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March on Washington 07-04-2013

Gil223

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Please correct me if I'm wrong, (and also further explanation of how to legally gain standing ,,, Lawsuits?) but I interpret your answer as meaning that if an individual believes that they are falsely accused &/or charged (without having actually been detained in jail) then they shall follow the natural recourse of taking it to the judicial system in order to resolve said "Accusation" against the common citizenery ?

I hope this makes sense.
It sounds like getting arrested may be the quickest, easiest and least expensive way to gain "standing":
Standing: The legal right to initiate a lawsuit. To do so, a person must be sufficiently affected by the matter at hand, and there must be a case or controversy that can be resolved by legal action.There are three requirements for Article III standing: (1) injury in fact, which means an invasion of a legally protected interest that is (a) concrete and particularized, and (b) actual or imminent, not conjectural or hypothetical; (2) a causal relationship between the injury and the challenged conduct, which means that the injury fairly can be traced to the challenged action of the defendant, and has not resulted from the independent action of some third party not before the court; and (3) a likelihood that the injury will be redressed by a favorable decision, which means that the prospect of obtaining relief from the injury as a result of a favorable ruling is not too speculative. (all emphases added by myself)
Other than getting arrested, a class action suit might work for the benefit of "the common citizenry" if the requirements of (1), (2) and (3) above are met, but it might take a more egregious action on the part of the government to support such a suit. (1¢+1¢) Pax...
 
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SFCRetired

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>implying the desire for freedom makes someone a nutjob

Desiring and working for freedom, in and of itself, does not make one a "nutjob". The manner in which one works for freedom may, depending on the manner, qualify one for a lovely wraparound sports coat.

What Kokesh is doing with this march, and remember that he has engaged in a number of, to me, questionable activities, has the distinct possibility of getting people seriously hurt or killed. All it would take is one trigger-happy or careless individual on either side.

I would not go within a hundred miles of that area on that day.
 

JmE

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If they deny those citizens the exercise of their rights to keep and bear arms in DC then each citizen will have standing to bring suit. Perhaps if government tells them that they cannot march, it might be prudent to then ask if people are allowed to enter the city individually whilst armed. If the answer is no and government is willing to prevent the exercise of the individual's right then each individual should have standing. Alternatively, the group could sue as a group. Either way, it fits all three criteria for standing, IMHO.
 

WalkingWolf

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Desiring and working for freedom, in and of itself, does not make one a "nutjob". The manner in which one works for freedom may, depending on the manner, qualify one for a lovely wraparound sports coat.

What Kokesh is doing with this march, and remember that he has engaged in a number of, to me, questionable activities, has the distinct possibility of getting people seriously hurt or killed. All it would take is one trigger-happy or careless individual on either side.

I would not go within a hundred miles of that area on that day.

I am more concerned with nutjobs who make threats, and speak of violence no matter where they display that speech. A percentage of these bat crapola crazy people follow through on their violent fantasies, and most of the momentum from the antis is inspired by these violent nutjobs who shoot up theaters, assassinate people like MLK, shoot up schools and so on. I am not a bit worried about Kokesh.
 
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eye95

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I don't believe anybody is questioning the constitutionality of such an event. The main question is the insufficiency of wisdom in the stated physical mechanics of the march. It has been established as a parade without a permit, with long guns and ammunition, and somewhere in the insane rhetoric it has the proclaimed intent to "overthrow the government"...

I am questioning the constitutionality of such an event. If it were merely the carry of firearms into DC, breaking its (IMO) unconstitutional laws, then it would be (IMO) constitutional. However, when its organizer proclaims that the march is an armed revolt with the stated purpose of overthrowing the government, then it flies in the face of the Constitution. It is definitely in the spirit of the Declaration of Independence, but the folks who signed that document knew they were committing treason and pledged their lives and fortunes to make the most of that treason.

Thank God for them.

