legal question about schools

[matt2636]

i understand you cant carry at or around a school. but my girlfriend is a teacher (not gunna say where) and this is my pickle. where she teaches isnt "school grounds" or funded by tax dollars but her teaching obliously is. so basically the building she teaches in isnt funded by tax dollars or considered a school but shes a teacher and her teaching is funded by taxes. so am i allowed to carry in this building if i were to visit her there for lunch or something? which would bring up another question of school events happening off of school grounds. if you happen to be out and about (carrying) and theres this school event going on at the mall or something. do you have to be 3000 feet away from the school event? cause to me the two situations seem somewhat the same. any input?

 

[Darkshadow62988]

First off, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. If you want legal advice, seek an attorney.

I'm gonna break this down so I can try to answer it more thoroughly.

i understand you cant carry at or around a school.

Assuming you have a permit, you can carry around a school as you please. 724.4A, the weapons free zone provision, merely doubles the fine for a public offense involving a firearm within 1000ft of a school or public park. It does not prohibit the carry of a firearm within the so-called Weapons Free Zone.

the building she teaches in isnt funded by tax dollars or considered a school

If you were sure it wasn't considered a school you wouldn't be asking this question. What grade levels are we talking about? Pre-K, K-12, Post Secondary? Is the building she teaches at being leased by the school for instructional purposes? That would make it a school.

so am i allowed to carry in this building if i were to visit her there for lunch or something?

That depends on whether the location is considered a school. If it is there is an exception for 724.4B for "A person who has been specifically authorized by the school to go armed, carry, or transport a firearm on the school grounds, including for purposes of conducting an instructional program regarding firearms." Good luck with that. If it isn't then private property rights still apply. If someone asks you to leave, you must, but if you take "concealed means concealed" seriously, it wouldn't be a problem.

school events happening off of school grounds. if you happen to be out and about (carrying) and theres this school event going on at the mall or something. do you have to be 3000 feet away from the school event?

This one is interesting. A mall, literally, being a place that is open to the public and with an implied invitation to the public would be a hard argument to press it was a school, even if there is a school related event going on at the time. Other locations, such as a football stadium or a baseball field used and shared by a school district/area education agency would most likely fall under the definition of a school.


Find out who signs your gf's paychecks or who her boss is. Find out what authorizes their position(assuming it's public). That should give you a good starting point to find out what you need to know. As of right now, I'd say keep your gun case in your vehicle, park off the grounds of the location, unload and encase it so that you are under exceptions e/f:

A person who for any lawful purpose carries an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other dangerous weapon inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person.

A person who for any lawful purpose carries or transports an unloaded pistol or revolver in a vehicle inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person or inside a cargo or luggage compartment where the pistol or revolver will not be readily accessible to any person riding in the vehicle or common carrier.

It is a Class D Felony to carry on the grounds of a school in violation of 724.4B. You will want to make darned sure that it is not a school or that you have permission before risking anything.

 

[matt2636]

First off, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. If you want legal advice, seek an attorney.

I'm gonna break this down so I can try to answer it more thoroughly.



Assuming you have a permit, you can carry around a school as you please. 724.4A, the weapons free zone provision, merely doubles the fine for a public offense involving a firearm within 1000ft of a school or public park. It does not prohibit the carry of a firearm within the so-called Weapons Free Zone.



If you were sure it wasn't considered a school you wouldn't be asking this question. What grade levels are we talking about? Pre-K, K-12, Post Secondary? Is the building she teaches at being leased by the school for instructional purposes? That would make it a school.




That depends on whether the location is considered a school. If it is there is an exception for 724.4B for "A person who has been specifically authorized by the school to go armed, carry, or transport a firearm on the school grounds, including for purposes of conducting an instructional program regarding firearms." Good luck with that. If it isn't then private property rights still apply. If someone asks you to leave, you must, but if you take "concealed means concealed" seriously, it wouldn't be a problem.




This one is interesting. A mall, literally, being a place that is open to the public and with an implied invitation to the public would be a hard argument to press it was a school, even if there is a school related event going on at the time. Other locations, such as a football stadium or a baseball field used and shared by a school district/area education agency would most likely fall under the definition of a school.


