Last Night - Attempted Home Invasion at My House

[inbox485]

imported post

KBCraig wrote:

inbox485 wrote:

HankT and I don't see eye to eye often, but I can't think of any US jurisdiction where that is not murder. In fact there is a certain pharmacist headed for prison for just that. You shoot to halt an eminent capable threat. Finishing off a wounded intruder who is no longer able and intent on causing great bodily harm is murder.

Excessive force: 'When the entrance wound, exit wound, and hole in the floor all line up, that's one round too many."

(As stated by an old instructor of mine, explaining "shoot to stop", versus "shoot to kill".)

Not necessarily, but it will be harder to explain.

 

[HankT]

imported post

inbox485 wrote:

KBCraig wrote:

inbox485 wrote:

HankT and I don't see eye to eye often, but I can't think of any US jurisdiction where that is not murder. In fact there is a certain pharmacist headed for prison for just that. You shoot to halt an eminent capable threat. Finishing off a wounded intruder who is no longer able and intent on causing great bodily harm is murder.

Excessive force: 'When the entrance wound, exit wound, and hole in the floor all line up, that's one round too many."

(As stated by an old instructor of mine, explaining "shoot to stop", versus "shoot to kill".)

Not necessarily, but it will be harder to explain.

But usually.

The instructor's model is graphic, concise and memorable. People who go beyond their mission of self-defense and vault into the world of excessive force are always sorry they did so. Ask the pharmacist that inbox 485 mentions....

Remember:

Better to do the right thing....than to be tried by 12 or carried by 6.

 

[Bikenut]

imported post

HankT wrote:

-snip-

Better to do the right thing....than to be tried by 12 or carried by 6.

It is possible to do all of the "right" things and still be tried by 12 or carried by 6. There are no absolutes in life (other than the fact that, to date, every physically living thing eventually ceases to physically live) nor are there any trite sayings that always apply to everything that may happen in life.

 

[Grapeshot]

imported post

Bikenut wrote:

It is possible to do all of the "right" things and still be tried by 12 or carried by 6. There are no absolutes in life (other than the fact that, to date, every physically living thing eventually ceases to physically live) nor are there any trite sayings that always apply to everything that may happen in life.

Except IMHO maybe one: Live each day as if it were your last ...............and you wished to be satisfied with it.

Yata hey

 

[MSC 45ACP]

imported post

There are but TWO absolutes in life: Death and Taxes. Everyoneexpects the former. Not many of us expected the latter to get any worse...
Until the last 6 months. :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Bikenut]

imported post

MSC 45ACP wrote:

There are but TWO absolutes in life: Death and Taxes. Everyoneexpects the former. Not many of us expected the latter to get any worse...
Until the last 6 months. :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

I'm not so sure about the "taxes" part... although lately I've decided that NOT paying taxes is a prerequisite for a position in the current administration.

 

[useful_idiot]

imported post

Good work protecting your family. You did fine.

Maybe press charges for cracking the door frame. Vandalism. Destruction of property.

Maybe someone said this already...better to aim for the center of mass, not the head.

Stay Safe.

 

[nobucks]

imported post

Final update (I hope)...We got a check from the Marquette County Court for restitution paid by the door kicker for his extra curricular activities. Chalk one up for the Michigan Office of Probation.

 

[SteveInAshand]

imported post

SHOTGUN !!!. Were is the shotgun or AR type rife my friend ???

The 1911 is a "backup" weapon, or a grab it fast type weapon when your shotgun or rifle is not at hand.

Also, you never know if there is another creep or two coming through the other side doors or windows of your house while the main even ( distraction ) is happening at the door you are covering.

Your wife, why does / did she also not have a weapon in hand , every adult or child of responsible age in your family should have a weapon at hand to protect every one else in the family as a unit.

You could have been out in the garage working on the hot rod or other toy up late and could have been jumped by that a-hole while you under the hood and your being the only person with a gun makes you the only thing between them and the rest of your family.

Oh and the big dog, were is Cujo the wolf pitbull hybrid that sleep on your kid's bed ?


This is speculation on my part based on what you said or did not ad to the story and I am GLAD your situation was resolved peacefully.

