golden Corral.........?????

VERY attractive lady enters with tight mini-skirt, and halter tops .......... hmmmm???

Service with a smile...???

My point is - butting heads on private premises at point of sale ($$$$) - is non- productive.

I continue to stress that a little gradual desensitization and moderation will achieve the desired result -whereas head-on confrontation generally is met by an equally overt negative response reaction. I.E. ONE complaint negates a constitutionally protected exercise of a right.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
---snip----

My point is - butting heads on private premises at point of sale ($$$$) - is non- productive.

I continue to stress that a little gradual desensitization and moderation will achieve the desired result -whereas head-on confrontation generally is met by an equally overt negative response reaction. I.E. ONE complaint negates a constitutionally protected exercise of a right.

I agree that "butting heads" is non-productive - never suggested that approach.

Being courtious and pleasant is always better. Taking my business elsewhere is an option too.

We have turned more than a few establishments to be at least neutral by our conduct, patience and responsible demeanor. OCers in VA are welcome in a vast majority of businesses - that is so because of those that have led the way.

What works for you is what you should do.
 

JamesB

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
703
Location
Lakewood, Colorado, USA
Ok, bad example. lol.

No. I think it's a great example.

"I am afraid of the man with the gun, please ask him to leave."
"My manhood is cheapened by that man wearing a pink shirt, please ask him to leave."
"My daughter does not need to see a man's bear arms and wearing a t-shirt, please ask him to leave."
"I refuse to eat in a resturaunt that will serve someone who is wearing sandals, please ask him to leave."
"Who let that green car park in the space I wanted? Make them move. Don't you know who I think I am?"

In the past, I have heard some strange customers complain about far stranger things than any of these. Do you actually ask the person to leave or just call the loony bin to see if you have located a possible runaway?

If the resturant didn't post it, they must not have wanted to deal with it.
 

rushcreek2

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
909
Location
Colorado Springs. CO
OK then -

"The customer at that table over there is exercising his/her constitutionally protected right to be armed for the purpose of defense of his/her person in case of criminal confrontation. His/her peaceful wearing of a holstered handgun while enjoying a meal, and threatening no one is authorized under Colorado law. ".
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Howdy Folks!
I'd like to go back to what James B. was saying, and consider.... once that door is opened, where does it stop?
Is it now the rubicon for dinner?

"Hey... that guy is wearing a Ron Paul campaign button. I refuse to be subjected to that sort of thing. Ask him to remove it."

"That guy over there is wearing red. That's the gang colors of the bloods! Get him out of here, would'ja?"

"That group of people are speaking in a language other than English! Ask them to leave, because I think they might be terrorists!"

Such examples may seem absurd, but if you've kept up with news from the airline industry, such things have happened there!
"I'm sure those guys are Moslems. Get them off the plane!"
Not making any sort of disparaging remark here, but giving an example of something that actually happened aboard a couple of planes before takeoff.

We talk a great deal about the 2nd Amendment, as we ought. But then again, what use is the 2nd Amendment? Why does it exist? Many say it is to protect the 1st Amendment:
------------------------------------
" Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
------------------------------------

The right of free speech permits the complaining individual to speak their mind. Beyond that, there is no Constitutional provision against being offended! But along with the right of free speech comes freedom of expression. Artwork is considered free speech, ergo mostly protected. Folks in our society wear tee shirts with 'obscene' words of images, and that is also protected as free speech. If it were not so, they'd get arrested for wearing them in public. Freedom of speech and expression are manifest when Neo-Nazis have their parades or public gatherings. They have that right, regardless how offensive it may be to most of us. And that right is enshrined in the 1st Amendment. The really ugly demonstrations held by Westboro Baptist Church, espcially at funerals of slain soldiers returning from theatres of war, rankle most of us beyond outrage. Yet, their freedom of speech is also protected. They carry signs with the most disgusting slogans, and it is protected. But so are the folks who turn out with guns on their hips to stand between them and grieving loved ones. And the folks from Westboro? They proclaim their freedom of free speech and free expression while demanding something be done about those open carriers who block their hateful message. This is known, in polite parlance, as hypocrisy!

But it is preferable to the alternatives:

When only cops have guns, it's called a "police state". -- Robert A. Heinlein

"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action, according to our will, within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others."
-- Thomas Jefferson
(i.e., our right to open carry is not abdicated by another's right to bitch about it!)

"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good" -- George Washington

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188

No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it. -- 16 Am. Jur. Sec. 177 late 2d, Sec 256
(i.e., We obey the laws before us, and our right to open carry is defined by Constitution. It ought not be constrained by someone who 'feels' offended by our exercise of liberty!)

"Taking my gun away because I might shoot someone is like cutting my tongue out because I might yell `Fire!' in a crowded theater." -- Peter Venetoklis

"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." -- John F. Kennedy

The point I am trying to arrive at, perhaps circuitously, is a simple one.
As Kennedy said, we open carry because it is our right! It is an expression of our freedom, that we proclaim when we engage our daily life exercising that very freedom. Those who find offense, may exercise their freedom to denounce it. But they have no right to exercise their opinion, or force it, upon another. Should we permit our freedom to be infringed by the petty tirant, whether a public servant or private individual, we yield our liberty to our own shame. We ought not bestow the blessings of our commerce on such private petty tirants, but exercise our right to denounce such unAmerican behavior and take our business elsewhere. We ought never surrender our right, not for anybody! Once we commence down that road, the path forward is perilous, and liberty wanes.

That's my humble opinion.
Shun 'em, and let them know why!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Nicely said M-Taliesin,

Hello Randy!
Thank you kindly sir! I got on a roll there (perhaps a bagel, possibly a danish, I dunno!) and just sorta poured it out onto the page.

Gotta watch out for that. There are some folks around here think I might be verbose!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 
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