Find out who signs your gf's paychecks or who her boss is. Find out what authorizes their position(assuming it's public). That should give you a good starting point to find out what you need to know. As of right now, I'd say keep your gun case in your vehicle, park off the grounds of the location, unload and encase it so that you are under exceptions e/f:




It is a Class D Felony to carry on the grounds of a school in violation of 724.4B. You will want to make darned sure that it is not a school or that you have permission before risking anything.

basically they dont have room for her in a actual school so they put them in this day care building. it sounds like the room is "leased" but the building isnt cause its still ran as a day care. thats how i understand it from her.

 

[hermannr]

I'm not from Iowa, but I have a couple ideas where you could look. Start with your AG office and look for "opinions". The opinions are not legaly binding as if it was an appeals judge,,, but remember, the AG IS the state's top lawyer . You cannot ask a question of the AG, but members of your legislature and other government entities can. I'm sure the question on what is/or/is not to be considered "school grounds" has had a question asked and a formal opinion written. Go look and see what has allready been written on the subject.

Here in WA we can (very specific) be armed, if we have a CPL, if we are there for the purpose of, to "drop off or pick up" at a school. WA also has a very specific definition of what is a "school" and what is not also (k-12),,, so that would be the second place to look, in the legislative definitions section.

 

[amaixner]

I'm not from Iowa, but I have a couple ideas where you could look. Start with your AG office and look for "opinions". The opinions are not legaly binding as if it was an appeals judge,,, but remember, the AG IS the state's top lawyer . You cannot ask a question of the AG, but members of your legislature and other government entities can. I'm sure the question on what is/or/is not to be considered "school grounds" has had a question asked and a formal opinion written.

Unfortunately this doesn't work in Iowa. Our AG-for-life (going on 20 years now?) is somewhat to the right of Fienstein and to the left of Giuliani when it comes to guns. He goes out of his way to walk all over gun rights here.

 

[hermannr]

Unfortunately this doesn't work in Iowa. Our AG-for-life (going on 20 years now?) is somewhat to the right of Fienstein and to the left of Giuliani when it comes to guns. He goes out of his way to walk all over gun rights here.

Doesn't matter, you need to know how "school" is understood in your state legal terms, whether you like the opinion or not...it will be the opinion that will be enforced until some appellate court overturns the opinion, or not.

I realize that your AG may misrepresent the legislative intent, but that is what you have to go on right now, unless you would like to risk a court date?????

 

[amaixner]

Doesn't matter, you need to know how "school" is understood in your state legal terms, whether you like the opinion or not...it will be the opinion that will be enforced until some appellate court overturns the opinion, or not.

I realize that your AG may misrepresent the legislative intent, but that is what you have to go on right now, unless you would like to risk a court date?????

I understand what you mean. As there is currently no opinion, and we are 99.98% sure that if an opinion were forced from the current AG it would use any and all possible legal wrangling and misinterpretations to go against gun rights, we feel that we are better off not having one.

If you believe differently you are welcome to put forth the effort to try and get an opinion published.

 

[matt2636]

I understand what you mean. As there is currently no opinion, and we are 99.98% sure that if an opinion were forced from the current AG it would use any and all possible legal wrangling and misinterpretations to go against gun rights, we feel that we are better off not having one.

If you believe differently you are welcome to put forth the effort to try and get an opinion published.

so i guess either way you are screw by the way the law is written. with so many gray areas you would think some of these lawyers or judges would step in and fix it instead of landing people with nothing but good intentions in jail.

 

[mrjam2jab]

Doesn't matter, you need to know how "school" is understood in your state legal terms, whether you like the opinion or not...it will be the opinion that will be enforced until some appellate court overturns the opinion, or not.

I realize that your AG may misrepresent the legislative intent, but that is what you have to go on right now, unless you would like to risk a court date?????

School is defined by IA statute:

280.2 Definitions.

The term "public school" means any school directly supported in whole or in part by taxation. The term "nonpublic school" means any other school which is accredited or which uses licensed practitioners as instructors.

 

[Packin']

Federally you would be fine as long as you are in the state where your Pistol License is issued. Is there a state law against carrying on school property?