 

[Packer fan]

imported post

SteveInAshand wrote:

SHOTGUN !!!. Were is the shotgun or AR type rife my friend ???

The 1911 is a "backup" weapon, or a grab it fast type weapon when your shotgun or rifle is not at hand.

Also, you never know if there is another creep or two coming through the other side doors or windows of your house while the main even ( distraction ) is happening at the door you are covering.

Your wife, why does / did she also not have a weapon in hand , every adult or child of responsible age in your family should have a weapon at hand to protect every one else in the family as a unit.

You could have been out in the garage working on the hot rod or other toy up late and could have been jumped by that a-hole while you under the hood and your being the only person with a gun makes you the only thing between them and the rest of your family.

Oh and the big dog, were is Cujo the wolf pitbull hybrid that sleep on your kid's bed ?


This is speculation on my part based on what you said or did not ad to the story and I am GLAD your situation was resolved peacefully.

I agree! based on what you said. My wife would have had her .40. I would have had mine and one of my kids would have the shot guns and or rifles. No way would I let them go down without a fight. One of my friends made a comet to me, "don't mess with the... family" I answered, "yep." I love my family to much not to teach them how to defend themselves I won't always be aroundand I work nights.
You teach a child to be safe in case of a fire; teach them to be safe in case of a break in.
You did do the right thing in not shooting.

As for the officers letting the drunk go, I worked in Sault Ste Marie at the downtown Burger King. We had a bar right across the street and the drunks would come in at all hours of the day and night. We would take bets at how long it would take for them to pass out. Once they passed out we would call the cops and they would come down wake them up and tell them to leave. We would watch the drunks get up and walk out the door and many times cross traffic and go right back into the bar.I never once saw any officer arrest anyone for public intoxication. I thought it was just what the police did in Sault Ste Marie.

 

[Bailenforcer]

imported post

nobucks wrote:

Here's the rest of the story.

An officer came up to the door and I let him in. He asked me where the gun was, and I told him I'd put it down on the table. Should I unload it? He asked if I had a CCW and when I told him yes, he said, "No, the gun is fine where it is."

He said the guy was drunk and then he took my statement. If they had anything to charge him with, would I like to press charges? Definitely. He told me that it would have been simpler for them if the guy had actually breached the door because then they could charge him with breaking and entering, but that right now he wasn't sure if he'd be charged. He went back out to the other three officers and they continued their interview. We went into a bedroom and opened a window and listened.

Officer: "Where are you staying?"
Bad Guy: "Illinois."
Officer: "You're not in Illinois anymore, Toto. Where are you staying right now?"
BG: "I'm going to Michigan."
Officer: "Where are you staying right now?"
BG: "I'm going to Michigan!"
Officer: "Congratulations! You made it! You're in Michigan! Where in Michigan are you staying?"
BG: "In Michigan!"

Finally, they found someone local on his cellphone and called him and told him the story and asked if he could stay there tonight.

What? No jail for this guy? At least drunk and disorderly? Nope. The officer came in and told me that, since he hadn't actually broken in, and he was so drunk he didn't even know what town he was in, they were going to take him to his friend's house and let him sleep it off. He apologized, but said that he was sorry they weren't going to be taking him to jail.

The officers all did Rock, Paper, Scissors to see who would take the SB to his buddy's house, and they all left.

Four squad cars just for our call. I thought that was cool.

They didn't take him in. I thought that sucked.

I'm glad I didn't have to shoot anyone tonight, but had that door cracked open, bullets would have flown through the opening at face level. I was surprised at how calm I stayed through the entire thing, considering that this is the first time I've ever pointed a gun at someone with the intention of shooting them. The whole situation went exactly as I had trained and wargamed in my mind previously, except for having the safety on.

After the police left, the entire family sat in the living room and we debriefed. My twelve-year-old son said, "I was a little scared. Well...I wasn't really scared." I told him that it was okay to be scared. He said, "I wasn't scared for us. I was kind of scared for him!"

No sleep for the rest of the night for me. Leah and Randi decided to sleep in the same room.