However, if anyone really feels that we are in a WITCOHE moment, then they should be willing to admit that they are joining in on a rebellion against the government and that they are willing to suffer the consequences of a failed rebellion, that they are willing to commit treason, that they are willing to pledge their lives and fortunes to make the most of that treason.

If we ever arrive at a WITCOHE moment, I will do so. We are not there yet, so I will boldly stand up and defend our Constitution, as flawed as it is currently implemented, and decry this unconstitutional revolt.
 

Thundar

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One does not have to be arrested to gain standing.

You are right. Mr. Palmer actually filed four years ago and there is no dispute that he has standing. Cross motions for summary judgment by Mr. Palmer and DC DC. Not at all a complicated matter. Four years, no action by the court, even though the Chief Justice of the SUpreme Court intervened and appointed a new judge at the 2 year point because it was taking too long!

Link to OCDO thread here: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...t-filed-for-carry-in-the-District-of-Columbia


I would be far more likely to join the march if it were to go directly outside the DC Federal District COurt and chant justice delayed = justice denied.
 
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BB62

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...However, when its organizer proclaims that the march is an armed revolt with the stated purpose of overthrowing the government, then it flies in the face of the Constitution...
(my italics) I admit I haven't continued to read all of the posts in this thread, but can you provide a link to where the organizer did so?

Thank you.
 

eye95

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(my italics) I admit I haven't continued to read all of the posts in this thread, but can you provide a link to where the organizer did so?

Thank you.

If you have trouble finding it, I will locate it again, but I am kinda pressed for time at the moment. Search for the Alex Jones interview with Kokesh. I transcribed two word-for-word quotations from Kokesh in this interview and put them in my signature. Someone else here posted a link to an article that concatenated the two quotes into one. I couldn't believe that Kokesh would say that--even if he meant it. I asked for evidence that he actually said the words, but none was forthcoming. So I researched it myself, found the Alex Jones interview, and heard Kokesh say the words, albeit at two distinct points in the interview.

It's a long interview. In an earlier post, I give the timestamps of each quotation. Like I said, I'll look it up again if you can't find it, but I think you will find it quickly.

BTW, Jones tried to get Kokesh to back down from the words, but he would not.


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Grapeshot

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One does not have to be arrested to gain standing.

Standing, sometimes referred to as standing to sue, is the name of the federal law doctrine that focuses on whether a prospective plaintiff can show that some personal legal interest has been invaded by the defendant. It is not enough that a person is merely interested as a member of the general public in the resolution of the dispute. The person must have a personal stake in the outcome of the controversy.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/standing

Standing, or locus standi, is capacity of a party to bring suit in court. State laws define standing. At the heart of these statutes is the requirement that plaintiffs have sustained or will sustain direct injury or harm and that this harm is redressable.
At the Federal level, legal actions cannot be brought simply on the ground that an individual or group is displeased with a government action or law. Federal courts only have constitutional authority to resolve actual disputes (see Case or Controversy). Only those with enough direct stake in an action or law have "standing" to challenge it. A decision that a party does not have sufficient stake to sue will commonly be put in terms of the party's lacking "standing". For Supreme Court decisions focusing on the "standing" issue, see, e.g., County of Riverside v. McLaughlin, 500 U.S. 44 (1991), Northeastern Fla. Chapter of the Associated Gen. Contractors v. City of Jacksonville, 508 U.S. 656 (1993) and Lujan v. Defenders of Wildlife, 504 U.S. 555 (1992).
http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/standing


There are three constitutional requirements to prove standing:

  1. Injury: The plaintiff must have suffered or imminently will suffer injury. The injury must not be abstract and must be within the zone of interests meant to be regulated or protected under the statutory or constitutional guarantee in question.
  2. Causation: The injury must be reasonably connected to the defendant’s conduct.
  3. Redressability: A favorable court decision must be likely to redress the injury.
http://definitions.uslegal.com/s/standing/
 

MamabearCali

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I am not as eloquent or as up on my law of " standing"..... However my South Texas parents told me to never tickle a scorpion under the tail....lest you get stung. To me this looks like a fools crusade. The laws may be 100% wrong in DC......and I think they are.....but this just has disaster written all over it. It would be far better to carry empty holsters and signs in protest, rather than get yourself bagged on a felony charge.
 

eye95

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It seems to be getting harder to find. If I were a conspiracy theorist...

