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It appears weapons are now banned in rest stops

Luther

New member
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
9
Location
Alabama
We have already carried past the signs and told them they are illegal, so now we seek legal action.
I like your ideas, however we also have 13a-11-59 to contend with as far a large group is concerned.


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Judge_Johnston

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
12
Location
Mobile, Al
Not Preemption

It not preemption as the State itself is doing it. Preemption prohibits cities and counties from passing laws which conflict with the general state firearms laws. The state law has a provision that a business owner can post such a sign, but who would have thought it would be the State on public property?

"A COVENANT NOT TO DEFEND
MYSELFE FROM FORCE,
BY FORCE, IS ALWAYES VOYD."



Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan, Reprinted From The Edition of 1651, Part 1, Chapter 14, pages 108-109.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,331
Location
Valhalla
It not preemption as the State itself is doing it. Preemption prohibits cities and counties from passing laws which conflict with the general state firearms laws. The state law has a provision that a business owner can post such a sign, but who would have thought it would be the State on public property?
As an agency/agent of the state, where is this authorization derived? Would seem to be the tail wagging the dog.
 

Judge_Johnston

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
12
Location
Mobile, Al
No Authority but Force

I don't think there is any legal authority. They just did it. Printed the signs and put them up and now take the position that they have the "right" to be there. Well a socket wrench solves that problem (not that I encourage that). If the Director has said they are not going to remove them the Gov. simply fires him and appoints a replacement who respects the law.
 

Luther

New member
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
9
Location
Alabama
They are in violation of 13a-11-75, as they are not a otherwise prohibited location. As such until the signs come down, it is perfectly legal to carry there, either openly or concealed with permit.


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eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,525
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
We have already carried past the signs and told them they are illegal, so now we seek legal action.
I like your ideas, however we also have 13a-11-59 to contend with as far a large group is concerned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't do it as a demonstration. Just do it. No signs. No congregation. Just folks (in fair numbers) exercising their Rights.
 

Judge_Johnston

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
12
Location
Mobile, Al
2013 Alabama Firearms Act

This is the relevant portion of the 2013 Alabama Firearm Act: (I don't see rest stop)

26 Section 6. (a) In addition to any other place
27 limited or prohibited by state or federal law, a person,

1 including a person with a permit issued under Section
2 13A-11-75(a)(1) or recognized under Section 13A-11-85, Code of
3 Alabama 1975, may not knowingly possess or carry a firearm in
4 any of the following places without the express permission of
5 a person or entity with authority over the premises:
6 (1) Inside the building of a police, sheriff, or
7 highway patrol station.
8 (2) Inside or on the premises of a prison, jail,
9 halfway house, community corrections facility, or other
10 detention facility for those who have been charged with or
11 convicted of a criminal or juvenile offense.
12 (3) Inside or on the premises of a facility which
13 provides inpatient or custodial care of those with
14 psychiatric, mental, or emotional disorders.
15 (4) Inside a courthouse, courthouse annex, a
16 building in which a District Attorney's office is located, or
17 a building in which a county commission or city council is
18 currently having a regularly scheduled or specially called
19 meeting.
20 (5) Inside any facility hosting an athletic event
21 not related to or involving firearms which is sponsored by a
22 private or public elementary or secondary school or any
23 private or public institution of postsecondary education,
24 unless the person has a permit issued under Section
25 13A-11-75(a)(1) or recognized under Section 13A-11-85.
26 (6) Inside any facility hosting a professional
27 athletic event not related to or involving firearms, unless

1 the person has a permit issued under Section 13A-11-75(a)(1)
2 or recognized under Section 13A-11-85.
3 (b) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection
4 (a), a person, including a person with a permit issued under
5 Section 13A-11-75(a)(1) or recognized under Section 13A-11-85,
6 Code of Alabama 1975, may not, without the express permission
7 of a person or entity with authority over the premises,
8 knowingly possess or carry a firearm inside any building or
9 facility to which access of unauthorized persons and
10 prohibited articles is limited during normal hours of
11 operation by the continuous posting of guards and the use of
12 other security features, including, but not limited to,
13 magnetometers, key cards, biometric screening devices, or
14 turnstiles or other physical barriers.
15 (c) The person or entity with authority over the
16 premises set forth in subsections (a)(1)-(6) and subsection
17 (b) shall place a notice at the public entrances of such
18 premises or buildings alerting those entering that firearms
19 are prohibited.
 