Interestingly, after the event I had dry mouth and I was very hungry and I couldn't stop talking. Other than that and not being able to sleep, there were no other effects from the adrenaline. No shakes like I'd had after my two car accidents.

Anyway, I was glad I had the gun, or we would have been sitting up with the phone, hoping the police could get here before he got in and hurt us. Instead, I was hoping they'd get here before he ran away.

The weirdest part about it was that when I went to bed at 2 AM I had the oddest, uncomfortable feeling that something bad was going to happen tonight.

Many prayers of thanks that it turned out with no deaths. The officers were wrong PERIOD! This was an attempted B&E or disorderly under the influence of alcohol. They legally should have arrested him and held him overnight to detox. That is State Law. He committed trespass and in court it could be attempt B&E pled to disorderly. The officers were lazy and didn't want paperwork. Here's a little advice. Next time if the officers waffle, tell them you will call your lawyer and press a law suit over their failure to protect your rights and do their SWORN Oath, and legal duty. I been there and when presented properly it works. There's mush more paperwork in being sued PERSONALLY.

 

[N6ATF]

imported post

nobucks wrote:

He told me that it would have been simpler for them if the guy had actually breached the door because then they could charge him with breaking and entering, but that right now he wasn't sure if he'd be charged.

So if he had breached and immediately suffered ballistic penetration of the cranium, a homicide (justifiable) investigation would have been simpler for them?

 

[Bailenforcer]

imported post

I took the added task of asking a few LE friends today and they were stunned as to why he was not arrested. All three said he would have been hooked up and booked in short notice for attempt B&E/Trespass. And one added MDOP if there was any damage done. (MDOP = Malicious destruction of Property)

 

[kasteer]

imported post

Glad your family was fine and that you didn't have to shoot anyone!

 

[jtallen1190]

imported post

Always keep one chambered and good job protecting your family. If that would have been the cops house they would have probably shot him through the door. That is fxxxed up that they didnt charge the guy with anything. I am just glad you and your family are safe.

 

[marshaul]

imported post

HankT wrote:

Carnivore wrote:

HankT wrote:

Carnivore wrote:

I was in a position of getting ready to blow a fellas eyebrows one time, all he needed to do is act on what he was telling me he intended to do by reaching inside my vehicle and grabbing me, it woulda been lights out, and one bloody headliner in my grand cherokee! and I would've probably missed work that night, but not any sleep.

What happened in your eyebrows  incident?

 

A friend of mine and his son were smallmouth fishing a river not far from me, and when they returned to their vehicle at sunset, my friend decided he would sit around a camp with 3 fellas that were camped on the gravelbar near the parking place.

His son called me just minutes before i was leaving for work on midnight shift and told me that he needed my help. I said sure Bubs what ya need, he proceeded to tell me how the evening unfolded to the point of his Dad getting drunk on whiskey with these 3 new aquaintances, and when the boy suggested cmon dad we better be getting home, I'll drive !

 well one of the adult men took the boy off to the side and told him you ain't going nowhere, your ole man is partying with us.. unbeknownst to the kids dad, since he was totally intoxicated, the other fella commenced to whoopin the boys ass. 

Move forward in time, while someone was keeping my drunk buddy occupied, another fella was over at the parking lot cleaning out my buddies truck.

Well the boy walked a long ways to the hiway and called me on his cell and I told him I'll be right there.

When I arrived and picked up the son, we went down to the river and there was his dad sitting on the ground beside his truck and a fella sitting inside the cab of my buddies truck rummaging around like he was looking in the floorboard on the pass. side. I pulled up beside the truck, and the fella inside the truck told me to leave, it's a private party. I told him I was here to pick up my friend and wasn't leaving without him, he steeped out of my friends truck and pointed out toward the hiway and said you will get the F--- out of here if I tell you to, I replied not until I get my friend in my jeep, so I told the son to go over and get his dad up and help him to my passenger side seat.

Evidently there was more in the truck that those fellas wanted to get their hands on, because this loudmouth tottood from the top of his skull to his beltline stepped right beside my door and said he'd f------ rip my throat out if I didn't leave, I warned him, DO NOT PUT ONE HAND INSIDE MY VEHICLE, this I'll rip your head off/you're a F------ Pus-- if you don't get out of your jeep right now went on for about 10 minutes or so right in my face at the drivers door and I repeated several times DO not put your hand inside my vehicle.. while the son was coaxing his father to the passenger side of my vehicle.

