MS-13 Gang

[imperialism2024]

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captainamerica wrote:

Do gangs like this retaliate if a law abiding citizen were to shoot them in a life threatening and/or violent attack? We have a number of gangs (or so I've heard and read) around the KC-metro area and I've often wondered what the truth is about any revenge factor; let alone in other parts of the country.

Well, according to the film Death Sentence...

:shock:

I don't really know. I think after any self-defense shooting there's a decent chance for retaliation, but that's in my entirely unprofessional and non-referenced opinion.

But remember, feel safe knowing that criminals obviously don't carry automatic weapons, so that's why you can't carry any either. :cuss:

 

[BrokenR1]

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longwatch wrote:

Enough of the vigilante death squad talk, its really not funny.

No it's not, however it's necessary in some instances.



Just as bad as the gangs are some of the guerilla groups. But at least they aren't spreading as bad as the gangs do.

 

[crotalus01]

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"But remember, feel safe knowing that criminals obviously don't carry automatic weapons, so that's why you can't carry any either."

Actually it is perfectly legal for a law abiding citizento possess/carry automatic weapons in most states provided it is NFA registered and the tax has been paid.

 

[Beau]

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deepdiver wrote:

I watched that show and found it horrific that we allow such cretins to not just exist and function, but actually flourish in our country. On the one hand, it seems like there is such an easy solution - just make gang membership illegal and if you are caught with gang colors or tattoos or tagging gang graffitti, or flashing gang signs, etc you go directly to jail. But then there is that darn constitution allowing freedom of assembly and speech. And you get into the whole thought crime issue with the first amendment if you punish gang graffitti differently than any other vandalism. So the solution is not easy at all.

Yet another case where our freedoms are used against us. Although there was a time when they such gangs couldn't flourish because the community would take matters into their own hands and stop such behavior. It becomes a fine line and slippery slope when it comes to that. I wish I knew of an easy solution.

I can't believe this comment came from you.

Hypothetical, gang membership is illegal. Your out with five or six of your friends. Your walking through a park and someone doesn't like a look one of your party gave them. So this person calls the police to report suspected gang activity. Officer arrives, looks like a gang to him, everyone goes to jail. Look two of them were even wearing the same colored t-shirt. They are gang members.

Now say some or all of you happened to be in legal possesion of firearms. The are a lot of possible outcomes.

Your right it's not an easy solution. And as gangs like MS-13 grow there are gonna be demands for some type of action to be taken. Rough times ahead.

When I was in middle school two police officers came in to my class and removed me to a private room. They stood me against the wall and took my picture with a polaroid camera. I was told that I was being entered into a gang task force photo book...Why? Because the kid that lived across the street from me claimed he was a crip and we hung out every now and then.

 

[thnycav]

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Check out these videos about MI 13

http://blutube.policeone.com/Clip.aspx?key=0E9C461D0A73B60A

http://blutube.policeone.com/Clip.aspx?key=404147C6CE1D73B4

 

[TheEggman]

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MS-13 is alive and doing quite well throughout NOVA. An associate in Spottsy told me that they were actively recruiting at several schools. (And they are actually smart enough to not wear their 'colors' when doing so.)

FWIW - the vast majority of members are illegals. OOPS SORRY - I DIDN'T MEAN TO OFFEND - I Meant 'Undocumented Workers.'

Egg

 

[Texaschl]

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We just started to get MS 13 in the area and they are some bad guys for sure, they are trying to take over the drug trade with cheaper and more dangerous drugs. They are working the streets for the young Latin males to do there biz, and have had a few shootouts with other gangs, the local news reports them some days and have got most of the story wrong as they state they are only taking out other gang members.



now I have to be in the NOVA area in march for a school so I can go and chase the bail skippers all over the states. so how bad is it in the Stafford /Prince Williams counties, I was wondering whats it like ot OC in these counties??

 

[Beau]

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The news doesn't list SC as having MS-13 members there. I have personally seen them in the Charleston area.

The news does say that IL has one of the fastest MS-13 growth rates. I wonder when their going to start filling into IN. I havn't seen any here in Indianapolis yet.

 

[protector84]

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I can't believe this comment came from you.

Hypothetical, gang membership is illegal. Your out with five or six of your friends. Your walking through a park and someone doesn't like a look one of your party gave them. So this person calls the police to report suspected gang activity. Officer arrives, looks like a gang to him, everyone goes to jail. Look two of them were even wearing the same colored t-shirt. They are gang members.

Now say some or all of you happened to be in legal possesion of firearms. The are a lot of possible outcomes.

Your right it's not an easy solution. And as gangs like MS-13 grow there are gonna be demands for some type of action to be taken. Rough times ahead.

The problem with cops is they tend to forget something called the Constitution. You have the right to walk down the street with your friends, the right to all have guns strapped on to your sides, and to wear whatever colors you want. In fact, you are also allowed to form your own gang, club, or whatever you wish to call it. It is protected free speech and free association as guaranteed by the First Amendment. When people refer to the problems of gangs, however, obviously they are referring to gangs that are engaged in illegal activities. However, to simply have your own association is simple freedom of speech and the freedom to peaceably assemble.