Anyway, here is a link to a page with the youtube video embedded: http://samuel-warde.com/2013/05/alex-jones-interviews-libertarian-radio-host/

Why this video is hard to find on youtube itself is beyond me, but I am not wearing my tinfoil, and a certain radio show host may be blocking my mental ability to search youtube.


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JmE

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Right, standing isn't generally used (AFAIK) for criminal appeals because the accused obviously has "standing". That's what is implied here. I cannot appeal a criminal conviction that has not occurred to me. I can't file an appeal over a criminal conviction that happened to someone else.

To bring lawsuit, I would have to, at minimum (AFAIK), go there, be denied and [/u]possibly[/u] arrested. (Although, being denied alone ought be enough.)

If I'm arrested then I get a go at them in the criminal process and then in the civil process.
 

sharkey

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I'm back only to post a warning.

This event has gone from peaceful open carry march to revolution.

The event is now titled "THE FINAL AMERICAN REVOLUTION"

Outside the possibility that the FB account was hacked, which I doubt, I urge anyone who was joining this march to stand down.

You can count me in this group, "While some timid souls will say that it is too early".

Yes, eye95, you were right. Enjoy your forethought. :)

That is all.



When a government has repeatedly and deliberately failed to follow its own laws, violated the fundamental human rights of its citizens, threatened the sanctity of a free press, created institutions intended to eliminate privacy of communication, waged war at the behest of special interests that threatens the public safety, killed hundreds of children with drone strikes, imprisoned and destroyed the lives of countless individuals for victimless crimes, stifled economic opportunity to maintain the dominance of the financial elite, stolen from the people through an absurd system of taxation and inflation, sold future generations into debt slavery, and abused its power to suppress political opposition, it is unfit to exist and it becomes the duty of the people to alter or abolish that government by whatever means necessary to secure liberty and ensure peace. A new American revolution is long overdue. This revolution has been brewing in the hearts and minds of the people for many years, but this Independence Day, it shall take a new form as the American Revolutionary Army will march on each state capital to demand that the governors of these 50 states immediately initiate the process of an orderly dissolution of the federal government through secession and reclamation of federally held property. Should one whole year pass from this July 4th while the crimes of this government are allowed to continue, we may have passed the point at which non-violent revolution becomes impossible. The time to sit idly by has passed, to remain neutral is to be complicit, just doing your job is not an excuse, and the line in the sand has been drawn between we the people, and the criminals in Washington, DC. While some timid souls will say that it is too early, that we can solve this problem through democratic means provided by government, that current levels of taxation are reasonable for the services provided, and that the crimes of this government are merely a tolerable nuisance; it may already be too late. While there is risk in drastic action, the greater danger lies in allowing this government to continue unchallenged. So if you are content with the status quo, stay home, get fat, watch the fireworks from a safe distance, and allow this Independence Day to pass like any other. But if you see as we see, and feel as we feel, we will see you on the front lines of freedom on July 4th 2013 for this: The Final American Revolution.

Not hacked.

[video=youtube;vXjPoTc1bk0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXjPoTc1bk0[/video]
 
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joanie

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march on each state capital to demand that the governors of these 50 states immediately initiate the process of an orderly dissolution of the federal government through secession and reclamation of federally held property.

Yes, that seems reasonable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL0yoH0oswo

No more income tax, end the federal reserve, get rid of DHS and the TSA. Repeal NDAA, Lift the restrictions that force the economy overseas, bring back the electric car, round up the criminals in government and put them in prison. Get the softkill out of our food, water, and medicine.