When the boy opened the pass. door to get ready for his dad to enter this Loudmouth leaned in across the passenger seat, and I met him right over the seat w/ a .44mag just an inch or so from his nose, he promptly leaned right back out of the vehicle, and told his buddies that we're now blocking the back of my vehicle to hurry up and get this fella in the jeep so he can get home.. The 9mm was in the seat between my legs, and the .44 mag was slid down between the seat and console the whole time until the loudmouth leaned into the passenger side. Then I made a believer out of him and all went smooth upon my exit drive out,, the fellas had been ramming their jeep brushguard on every corner of my friends truck, So the son was justified in being in fear for his dads safety, and I've known the Dad since we were kids, and the boy since he was born, and the kid is 19 now and I've always told him Bubs if you're in the right, and you need help, you can call me 24/7/365

What a mess!

Sounds like you mis-handled your part of it, though.

But nice of you to pass on the impromptu execution opportunity (IEO).

Fortunately, you got away with it your clumsy attempt at wannabe cop. 

I'll admit it Hank. This time you had me laughing. Quite a bit.

 

[nobucks]

imported post

SteveInAshand wrote:

SHOTGUN !!!. Were is the shotgun or AR type rife my friend ???

The 1911 is a "backup" weapon, or a grab it fast type weapon when your shotgun or rifle is not at hand.

Also, you never know if there is another creep or two coming through the other side doors or windows of your house while the main even ( distraction ) is happening at the door you are covering.

Your wife, why does / did she also not have a weapon in hand , every adult or child of responsible age in your family should have a weapon at hand to protect every one else in the family as a unit.

You could have been out in the garage working on the hot rod or other toy up late and could have been jumped by that a-hole while you under the hood and your being the only person with a gun makes you the only thing between them and the rest of your family.

Oh and the big dog, were is Cujo the wolf pitbull hybrid that sleep on your kid's bed ?


This is speculation on my part based on what you said or did not ad to the story and I am GLAD your situation was resolved peacefully.

Thanks again for the comments.

Cujo died in January, and hasn't yet been replaced.

There are houses all around mine, so a rifle, IMO, would have been too much. I think I mentioned this before, but the shotgun was locked up in the garage as my son had a sleepover with some other kids the weekend before, and I didn't want his friends getting into the guns. I hadn't moved it back into the house at the time.

The pistol is always with me. Had he made it in, and gone downstairs, I would have had to go find him, as my teenage daughter's room is downstairs. I'd rather not have any collateral damage if she were between me and him. Your opinion may be different, but, the pistol would still be my choice in that situation. She's away at school right now, though, so I would probably grab the shotgun if it were to happen again while she's away.

My wife was keeping an eye on the backyard while she was on the phone, so we had thought of that as well at the time.

 

[Packer fan]

imported post

I was not there it is just one man's opinion of what I would have done. You do not owe me an explanation. I have used this situation to teach my kids.

Thanks for sharing this story.

Just me again but I keep all my guns in my bedroom and just lock my bedroom door. I couldn't imagine what would have happened with all your son's friends in the house had that happened at the time of the sleep over.

 

[nobucks]

imported post

I'm glad you found it a useful teaching moment for your kids.

The handgun is always with me, then I don't have to worry about any unauthorized people getting hold of it. The shotgun is locked up in my room and is there for my wife to use as backup.

With four more boys sleeping in the basement it would have been more chaos, but they would have gone home with a good story.

 

[noname762]

I was just looking at the profile of Hank T.
His sidebar shows him to be in 'invisible mode'. Too bad he couldn't go to DISAPPEARED mode.
Considering how long he's been a member he hasn't got one single friend here. One has to wonder how many (few?) friends he has in real life?

I was going to send him a PM rather than lambast him here publicly. Then I thought...do I REALLY want to be the first to send him a message??
No. I don't. It might set some kind of precedent.
I wonder what happened to Hank T in his past to make him such an a** ***?