If you are in a public place (not private property) with a group of people and are harrassed by the cops accusing you of gang activity, I would tell them you are doing nothing illegal, ask for their names and badge numbers, explain to them that you have nothing to say to them until you speak with a lawyer, ask them if they are detaining you, and if they are not, then refuse to talk to them and continue on your business. Then file a compliant with the internal affairs division. If they arrest you, you need to sue them for making a false arrest.

I have had my share of illegal and harrassing encounters with police. By refusing to talk to them, mentioning a lawyer, asking for their badge numbers (while still being professional and courteous of course), it seems to end the encounter without being arrested and usually ends it faster than if you play their games.

When I was in middle school two police officers came in to my class and removed me to a private room. They stood me against the wall and took my picture with a polaroid camera. I was told that I was being entered into a gang task force photo book...Why? Because the kid that lived across the street from me claimed he was a crip and we hung out every now and then.

In that case, the best thing to have done would be to have told your parents. Then have your parents file a lawsuit against the police department for violating your Constitutional rights to privacy, interrogration of a minor without parental consent, and unlawful intimidation and harrassment of a child. Then file a motion to get the court toorder all illegally obtained evidence (such as your picture taken) tobe destroyed.

In reality, most of us don't do all these things because they are a big hassle time and money wise. But imagine if every time a good citizen is harrassed by the police, he or she takes action what effect that would have on the system. Either the police would be forced to actually focus on real crime or the city/county/state would be so tired of losing money due to bad cops that they would fire them, we'd have less bad cops on the streets, and the rest of us would be better off.

Needless to say, the way to reduce crime is not more cops on the street but more armed citizens. If every neighborhood block set up a volunteer neighborhood watch program where each person would volunteer say 4 hours per week patrolling their block while open carrying so that 24/7 there was always one of your own on the block keeping watch, not only would it make things extremely difficult for criminals, it would nearly make the police obsolete and probably would save taxpayers unbelievable amounts of money.

 

[TheEggman]

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Texaschl wrote:

... now I have to be in the NOVA area in march for a school so I can go and chase the bail skippers all over the states. so how bad is it in the Stafford /Prince Williams counties, I was wondering whats it like ot OC in these counties??

I've never had a hassle O.C. in Stafford/Stafford Co. and I spend most weekends there. The only comments I've received are either positive encounters or educational opportunities. (How do I get a CC permit, I'm thinking of getting a gun at home, what should I get, where do you shoot, etc.)

The (very much off the record) attitude of at least one Stafford Co. deputy that I've spoken to is that (at least he) isn't going to get too upset or concerned when the 'body' lying at the feet of a law-abiding citizen turns out to be covered with gang tattoos.

O.C. attitudes even in liberal strongholds such as Alexandria are not too bad and getting better.

Given the ratio of 'good ol boys' to sheep (i.e. pickup trucks to BMWs, at least for the moment) I wouldn't be too concerned.

Best, stay safe, welcome, and enjoy your time in the area.

Egg

 

[Texaschl]

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Thank you for the help and I think I will be OCing while I am in NOVA and its good to see there open minded .



thanks Eggman

 

[deepdiver]

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Beau wrote:

deepdiver wrote:

I watched that show and found it horrific that we allow such cretins to not just exist and function, but actually flourish in our country. On the one hand, it seems like there is such an easy solution - just make gang membership illegal and if you are caught with gang colors or tattoos or tagging gang graffitti, or flashing gang signs, etc you go directly to jail. But then there is that darn constitution allowing freedom of assembly and speech. And you get into the whole thought crime issue with the first amendment if you punish gang graffitti differently than any other vandalism. So the solution is not easy at all.

Yet another case where our freedoms are used against us. Although there was a time when they such gangs couldn't flourish because the community would take matters into their own hands and stop such behavior. It becomes a fine line and slippery slope when it comes to that. I wish I knew of an easy solution.

I can't believe this comment came from you.

Hypothetical, gang membership is illegal. Your out with five or six of your friends. Your walking through a park and someone doesn't like a look one of your party gave them. So this person calls the police to report suspected gang activity. Officer arrives, looks like a gang to him, everyone goes to jail. Look two of them were even wearing the same colored t-shirt. They are gang members.

Now say some or all of you happened to be in legal possesion of firearms. The are a lot of possible outcomes.

Your right it's not an easy solution. And as gangs like MS-13 grow there are gonna be demands for some type of action to be taken. Rough times ahead.

When I was in middle school two police officers came in to my class and removed me to a private room. They stood me against the wall and took my picture with a polaroid camera. I was told that I was being entered into a gang task force photo book...Why? Because the kid that lived across the street from me claimed he was a crip and we hung out every now and then.

I agree with you, Beau. My point was that while it SEEMS like an easy solution, because of things I pointed out and which you and others added to, the solution is not easy at all and any superficially easy solution are rife with opportunity for abuse. I was not by any means advocating the highlighted portion as the actual, realistic, viable solution.