And better, this is something we all can do, without guns. Just go to your state capital on the 4th of July and demand this of our governors. Our nation should be ran by us, not by a forign banking cartell through a farce presidency executive branch.
 

Grapeshot

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march on each state capital to demand that the governors of these 50 states immediately initiate the process of an orderly dissolution of the federal government through secession and reclamation of federally held property.
--snipped--
No more income tax, end the federal reserve, get rid of DHS and the TSA. Repeal NDAA, Lift the restrictions that force the economy overseas, bring back the electric car, round up the criminals in government and put them in prison. Get the softkill out of our food, water, and medicine.

And better, this is something we all can do, without guns. Just go to your state capital on the 4th of July and demand this of our governors. Our nation should be ran by us, not by a forign banking cartell through a farce presidency executive branch.

Opinion statement:

Baying at the moon, exercise in futility, doing nothing but making noise.
 

WalkingWolf

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march on each state capital to demand that the governors of these 50 states immediately initiate the process of an orderly dissolution of the federal government through secession and reclamation of federally held property.

Yes, that seems reasonable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL0yoH0oswo

No more income tax, end the federal reserve, get rid of DHS and the TSA. Repeal NDAA, Lift the restrictions that force the economy overseas, bring back the electric car, round up the criminals in government and put them in prison. Get the softkill out of our food, water, and medicine.

And better, this is something we all can do, without guns. Just go to your state capital on the 4th of July and demand this of our governors. Our nation should be ran by us, not by a forign banking cartell through a farce presidency executive branch.
Something that baffles me~~why should a person wait until a holiday to voice their opinion of tyranny? Flood their office with emails, phone calls, letters, do it daily, encourage others to do it. Be the squeaky wheel. BTW we elected the farce president, not a cartell.
 

Tucker6900

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Something that baffles me~~why should a person wait until a holiday to voice their opinion of tyranny? Flood their office with emails, phone calls, letters, do it daily, encourage others to do it. Be the squeaky wheel. BTW we elected the farce president, not a cartell.

+1.

Squeaky wheels get the most grease.

This march may not be due to the constitution, but it is in defense of it, and as always, I am in full support of it.
 
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Freedom First

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Opinion statement:

Baying at the moon, exercise in futility, doing nothing but making noise.

Here's what that baying sounds like to me...

...Flood their office with emails, phone calls, letters, do it daily, encourage others to do it. Be the squeaky wheel...

Honestly sirs, does this work? How much more Freedom do you have as a result of your emails, calls, faxes, protests over past decades? Oh, OC is more accepted. So what. That fixes nothing.

Like I said earlier, having OCDO IS NOT FREEDOM, it's protesting your bondage. Not needing an OCDO IS FREEDOM.

Do you sincerely think they, these so-called representatives, are listening? You are a buzzing fly, a squeaky hinge, a simple annoyance to be endured until it can be fixed. You are not heard as a man, or even a citizen. They see you as merely an annoying obstruction to their plans.

I will not be marching. I don't agree with the marcher's plans but I also acknowledge that there's not a damn thing any of us can do to stop them. So, if I/we cannot stop them, then what?

You guys are arguing about a distraction. Focus on July 5th, the day when America wakes up to see what has happened. Plan for that. Be constructive. Prepare.
 

Tucker6900

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It seems to be getting harder to find. If I were a conspiracy theorist...

Anyway, here is a link to a page with the youtube video embedded: http://samuel-warde.com/2013/05/alex-jones-interviews-libertarian-radio-host/

Why this video is hard to find on youtube itself is beyond me, but I am not wearing my tinfoil, and a certain radio show host may be blocking my mental ability to search youtube.


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Not really that hard if you know how to use the internet.....

Adam V The Man

And the basic definition of conspiracy theories is something that is not yet proven, but questioned. You can continue this charade of acting like you dont see it, but that doesnt mean it isnt there. The reasons for this event are bountiful, while the reasons not are few. Waiting around to see what happens will only put us farther in the hole.
 
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