Attachments

  • Alabama Firearms Bill.pdf
    87.9 KB · Views: 93

49er

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2008
Messages
156
Location
Central Alabama
The bill has been incorporated in to the Code of Alabama 1975 now Judge Rusty. It's a little easier to read now that has been, but it's still a complicated mess. Not my idea of what "excepted out of the general powers of government" means:





Section 13A-11-61.2
Possession of firearms in certain places.

(a) In addition to any other place limited or prohibited by state or federal law, a person, including a person with a permit issued under Section 13A-11-75(a)(1) or recognized under Section 13A-11-85, may not knowingly possess or carry a firearm in any of the following places without the express permission of a person or entity with authority over the premises:

(1) Inside the building of a police, sheriff, or highway patrol station.

(2) Inside or on the premises of a prison, jail, halfway house, community corrections facility, or other detention facility for those who have been charged with or convicted of a criminal or juvenile offense.

(3) Inside or on the premises of a facility which provides inpatient or custodial care of those with psychiatric, mental, or emotional disorders.

(4) Inside a courthouse, courthouse annex, a building in which a District Attorney's office is located, or a building in which a county commission or city council is currently having a regularly scheduled or specially called meeting.

(5) Inside any facility hosting an athletic event not related to or involving firearms which is sponsored by a private or public elementary or secondary school or any private or public institution of postsecondary education, unless the person has a permit issued under Section 13A-11-75(a)(1) or recognized under Section 13A-11-85.

(6) Inside any facility hosting a professional athletic event not related to or involving firearms, unless the person has a permit issued under Section 13A-11-75(a)(1) or recognized under Section 13A-11-85.

(b) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a), a person, including a person with a permit issued under Section 13A-11-75(a)(1) or recognized under Section 13A-11-85, may not, without the express permission of a person or entity with authority over the premises, knowingly possess or carry a firearm inside any building or facility to which access of unauthorized persons and prohibited articles is limited during normal hours of operation by the continuous posting of guards and the use of other security features, including, but not limited to, magnetometers, key cards, biometric screening devices, or turnstiles or other physical barriers.

(c) The person or entity with authority over the premises set forth in subsections (a)(1)-(6) and subsection (b) shall place a notice at the public entrances of such premises or buildings alerting those entering that firearms are prohibited.

(d) Except as provided in subsections (a)(5) and (a)(6), any firearm on the premises of any facility set forth in subsection (a)(1), or subsections (a)(4)-(6), or subsection (b) must be kept from ordinary observation and locked within a compartment or in the interior of the person's motor vehicle or in a compartment or container securely affixed to the motor vehicle.

(e) A violation of subsections (a) or (d) is a Class C misdemeanor.

(f) This section shall not prohibit any person from possessing a firearm within the person's residence or during ingress or egress thereto.

(g) Prohibitions regarding the carrying of a firearm under this section shall not apply to law enforcement officers engaged in the lawful execution of their official duties.

(h) Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize the carrying or possession of a firearm where prohibited by federal law.

(Act 2013-283, §6.)



"NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" signs are as effective for safety purposes as the following sign:


http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e46/ol_49er/NoCriminals_zps1fc7baf1.jpg


... or this sign for birth control:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e46/ol_49er/Nochildren_zpsb87db777.png
 
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Judge_Johnston

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
12
Location
Mobile, Al
It is a mess

I admit it is a mess. The only good thing it did was change Alabama to a Shall Issue state and slightly helped open carry. But for example, they meant to ban firearms in mental hospital, but it has the effect of banning them in all hospitals since all hospitals, at least in the short term, treat mental patients.

But how they think this gives them the right to ban weapons at rest stops is amazing. In the old days, my College Republican groups would have just cleaned up the rest stop and issue solved.
 

Judge_Johnston

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
12
Location
Mobile, Al
Good Judges and a Good Constitution

When we had good judges on the courts:

"The ultimate touchstone of constitutionality is the Constitution itself and not what we (the Court) have said about it." Graves v. O'Keefe, 306 U.S. 466, 491-92 (1939) (Frankfurter, J., concurring).

The Alabama Constitution:

That the sole object and only legitimate end of government is to protect the citizen in the enjoyment of life, liberty, and property, and when the government assumes other functions it is usurpation and oppression.
Article I, Section 35 Alabama Constitution of 1901
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,525
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I admit it is a mess. The only good thing it did was change Alabama to a Shall Issue state and slightly helped open carry. But for example, they meant to ban firearms in mental hospital, but it has the effect of banning them in all hospitals since all hospitals, at least in the short term, treat mental patients.

But how they think this gives them the right to ban weapons at rest stops is amazing. In the old days, my College Republican groups would have just cleaned up the rest stop and issue solved.

The Transportation Director was adamant that what he did was legal, that he had the authority to do it. He was an ******* throughout the call.

Anyone else call him? His phone should be blowing up!
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,223
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
I may travel thru that area some day. I will probably need to use a rest stop because I am old. This now pertains directly to me too.
Does anyone have that email handy, I think I find the need to reply to mr transportation.

I think it can be attributed to the new "I have power, therefore I am king" attitude that seems to be so popular.
 

Judge_Johnston

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
12
Location
Mobile, Al
All Republican State---Signs Remain

Keep in mind, Alabama has a: 1. Republican governor. 2. Republican Legislature. 3. Republican Supreme Court. 4. Republican Congressional delegation.

And yet these signs remain. First, it shows those in power are not always responsive to the voters. Second Republicans are not always faithful to the 2nd Amendment, but better than democrats.






Hobbes (2).jpg
 
Last edited:

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,525
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Keep in mind, Alabama has a: 1. Republican governor. 2. Republican Legislature. 3. Republican Supreme Court. 4. Republican Congressional delegation.

And yet these signs remain. First, it shows those in power are not always responsive to the voters. Second Republicans are not always faithful to the 2nd Amendment, but better than democrats.






View attachment 11188

This seems to be the actions of a single power-hungry man. I put this in the transportation guy--and he is being an absolute ass about it. However, I must say that the governor's office has not returned my call regarding the signs.


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<o>
 

49er

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2008
Messages
156
Location
Central Alabama
I'm finding the attitude typical of the republican appointees that have sworn to support our constitutions.

I filed a petition with the Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources to repeal the following rule, and he defends it in the same arrogant manner as the DOT commissioner:

220-4-.15 Regulation Of Certain Conduct On Lands Under State
Lands Division Jurisdiction.

(1) Except as otherwise authorized in writing by the
Director of the State Lands Division, it shall be unlawful on any
state-owned lands under the jurisdiction of the State Lands
Division:

(a) To hunt, trap, use dogs, possess firearms, traps,
or bow and arrow, without a proper license.

(b) For any person to carry in or on a vehicle, any of
the following: any firearms (including pistols) with ammunition
in the magazine, breech or clip attached to firearms, or black
powder weapons with primer, cap or flash powder in place, or
cocked crossbows...

... Author: N. Gunter Guy, Jr.
Statutory Authority: Code of Ala. 1975, §9-2-12.
History: New Rule: Filed May 22, 2007; effective June 26, 2007.
Amended: Filed October 12, 2011; effective November 16, 2011.
PENALTY: As provided by law.
 
Last edited:

49er

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2008
Messages
156
Location
Central Alabama
http://www.alabamaadministrativecode.state.al.us/docs/dot/450-1-2.pdf







450-1-2-.01 Petition For Adoption, Amendment Or Repealer Of Rules.
(1) Any interested person may petition the Alabama Department of Transportation requesting the adoption, amendment or repeal of a rule.
(2) A petition shall adhere to the form described below. Petitions not in substantial compliance with the prescribed form shall be returned to the petitioner for correction.
(a) The 60-day time limit described in Code of Ala. 1975, §41-22-8, shall start with the receipt of the petition, in proper form, by the Department.
(b) The petition shall be on white paper, 8 1/2" x 11" in size, with no reverse side entries. The original and three legible copies shall be filed with the Department.
Chapter 450-1-2 Transportation
Supp. 6/30/13 1-2-2
(c) The petition shall be delivered by personal
service or First Class Mail to:
ALABAMA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
ATTN: ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURE SECRETARY
LEGAL DIVISION
ROOM 147
1409 COLISEUM BOULEVARD
MONTGOMERY, AL 36110
(d) The petition shall be set out in numbered
paragraphs as follows:
1. Petitioner's name:
2. The full address of the petitioner:
3. The petitioner's telephone number:
4. Action requested (adoption of the proposed rule,
amendment of a rule or repeal of a rule):
5. (In the case of a petition for adoption) A concise
statement of the proposed rule in rule form:
6. A statement of the reasons for the above action:
(3) A general statement concerning rules must not be
accepted as a petition for adoption, amendment or repeal of a
rule.
(4) More than one petition may be submitted at any
given time, but each must conform to the above requirements. No
more than one request for either the adoption, amendment or
repeal of a single rule shall be contained in each petition.
(5) The Department, upon receipt of a petition, shall
take the following action:
1. Receipt of petition shall be recorded;
2. Petitions not in reasonable compliance with this
rule shall be promptly returned to the petitioner with
modifications or additional information required to make the
petition comply with this rule indicated;
3. Receipt of petition shall be acknowledged to the
petitioner; and
4. The disposition of petitions for rule making shall be determined by the Department.
(6) The Department, in determining the disposition of the petition, may request written memoranda from personnel within the Department, input from interested persons outside the Department, or an oral presentation by the petitioner elaborating upon the reasons for the requested rule activity. The Department may conduct a hearing in order to receive oral presentations and evidence.
(7) Within 60 days after submission of a petition, the Department either shall deny the petition in writing on the merits, stating the reasons for the denial, or initiate rule making proceedings in accordance with Code of Ala. 1975, §41-22-5.
Author: Jim R. Ippolito, Jr., Chief Counsel
Statutory Authority: Code of Ala. 1975, §23-1-59.
History: Filed September 30, 1982. Amended: Filed May 17, 2013; effective June 21, 2013.
450-
 
Last edited:

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,525
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I'm finding the attitude typical of the republican appointees that have sworn to support our constitutions.

I filed a petition with the Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources to repeal the following rule, and he defends it in the same arrogant manner as the DOT commissioner:

220-4-.15 Regulation Of Certain Conduct On Lands Under State
Lands Division Jurisdiction.

(1) Except as otherwise authorized in writing by the
Director of the State Lands Division, it shall be unlawful on any
state-owned lands under the jurisdiction of the State Lands
Division:

(a) To hunt, trap, use dogs, possess firearms, traps,
or bow and arrow, without a proper license.

(b) For any person to carry in or on a vehicle, any of
the following: any firearms (including pistols) with ammunition
in the magazine, breech or clip attached to firearms, or black
powder weapons with primer, cap or flash powder in place, or
cocked crossbows...

... Author: N. Gunter Guy, Jr.
Statutory Authority: Code of Ala. 1975, §9-2-12.
History: New Rule: Filed May 22, 2007; effective June 26, 2007.
Amended: Filed October 12, 2011; effective November 16, 2011.
PENALTY: As provided by law.

Does 9-2-12 provide the statutory authority they claim it does?
 
Last edited:
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